Strategy Second ruck dilema?

[hurlygurdy]

I'm hearing people such as Lloyd agreeing that JD can't be risked in the ruck... Whats our best second ruck option? How do we solve the problem without being too tall and slow up forward?

 

[Ashton Agar]

McKernan gave the coaching staff something to think about today.

 

[vaughany]

Jenkins.... oh wait

 

[hurlygurdy]

I just want JD to do it, but it's not on my head if he cops an injury as a result.

 

[vaughany]

Seriously though McKernan looks to run out games better than Giles.
I can see Giles having great first halves and being good serviceable player but he will run out of steam and be subbed out in second halves...
OP is right it is a little mini dilemma we have on our hands..

 

[DapperDon]

Are we discussing this matter if Belly gets weeks? Or are we more worried about 3rd ruckman?

Belly and Giles fighting for number 1 spot. McKernan ruck depth

 

[eth-dog]

McKernan was better than Giles tonight. Just never let Ambrose ruck again.

 

[DapperDon]

McKernan was better than Giles tonight. Just never let Ambrose ruck again.

Belly with McKernan pinching in?

Probably works better for a more fluent team, it would be a big lumbering team if we carried both Belly and Giles each game.

 

[eth-dog]

Belly with McKernan pinching in?

Probably works better for a more fluent team, it would be a big lumbering team if we carried both Belly and Giles each game.

Honestly I'm writing the preview of round 1 right now and I have neither in the possible side. The one thing we could do is have Hooker playing on Tippett and following him into the ruck round 1.

 

[Eleven 38]

**** p**** ****r thread

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Giles last 2 Nab games have been disappointing McKernan on the other hand was pretty good it thought certainly didn't harm his chances for a spot in round 1.

 

[efcboy]

No way we can play both T Bell and Giles. McKernan is at least versatile - fan play defence, forward and ruck and is much better at ground level than Giles. I don't think McKernan can be a first choice ruck though if T Bell was out - wouldn't cope with 80% ruck time.

So the way I see the order for each role:

1st Ruck: T Bell, Giles, McKernan, Daniher, Carlisle
2nd Ruck: McKernan, Daniher, Carlisle, Giles, Hooker

I'd like to see Carlisle and Daniher as stay at home forwards. Then its debatable who to play as 3rd forward - in the mix Ambrose, Langford, McKernan and Giles. At this stage for r1 I'd be favouring McKernan.

 

[Halftimehero]

Mckernan is a rookie remember, he would need to be upgraded in order to play round 1

 

[blitzer]

If all we care about is winning individual games then just Bellchambers with Daniher as backup/relief ruck is probably the strongest in terms of overall balance. I personally don't have a huge amount of concern about Daniher in the ruck - he hasn't shown a lot of talent in the ruck contests themselves but he actually does a good job around the ground when playing in the ruck. He also has already played there a fair bit and its not like hes been struggling from rucking injuries. Carlisle can also ruck if required - although it would be better to keep him down forward.

If either of Daniher/Carlisle are unavailable then it becomes reasonable to play Bellchambers and Giles although obviously not ideal.

If we absolutely insist on playing 2 rucks as well as Daniher/Carlisle then i guess the 2nd ruck should be McKernan who is more mobile and more versatile than Giles. I still don't think its optimal but it would work out better than Giles.

One final comment: I'm not a fan of starting with 2 rucks with a plan to sub one off. Injuries happen and there's always a decent chance you won't even get to choose who to sub off anyway.

 

[fishardansin]

Belly can ruck big minutes. JD + Carlise to give him a chop out with a 5 min burst each on the ball each quarter. It's good for them to have a little canter around the ground without their opponent following them.

Giles and McKernan will make a fantastic VFL duo. Giles will be cover for Belly and McKernan for the KPFs. Both will get games through the year because there is not way they'll be risked during the season. We need all of Belly, JD and Jake fit and firing for the finals this year.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Honestly I'm writing the preview of round 1 right now and I have neither in the possible side. The one thing we could do is have Hooker playing on Tippett and following him into the ruck round 1.

Perhaps we can make shift the second ruck situation week to week... I really don't want to expose JD to injury, so if we can get Hooker and Carlisle playing some ruck minutes then thats a start. Didn't see the game so didn't see Ambrose stink it up, but if he is going to demand a best 22, then we should get to work on skilling up his ruck work as well. At least with Ambrose, he should bring his pressure and fitness to the contest?
People are talking up Mckernon, but i really don't want start all over again with another "project" player this year. One decent NAB performance is not sufficient to kick start a career.

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

I agree we cant risk Joe in the ruck, especially whilst his frame is not huge. A Collingwood mate of mine reminds me of the toll it took on Josh Fraser and that they never saw the best of him as his body didn't stand up to rucking.

 

[eth-dog]

Perhaps we can make shift the second ruck situation week to week... I really don't want to expose JD to injury, so if we can get Hooker and Carlisle playing some ruck minutes then thats a start. Didn't see the game so didn't see Ambrose stink it up, but if he is going to demand a best 22, then we should get to work on skilling up his ruck work as well. At least with Ambrose, he should bring his pressure and fitness to the contest?
People are talking up Mckernon, but i really don't want start all over again with another "project" player this year. One decent NAB performance is not sufficient to kick start a career.

Ambrose playing ruck was as bad as NLM.

 

[Halftimehero]

Do we have the ability to upgrade a rookie before round 1?

 

[eth-dog]

Do we have the ability to upgrade a rookie before round 1?

Kommer maybe?

 

[Halftimehero]

Kommer maybe?

If we can do that, I would have Mckernan ahead of Giles quite comfortably at this stage.

 

[BrunoV]

Best balance for the side is Bellchambers with relief coming from Carlisle and Daniher with Ambrose playing at CHF.

If you want a genuine second ruck I reckon McKernan is a better fit along side Bellchambers, Carlisle and Daniher.

 

[ghostdog]

Belly can ruck big minutes. JD + Carlise to give him a chop out with a 5 min burst each on the ball each quarter. It's good for them to have a little canter around the ground without their opponent following them.

Giles and McKernan will make a fantastic VFL duo. Giles will be cover for Belly and McKernan for the KPFs. Both will get games through the year because there is not way they'll be risked during the season. We need all of Belly, JD and Jake fit and firing for the finals this year.

Was it the second game against Collingwood last year where this worked well, taking 100 marks? Sneak one of the HFs deeper when Carlisle goes up the ground... Gwilt available and Hurley as a forward option helps out there as well.

 

[fishardansin]

Was it the second game against Collingwood last year where this worked well, taking 100 marks? Sneak one of the HFs deeper when Carlisle goes up the ground... Gwilt available and Hurley as a forward option helps out there as well.

Yep. I'd like Ambrose to continue pushing high with his running capacity and have one of our big experienced MIDs like Watson and Goddard rotating through half forward to play the role of classy 3rd tall.

Bellchambers can sit on the pine for 2-5 minutes 3 times a quarter and that'd be plenty of rest for him. Carlisle could do two of those and JD one.

Also if the forward line isn't working we could try something other than the Hurley Carlisle swap. We could put Carlisle in the ruck, push JD high and then have Bellchambers deep as a marking option and Ambrose also deep as a leading option.

The other option is the Carlisle Hurley swap and Hurley plays as high half forward with Ambrose going onto the ball and Watson deep with JD. I'd also love to swing Cooney onto the ball for more speed there and put Goddard's class on half forward line.

Anyhow the moral to my story is that I'd like 3 kpds, 1 ruck and 2 kpfs with the resting ruck being one of them. The 3rd tall forward has to be a runner.

 

[Keystone agony]

Been a while since players have copped to many serious injuries in the ruck hasnt it?

I want Daniher not because it helps our structure because i think he can be a hell of a ruckman and really have a positive impact up the ground with his running, skill and knowledge of the game.