Player Watch Sam McLarty (Delisted 2018)

[RedmanWasHere]

What is ESL?

I assume the SL stands for Sign Language.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I assume the SL stands for Sign Language.

No. Has to be second language. Therefore it should also be a much easier English.

 

[si tacuisses]

No. Has to be second language. Therefore it should also be a much easier English.

Yes.

Not just easier, though, also more focussed on actual "English" than most supposed "English" classes in this country.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Yes.

Not just easier, though, also more focussed on actual "English" than most supposed "English" classes in this country.

Surely this is not the English McLarty studied?! Given he had been studying in normal English classes for the entirety of his schooling. EDIT: He studied English as an Additional Language.

 

[McOrist]

Surely this is not the English McLarty studied?! Given he had been studying in normal English classes for the entirety of his schooling. EDIT: He studied English as an Additional Language.

Yep -ESL is now called 'EAL' -English as an Additional Language. Some people already have 2 or more languages under their belt before studying English, hence 'additional language' covers more people than 'second language'.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

And this discussion, as interesting as it is, helps Sams football ?

 

[Apex36]

And this discussion, as interesting as it is, helps Sams football ?

I don't think any discussions on Big Footy actually 'help' players' football, so what's your point?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Yep -ESL is now called 'EAL' -English as an Additional Language. Some people already have 2 or more languages under their belt before studying English, hence 'additional language' covers more people than 'second language'.

So it is a Mickey Mouse VCE course for anyone who is a native speaker like McLarty!? Makes no sense to me. I have taught a lot of ESL and would not have thought that someone who studied mainstream English would qualify to take EAL at VCE.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I don't think any discussions on Big Footy actually 'help' players' football, so what's your point?

I don't really make points, more like posts

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I don't really make points, more like posts

 

[pablo disco bar]

Enlighten me with your wisdom then Pablo.

Na it actually does....just yanking ya chain man

 

[sr36]

So it is a Mickey Mouse VCE course for anyone who is a native speaker like McLarty!? Makes no sense to me. I have taught a lot of ESL and would not have thought that someone who studied mainstream English would qualify to take EAL at VCE.

You qualify if you are hearing impaired.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

You qualify if you are hearing impaired.

But he had supposedly been in mainstream classes from primary school. He got his bionic ear at 2 therefore was able to hear right through his school years. Should not qualify for EAL. Should as sr36 stated earlier in the thread qualify for special consideration on normal VCE English if hearing impairment has in any way affected his oral comprehension.

I assume that his bionic ear allows him to hear fairly normally on the football field, despite crowd noise etc. If not, I am sure that we would not have recruited him to play at this level.

 

[sr36]

But he had supposedly been in mainstream classes from primary school. He got his bionic ear at 2 therefore was able to hear right through his school years. Should not qualify for EAL. Should as sr36 stated earlier in the thread qualify for special consideration on normal VCE English if hearing impairment has in any way affected his oral comprehension.

I assume that his bionic ear allows him to hear fairly normally on the football field, despite crowd noise etc. If not, I am sure that we would not have recruited him to play at this level.

I agree totally. Just pointing out why he was allowed to do the course.

 

[Apex36]

But he had supposedly been in mainstream classes from primary school. He got his bionic ear at 2 therefore was able to hear right through his school years. Should not qualify for EAL. Should as sr36 stated earlier in the thread qualify for special consideration on normal VCE English if hearing impairment has in any way affected his oral comprehension.

I assume that his bionic ear allows him to hear fairly normally on the football field, despite crowd noise etc. If not, I am sure that we would not have recruited him to play at this level.

So you're saying he should have qualified for Auslan as his second language? He speaks English and Auslan, so one of them has to be regarded as his primary and the other an additional language. Either way, he gains an advantage, just as any other kid brought up in a bilingual household would. At the end of the day does it really matter which of the languages he speaks, and took as subjects at school, is regarded as his primary or secondary?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

So you're saying he should have qualified for Auslan as his second language? He speaks English and Auslan, so one of them has to be regarded as his primary and the other an additional language. Either way, he gains an advantage, just as any other kid brought up in a bilingual household would. At the end of the day does it really matter which of the languages he speaks, and took as subjects at school, is regarded as his primary or secondary?

If he learned English from age 2 it is hardly a second language. It might be technically correct but it is an unfair advantage. He is obviously no slouch at reading or writing English given he got 40 in Political Studies.

 

[sr36]

So you're saying he should have qualified for Auslan as his second language? He speaks English and Auslan, so one of them has to be regarded as his primary and the other an additional language. Either way, he gains an advantage, just as any other kid brought up in a bilingual household would. At the end of the day does it really matter which of the languages he speaks, and took as subjects at school, is regarded as his primary or secondary?

That's not true. Heaps of students do two languages at first language level. They do this either because they want to, or more relevantly because they don't qualify to do EAL. The suggestion is that someone whose bionic ear seems to enable a high level of oral communication and has studied in Australian schools his whole life, shouldn't qualify to do EAL. Not disparaging Sam McLarty, just the system.

 

[Apex36]

If he learned English from age 2 it is hardly a second language. It might be technically correct but it is an unfair advantage. He is obviously no slouch at reading or writing English given he got 40 in Political Studies.

So Auslan is his second language?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

So Auslan is his second language?

They are both his 1st language. There is no mention of him doing auslan as a vce subject. We could argue for ever on this. Vive la difference.

 

[si tacuisses]

They are both his 1st language. There is no mention of him doing auslan as a vce subject. We could argue for ever on this. Vive la difference.

Really depends on the quality of the EAL/ESL/EFL course, IMO. And that can vary pretty widely. A good one could be more demanding than standard English classes at that level, considering how useless those mostly are. A bad or lazily-planned/taught one would be easier, but then there are similar loopholes for immigrant students doing Chinese, Italian, or similar as "another" language when they speak it at home.

My high school, back in the day, had a program of accelerated maths where you ended up doing year 12 methods in year 11, and then specialist the next. Clear advantage to anyone who did the latter, since they got all the knowledge from the other already under their belt. Unfair for anyone at a school that didn;t have that program that wanted to do both. Made it easy for me to do extra subjects and so pick which ones counted towards my entry score.

I sometimes think education would be better if we just stopped trying to pretend it's fair... I mean, we try to keep it as fair as possible, but the rich will always do better, the people with educated parents do better, and research even shows better looking people get better marks on average, even if you control for possible correlations between looks and intelligence. There are way bigger issues than a partially deaf kid getting to skip VCE English, and those aren;t ever going to be fixed.

Also you can get 40 in politics as a second-language speaker, for sure. check how many of the top scorers each year came to Aus as children and come from non-English-speaking homes--more than you'd think.

 

[Kirby]

This has turned into the most boring thread ever.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Really depends on the quality of the EAL/ESL/EFL course, IMO. And that can vary pretty widely. A good one could be more demanding than standard English classes at that level, considering how useless those mostly are. A bad or lazily-planned/taught one would be easier, but then there are similar loopholes for immigrant students doing Chinese, Italian, or similar as "another" language when they speak it at home.

My high school, back in the day, had a program of accelerated maths where you ended up doing year 12 methods in year 11, and then specialist the next. Clear advantage to anyone who did the latter, since they got all the knowledge from the other already under their belt. Unfair for anyone at a school that didn;t have that program that wanted to do both. Made it easy for me to do extra subjects and so pick which ones counted towards my entry score.

I sometimes think education would be better if we just stopped trying to pretend it's fair... I mean, we try to keep it as fair as possible, but the rich will always do better, the people with educated parents do better, and research even shows better looking people get better marks on average, even if you control for possible correlations between looks and intelligence. There are way bigger issues than a partially deaf kid getting to skip VCE English, and those aren;t ever going to be fixed.

Also you can get 40 in politics as a second-language speaker, for sure. check how many of the top scorers each year came to Aus as children and come from non-English-speaking homes--more than you'd think.

Couple of points:
1. Wouldn't EAN be a standardized course at VCE? I am sure it would still be less difficult than normal English taken by all students.
2. Although many overseas/ESL students do well in VCE with poor English skills, I would imagine that most are doing science and maths rather than humanities subjects.
Otherwise I agree with your observations regarding the education system and how best to take advantage of it.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

This has turned into the most boring thread ever.

All depends what you're interested in. Not much more can be said about McLarty till he actually plays a game or stands out in training. This is after all the off season.

 

[Kirby]

All depends what you're interested in. Not much more can be said about McLarty till he actually plays a game or stands out in training. This is after all the off season.

It's just like, my opinion man.

 

[sr36]

So Auslan is his second language?

Considering that he has a bionic ear that enables him to orally communicate very effectively, without knowing, I'd be willing to bet that well over 90% of his communication is done in English and has been for his entire life. Therefore I'd say yes, Auslan is his second language - if he is indeed capable of using it and if I was also to consider Auslan to be a language in the same sense as languages which have oracy and literacy.