SALADA/VladFL: Slap on the wrist. - STRICTLY ESSENDON SUPPORTERS ONLY

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LN Degenerate said:
The worst penalty in the game's history is a "small slap"?
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Like I said, cannot understand how people are viewing this as "oh thank god! Quick! Take the deal!" They've altered personnel suspensions slightly, and taken picks off the table.
THIS IS NOT A GOOD OUTCOME.
 
I cannot fathom how any talk of stripping draft picks or points can happen when we are being punished purely on governance. We have already lost many senior people at essendon who were at least partially responsible for governance at our club. Namely our CEO and chairman.

Hird getting suspended for 6 months, corcoran 12 months and a fine for Reid (though would need to be adequately explained how he is culpable) + Thompson and a fine for the club should be the only sanctions on the table for governance alone.
 

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Yeah the only club to ever be stripped of points.

I nearlly broke the radio this morning people banging on about essendon propaganda. WHAT POSITIVE NEWS HAS COME OUT? Everyone just toeing the line, making sure they don't annoy the AFL. * the AFL, i Iove the game not this corrupt pathetic excuse for an organization.

The only thing I have learnt out of this is that this society we live in is full of s**t people. The powerful keep abusing their power an everyone else suffers. I'll be canceling by foxtel subscription and after this season I'll be gone from bigfooty. * the AFL and everyone of its clubs I hope they all burn.
 
Catch me up guys where do we sit this morning? Does it look like we are about to cut a BS deal?
 
simoro1 said:
Catch me up guys where do we sit this morning? Does it look like we are about to cut a BS deal?
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Couple of "reports" (I use the term very loosely) looking like we are in talks to cut a deal, Cerebus from twitter last night who has apparently been pretty spot on was hinting at we're going back to court.

In reference to the rumored deal:
HTB/Public are furious because we aren't getting punished hard enough (t3h DrugZZ!!!!)
Some bombers are willing to take just to end.
Others are absolutely furious because they very wrongly don't think we should be punished.


No official word from anyone
 
Who cares what the foamers think. They are going to be crying that we "got off lightly" when the penalties come out. Just s**t stir them when the penalties are given out instead of trying to reason with them, it will feel better seeing them more upset about the penalties than we will be
 
kfc1 said:
What a ******* gutless flog Nick McKenzie is. You wouldn't think this was important to mention in his interview article from tonight? Which, by the way, is not a verbatim interview and contains a lot of running commentary from Mc*******flogkenzie.

Great work picking this up mate, I had completely forgotten about it. Can't let the media's selective reporting divide and conquer now, after all this time.
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Furthermore, it is obvious from his discriptions of what he wants from the drug as to what it actually is.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2657249

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_thymosins#Biological_activities_of_thymosin_.CE.B24
 
JDavey said:
Couple of "reports" (I use the term very loosely) looking like we are in talks to cut a deal, Cerebus from twitter last night who has apparently been pretty spot on was hinting at we're going back to court.

In reference to the rumored deal:
HTB/Public are furious because we aren't getting punished hard enough (t3h DrugZZ!!!!)
Some bombers are willing to take just to end.
Others are absolutely furious because they very wrongly don't think we should be punished.


No official word from anyone
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Well we've come this far, i wouldn't say its logical for the club to back down now. Unless the AFL has a big bargaining chip...
 

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cwootton said:
I strongly dislike any deal that puts pressure on individuals to take a bullet for others.

Penalties for the club for its charge should not be affected by how other charges proceed.
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12 months for Hird and points? Tell the AFL to * off. In those exact words.

I'd only accept it if Demetriou was also suspended for 12 months.
 
Mercurial89 said:
Yeah the only club to ever be stripped of points.

I nearlly broke the radio this morning people banging on about essendon propaganda. WHAT POSITIVE NEWS HAS COME OUT? Everyone just toeing the line, making sure they don't annoy the AFL. **** the AFL, i Iove the game not this corrupt pathetic excuse for an organization.

The only thing I have learnt out of this is that this society we live in is full of s**t people. The powerful keep abusing their power an everyone else suffers. I'll be canceling by foxtel subscription and after this season I'll be gone from bigfooty. **** the AFL and everyone of its clubs I hope they all burn.
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Settle down. I trust the Board to negotiate the best outcome possible. Let's see what that outcome is before mourning. No doubt it'll be a s**t outcome, but I find that a result that makes both sides unhappy is often in the right ballpark.
 
What's this bullahit about allowing our players to be injected of unknown substance?

* sake, shouldn't the players be aware of that? They're grown men for * sakes. If they took the injections, it was under their consent and to get the consent, they would have known the drug first before injecting. Dank and Robinson even did that whole presentation about what drugs they were going to take but yet it's unknown?

The truth is out there. I hope the club destroys Robinson in court.
 
The club has to fight this. As far as I can tell.. this was the same crappy deal that has been on the table for the whole year.. for the whole year you have told ppl you are fighting because 'the truth' is better than the fiction.

Now you look like giving in.. so all that 'fiction' was the truth? Heaven help our club.
 
All we where trying to do was be on a level playing field with the bigger clubs in the league, when we where first "warned" by Gilligan, why where we not monitored, why was there not due dilgence from AFL to make sure the program was clean and within all rules, because there was no warning, the program was given the ok, this is where it stems from and gilligan knows he ****ed up .
We are one of the founding clubs, and we are not going to lie over and cop this with out exposing the corruption that is going on, blind freddy can see whats going on, sorry take that back, no ill will to anyone who is blind, but we are just supporters who pay good money to help keep our club going from year to year, why should we just be the sheep that follows the will of this corrupt organization they call the AFL, why do we sit here typing, when we can be out there demonstrating our thoughts, lets go down to AFL house with our placards our colors and show them we are not happy with the way they dictate to there member clubs, seriously had enough of just sitting here and waiting, want to help need to help in some way.
 
mxett said:
Fair points. Problem is the consents mention thymosin, Charters supplied Dank with thymosin b4, and the instructions for use on the consents described Charters recommended method for administering thymosin b4.
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Pardon my ignorance. Trying to understand the evidence. Outside Charter's word, what evidence of TB4 is there? I believe there is some but would like to weigh it up removing Charter from the picture.
 
I feel like this new 'that's a good deal let's take it' mentality that people seem to be adopting is precisely what the afl was hoping to elicit with these latest supposedly rock solid drug allegations.

They offer a deal that is universally regarded by Essendon fans as extremely heavy handed, then put out suggestions from their mouthpiece Fairfax that there is incontrovertible evidence of illicit substance use. Then they proceed to offer us much the same deal as previously, but know that with this new 'evidence' coming to light, fans are more than likely to favour the deal, consider it a win for the club and even offer demetriou a rimjob for his leniency and generosity. They realise Little is probably more likely to be influenced by a large portion of Essendon shareholders being for the deal, so if they convince us they go a fair way to convincing the board.

Brilliantly underhanded and disgusting. Vlad would make a fine politician.
 
rines said:
With utmost respect, as I have really enjoyed our shared input on this board and you make so many incredibly balanced and logical points, I would disagree with this assessment.

It has been my personal and professional experience that fights 'of this nature' are always fought in the papers (media) or in the court room (legal).

Do you honestly think that if Caro had decided that 'Vlad has to go' because of all the crap that has happened.. or she had started laying into ASADA three months ago, Gerard Whately style.. that we would be looking at the punishments we are?

The AFL manipulate the media.. but the media also manipulate the public independent of that as well.. The AFL know that IF they do not 'punish us' enough to satisfy the foamers in the media.. then the spotlight will turn on them and their part in this sorry saga.

So yeah.. I think this fight is all about the papers and the court room. Hope we can respectfully agree to disagree on this one. :thumbsu::)
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I think we are talking past each other here. We did fight, and we probably won, although not without cost (those charges hurt our brand a lot). Now the fight is in private, just because we can't see it doesn't mean it isn't every bit as heated as the fight in the papers this week. What we want to get is a punishment that matches what we'd reasonably expect to result if we took court action. If the AFL is prepared to offer that then we have won. As fans we might moan about losing points but for the club they can be a great bargaining chip, by including points in the penalty we can negotiate to not lose any picks, or reduce the fine, and maybe a couple of months off everyone's suspension. In return the AFL get an 'unprecedented' punishment that the media will love.

When the club says they want the best possible result, that does not mean they will settle for nothing less than full exoneration. This was always going to be s**t but they are trying to get the best result in terms of reputation, finance and future success.

Mercuri Rising said:
rines, Baker & McKenzie reported that Charter sourced (amongst other things) TB4 for Dank, both directly, and indirectly through materials provided to Alavi (the chemist). I can't find the other articles, but the dosages for "Thymosin" on the consent forms match the recommended dosages of TB4 that Charters suggested when asked by Dank. So yep, as we knew, as far as circumstantial evidence goes, it's bad. I just couldn't remember specifics before. : |
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For a while there was a lot of talk about matching the amount of thymosin bought off Charter with the amount given to the players. As this line of inquiry hasn't reemerged I'd say there was little to it.
 
Eleven 38 said:
Would anyone actually be surprised if the Age just added the B4 part into the interview with Dank??
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Would not be surprised. See my earlier post. If they just said Thymosin and added specifics in print.

I would like to think they wouldn't and think considering Dank has since said he has made a mistake in the interview suggests they didn't, but there have been some pretty dirty tactics so far that nothing would surprise me.
 
Rines I is a great poster and I respect her 100% - I love EFC just as much as her and the next fan. Her analysis for the saga is very accurate on the whole and many elements of it have stunk.

I agree with her that nearly all the accusations on the charge sheet are rubbish.

However if you reduce the charge sheet to one point only and that point being basically:

Administered supplements/drugs to players and unable to verify contents.

Then this charge alone is massive.

Forget the rest of the charges and focus on the mystery drug. If the club cannot explain this and be in a position to explain to general public and more importantly the players exactly what it is then this is massive.

I believe punishment of 2.5 mil fine, ineligible for finals 2013, Corcoran 12 months, Hird 6 months, Reid/Thompson cleared is a fair outcome for this one point on the charge sheet alone.

Right now we cannot even clarify if we cheated or not as the substance is a mystery. This is very poor.

The AFL agree that EFC and its management did not set out to cheat but poor management allowed a rogue element (Dank) to operate within the club.

No doubt Dank is the villain but those in charge of him should not have allowed this to progress to this situation. It is unrealistic to not expect some accountability for this.

ASADA have covered up their bungle of AOD9604 status and in time I think they will cop their whack. To me this is a separate issue now as the mystery drug is focus no.1.

The AFL have handled this very poorly from the get go allowing media allegations to be made public before 100% proof. It has left me very bitter but I will continue to support EFC 100% and look forward to season 2014 starting with a clean slate.

However if EFC can publicly declare with 100% certainty what was administered to players and it is legal then my attitude will back flip and its game on. I doubt this is going to happen though - why wait this long?
 
Oh and some people were wondering how Reid could have signed off on thymosin... The Age revealed it was actually Robinson who signed off on the thymosin forms; Reid had not part in it.

I wonder if this was one of the substances Reid was being stubborn on and Dank and Robinson decided to go behind his back.
 
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