Scottie Pippen

[Fall Out Boy]

How good is the man?

Whilst the old boys like MJ and Karl Malone get the plaudits, Scottie is quietly turning his misfit Blazers into genuine contenders.

I never really appreciated Scottie when he was with MJ, basically because i thought MJ could even win with me as his offsider.

I do appreciate him now though. To be 37, with so many miles in his legs (1139 games, almost 100 more then MJ), but still be able to not only run a team, but run it successfully, is amazing.

Would it be fair to call Scottie a genuine champion?

 

[Portmanteau]

Agree entirely.

Scottie has more or less, done it all... 6 rings, a gold medal as a member of the Dream Team, several All Star, All-NBA and All-Defensive teams - not the resume of a individual champion but a champion team player. Now he can add to that the honour of being the man who got the Blazers to pull their finger out.

Who knows how good he could've been as the lone star on a team for more than a season and a bit.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky


Would it be fair to call Scottie a genuine champion?

This is the problem? Why are you even asking the question?

I hear people questioning Scottie's inclusion in the 50 greatest of all time. I hear people saying that Scottie just got lucky with playing next to MJ. But these people just dont know what they are talking about.

Scottie Pippen is a great player, easily in the top 50 of all time. He has done it all and now finally after years behind MJ and a couple of years in obscurity, he is finally leading his own team. And now he is showing what he could and still can do even without MJ.

The guy is an all time great and I will be rooting for Portland in the West come playoff time. Let me assure you, they are a big threat, they are every bit as good as the Lakers/Kings/Mavs.

I just reread this post and it reads like Im having a go at you P&P...Im not im merely concurring!

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by jod23
I hear people saying that Scottie just got lucky with playing next to MJ. But these people just dont know what they are talking about.

Why does Kobe Bryant spring to mind?

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Why does Kobe Bryant spring to mind?

Completely different.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by jod23
Completely different.

Oh of course.

Scottie was a vital cog in Chicago's rings but Kobe merely rode Shaq's coattails in LA's rings.


Did i get it right mate?

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Oh of course.

Scottie was a vital cog in Chicago's rings but Kobe merely rode Shaq's coattails.


Did i get it right mate?

No you didnt get it right.

Scottie was a vital cog in Chicago's rings and Kobe was also a vital cog in LA's rings. BUT....Scottie could'nt be replaced and expect the same results. Kobe could be replaced.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by jod23
Scottie was a vital cog in Chicago's rings and Kobe was also a vital cog in LA's rings. BUT....Scottie could'nt be replaced and expect the same results. Kobe could be replaced.

So you're saying that Michael Jordan wasn't capable of winning anything without Scottie Pippen?

Interesting.

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
So you're saying that Michael Jordan wasn't capable of winning anything without Scottie Pippen?

Interesting.

Michael Jordan was capable of doing anything he wanted but history shows that you need at least two very good players to win Championships...

Ill explain what I mean about Scottie not being replaced compared to Kobe. Kobe is a great scorer who is very athletic, can create his own shot and also get involved all over the floor (boards, assists etc)

That can desribe a lot of players...McGrady, Stackhouse, Finley, Francis, Iverson etc...Replace Kobe with one of those guys and Shaq still would have rolled to 3 championships.

Pippen on the other hand. Well he is completely different. To find a player who made such a difference, more so on the defensive end than the offensive end in the NBA is very tough to do. Scottie was a fantastic defender, he is long and he reads the D very well. He can also shoot the 3, create his own shot, get to the hole but it was his defence that set's him apart.

It's very tough to replace a Pippen because not many guys in the league are better at D than they are on Offence. Scottie was one of those guys. But unlike say a Ben Wallace who is useless when on Offence...Scottie was a constant threat. He also runs the point, he and MJ practically ran the point in all of their 6 championships...Scottie was too hard to replace.

Look at other guys in the 90's and tell me if you could find a guy that could fill in for Scottie and be just as effective. It's easy to find guys to fill in for Kobe...but Pippen is a different story.

Anyway this thread was started to talk about how good Pippen is and I feel that now everyone is gonna start bagging him! Dont do it He is one of the greatest.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

I disagree jod, but i shall refrain from arguing. I'll leave that to DEVO

 

[Renegade]

Scottie did a fine job in 1994 leading the bulls into the playoffs, that was after MJ retired the first time and the pushed the knicks to 7 games. They should have even won the series, game 5 Hubert Davis took a trey for the win and Scottie was called for a tiggy touch pussy foul that put Davis on the line for the win.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Scotti Pippen is one of the best all-round players of all time. The guy is a freak and is one of those player that could do just about anything. A rare breed. Grant Hill was a bit similar before injury cut him down but Scottie is far better 3pt shooter than Grant Hill ever was or ever will be. But I do think Grant Hill is another very good player in similar mould to Pippen.

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
I disagree jod, but i shall refrain from arguing. I'll leave that to DEVO

I agree with Jod, the league was sooooooo soooooo weak in the early nineties that they wasn't really anyone around who could play as a forward or guard, and play both ends of the court. From previous eras you could probably name a dozen or more players better than Pippen and that is why I don't think he deserves to be in the 50 greatest players of all time.

Pollard, Jones, Robertson, Goodrich, Havilcek, King, Barry, Erving, English, Johnson, Bird and Worthy to name a few who were all similiar in variety they brought to the game and their acheivements on the court. They are also of similiar height to Pippen.

All were very good to great defensive players and all are probably better offensive players. All have the ability to create openings for themselves or to create for others. And all of them I'd rate as greatest players than Pippen.

Have a nice weekend Jod.

 

[MadEagle]

Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by jod23
This is the problem? Why are you even asking the question?

I hear people questioning Scottie's inclusion in the 50 greatest of all time. I hear people saying that Scottie just got lucky with playing next to MJ. But these people just dont know what they are talking about.

Scottie Pippen is a great player, easily in the top 50 of all time. He has done it all and now finally after years behind MJ and a couple of years in obscurity, he is finally leading his own team. And now he is showing what he could and still can do even without MJ.

The guy is an all time great and I will be rooting for Portland in the West come playoff time. Let me assure you, they are a big threat, they are every bit as good as the Lakers/Kings/Mavs.

I just reread this post and it reads like Im having a go at you P&P...Im not im merely concurring!

Scottie Pippen is "lucky" to be in the Top 50 of All-Time. He has won 6 rings, because of MJ.

He hasnt done it all.

Has he won MVP?

Has he won a Finals MVP?

All-Star Game MVP?

Since leaving Chicago, Pip's number have dropped considerably. Going from avging 20ppg to 12ppg.

If Rasheed Wallace aint the leader of the Portland Jailblazers, im not here.

I like Pippen as a player, but i dont think he is All Time Top 50 material.

Cheers
MadEagle

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by MadEagle

All-Star Game MVP?

Yes.

Since leaving Chicago, Pip's number have dropped considerably. Going from avging 20ppg to 12ppg.

Does anyone average 20ppg at Portland? No.

If Rasheed Wallace aint the leader of the Portland Jailblazers, im not here.

Riiiiiight.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by MadEagle

If Rasheed Wallace aint the leader of the Portland Jailblazers, im not here.

Scottie Pippen is the absolute heart and soul of Portland.

Wallace is the best player, but without Scottie, they would be nothing more then a talented rabble.

 

[MadEagle]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by Guey_34
Yes.



Does anyone average 20ppg at Portland? No.



Riiiiiight.

So we has won an All Star Game MVP and won 6 rings through MJ - He has done everything? Pfffffft!

TEAM LEADERS
Points: R. Wallace 18.0*
Rebounds: R. Wallace 8.0*
Assists: S. Pippen 4.4
Steals: B. Wells 1.76
Blocks: R. Wallace 1.07 *
FG%: R. Wallace .467*
FT%: D. Anderson .848
3PT%: R. Wallace .384*

Riiiiiight

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by MadEagle
So we has won an All Star Game MVP and won 6 rings through MJ - He has done everything? Pfffffft!

TEAM LEADERS
Points: R. Wallace 18.0*
Rebounds: R. Wallace 8.0*
Assists: S. Pippen 4.4
Steals: B. Wells 1.76
Blocks: R. Wallace 1.07 *
FG%: R. Wallace .467*
FT%: D. Anderson .848
3PT%: R. Wallace .384*

Riiiiiight

What P&P said. Pippen is the glue that holds the Blazers together. You don't simply lead your team in a few statistical categories and automatically become the leader. Maybe if you're Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady or Jason Kidd - but this is Rash-weed Wallace.

Further, as everyone has pretty much said, Pippen was the perfect foil for MJ. Thus we could say that MJ got his rings because of Scottie. No Scottie, no dynasty, I'm afraid. One player isn't that good. There's only about half-a-dozen or so blatant examples of this in the league right now!

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by MadEagle
So we has won an All Star Game MVP and won 6 rings through MJ - He has done everything? Pfffffft!

TEAM LEADERS
Points: R. Wallace 18.0*
Rebounds: R. Wallace 8.0*
Assists: S. Pippen 4.4
Steals: B. Wells 1.76
Blocks: R. Wallace 1.07 *
FG%: R. Wallace .467*
FT%: D. Anderson .848
3PT%: R. Wallace .384*

Riiiiiight

Unfortunately leadership and experience aren't statistical categories.

Why do you think the Blazers are 21-5 with Scottie at the point, but only 11-11 when Scottie isn't the main ball carrier?

There must be a reason why the Blazers have passed over three perfectly competent PG's (Mighty Mouse, Jeff McInnis and Antonio Daniels) in preference to Scottie Pippen at the 1.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by DEVO
I agree with Jod, the league was sooooooo soooooo weak in the early nineties that they wasn't really anyone around who could play as a forward or guard, and play both ends of the court. From previous eras you could probably name a dozen or more players better than Pippen and that is why I don't think he deserves to be in the 50 greatest players of all time.

Pollard, Jones, Robertson, Goodrich, Havilcek, King, Barry, Erving, English, Johnson, Bird and Worthy to name a few who were all similiar in variety they brought to the game and their acheivements on the court. They are also of similiar height to Pippen.

All were very good to great defensive players and all are probably better offensive players. All have the ability to create openings for themselves or to create for others. And all of them I'd rate as greatest players than Pippen.

Have a nice weekend Jod.

Ill have a great weekend! It's all star weekend!!

On your opinions....well I just feel sorry for you.

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by MadEagle
Scottie Pippen is "lucky" to be in the Top 50 of All-Time. He has won 6 rings, because of MJ.

He hasnt done it all.

Has he won MVP?

Has he won a Finals MVP?

All-Star Game MVP?

Since leaving Chicago, Pip's number have dropped considerably. Going from avging 20ppg to 12ppg.

If Rasheed Wallace aint the leader of the Portland Jailblazers, im not here.

I like Pippen as a player, but i dont think he is All Time Top 50 material.

Cheers
MadEagle

He won All Star MVP in 94 I think...maybe 95. A memorable performance too in his bright red sneakers!

On a sidenote....if you think Pippen is unworthy, at least he won an All Star MVP...not to mention those handy 6 rings. Let's talk Shaq and how his inclusion was the biggest pile of crap any basketball fan has ever had to put up with.

At the time of selection, he had not won a title, no MVP, no finals MVP, no All Star MVP....save myself time. He had done nothing!

Selected today, yes include him but that was a slap in the face to other more deserving players.

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Scottie Pippen is the absolute heart and soul of Portland.

Wallace is the best player, but without Scottie, they would be nothing more then a talented rabble.

Exactly!

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by MadEagle
So we has won an All Star Game MVP and won 6 rings through MJ - He has done everything? Pfffffft!

TEAM LEADERS
Points: R. Wallace 18.0*
Rebounds: R. Wallace 8.0*
Assists: S. Pippen 4.4
Steals: B. Wells 1.76
Blocks: R. Wallace 1.07 *
FG%: R. Wallace .467*
FT%: D. Anderson .848
3PT%: R. Wallace .384*

Riiiiiight

Stats are not everything. Jordan does not lead the Wizards in scoring, assists or rebounds. But who do you think is the team leader.

I'll give you a hint, it isnt Jerry Stackhouse.

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by Guey_34

Further, as everyone has pretty much said, Pippen was the perfect foil for MJ. Thus we could say that MJ got his rings because of Scottie. No Scottie, no dynasty, I'm afraid. One player isn't that good. There's only about half-a-dozen or so blatant examples of this in the league right now!

Very true. I dont like to take away from what MJ did but it is possible that he would not have won 6 rings without Scottie. He may have been good enough to win a couple or so by himself but not 6! Pippen doesnt get anywhere near enough credit for the Bulls Dynasty.

You need at least two great players to win titles, simple as that. Jordan/Pippen, Isiah/Dumars, Magic/Kareem/Worthy, Bird/McHale/Parish, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq/Kobe, Dr.J/Malone...even all the way back in the days of the Celtics domination. Russell had Havlicek.

The Rockets was somewhat of an exception, at least their first title was anyway, the second was Hakeem/Drexler.

Would Shaq have 3 rings without Kobe? No.
Would Kobe have 3 rings without Shaq? No.

Why doesnt Garnett have a ring? Doesnt have a second good players, never mind a second great player.
Why doesnt T-Mac have a ring? See Garnett.
Why didnt Ewing get a ring? See Garnett.

You need two great players. Pippen was that second great player. He easily deserved his spot in the 50 greatest of all time.

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scottie Pippen

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Unfortunately leadership and experience aren't statistical categories.

Why do you think the Blazers are 21-5 with Scottie at the point, but only 11-11 when Scottie isn't the main ball carrier?

There must be a reason why the Blazers have passed over three perfectly competent PG's (Mighty Mouse, Jeff McInnis and Antonio Daniels) in preference to Scottie Pippen at the 1.

Another very good point.