Selectors Are Completely Clueless

[SurfingTheVoid]

Everyone was calling for North to be dropped. He is, but people are still not happy.

Everyone was calling for Doherty to be dropped. He is, but people are still not happy.

People have been calling for Smith to be picked. He is, but people are still not happy.

People have been querying for 12 months why Hughes isn't playing. He is, but people are still not happy.

That leaves the fast bowlers and the spinner. Bollinger did nothing to suggest he should be playing. Siddle and Harris are obvious. Its a judgment call on who the other 2 are. Johnson and Hilfenhaus are the next best.

Beer won't play.

Unless D. Hussey and C. White are picked then I doubt 90% on this board will ever be happy.

Wow. What an insightful post.

To summarise: "People have different and strong opinions, and I don't like it."

And no, Siddle isn't obvious. He's mediocre. A hattrick or not, he has been the same old Siddle ever since - non-threatening. He doesn't deserve a place in the side on any metric, and needs a REAL run in first-class cricket to prove if he can do anything with the ball over the long-term. He is not good enough for Test cricket. We have one inconsistent fast man in Johnson, we don't need an even more inconsistent one in Siddle.

 

[Badesumofu]

This is the team I would have playing once this series is done. It will cop some beatings, but I think it's a team of guys who could be the future. There will be some chopping and changing here and there as we discover who is up to it and who is not, but here it is:

Hughes
Watson
Khawaja
White (c)
Ferguson
Smith
Paine
O’Keefe
Harris
Copeland
Hilfenhaus

Bollinger, Johnson and Clarke would all be pushing to regain spots in that side. I might also have Dussey in instead of Ferguson until Ferguson can put together a 50-average season of Shield Cricket. Copeland looks to be a real gun, and O'Keefe is surely more worth a go than the likes of Doherty and Beer. I think Harris is the only guy over 30 of that lot, so it's very much a looking to the future type of team.

 

[skipper kelly]

Wow

Just maybe I stopped reading after this.

 

[matty p]

This is the team I would have playing once this series is done. It will cop some beatings, but I think it's a team of guys who could be the future. There will be some chopping and changing here and there as we discover who is up to it and who is not, but here it is:

Hughes
Watson
Khawaja
White (c)
Ferguson
Smith
Paine
O’Keefe
Harris
Copeland
Hilfenhaus

Bollinger, Johnson and Clarke would all be pushing to regain spots in that side. I might also have Dussey in instead of Ferguson until Ferguson can put together a 50-average season of Shield Cricket. Copeland looks to be a real gun, and O'Keefe is surely more worth a go than the likes of Doherty and Beer. I think Harris is the only guy over 30 of that lot, so it's very much a looking to the future type of team.

That's pretty much the team I'd be putting out on the park too.

I'd want Johnson to back in the side once he's back in form, as when he's on song he's easily our best bowler. But right now I'd have Hilfy, Harris and Copeland ahead of him. When Johnson is back in form, he'd give us a very deep batting lineup too, with O'Keefe, Johnson and (maybe) Harris all in the tail.

O'Keefe is the clear choice for the spinner's role. The Beer selection is just ludicrous and O'Keefe's first class record towers over any other spinner in Australia, both with the ball and the bat.

There's definitely a case for having Clarke in ahead of one of the batsmen, but only once he's fully recovered from his back injury. None of this nonsense of playing unfit players. It never works!

Hussey obviously doesn't deserved to be dropped at this stage, but he shouldn't go on for too long. This series has helped him restore his legacy as a tremendous test batsman, and he should think about retiring while on top of his game rather than having another slump.

Ponting is a MAJOR problem right now. Both his batting and especially his captaincy are costing us big time. He needs to go, along with Nielson, Hilditch, and the other selectors if anything is going to change.

I'm still not convinced about Smith or White as test batsman, but they both offer something extra. White is the best captain in Australia, although I'm not sure if this should get him a spot in the side. Maybe Clarke to come in for White once he's fit, with Hussey taking up the captaincy. Smith's bowling could be very useful if we continue to fail to bowl out sides, so he should probably get a spot in the team.

Hughes, Khawaja, Ferguson and Paine all need to be persisted with. They all have huge potential and we need them in our team for as long as possible.

Hughes
Watson
Khawaja
Ferguson
White/M. Hussey (c)
Smith
Paine
O’Keefe
Harris/Johnson
Copeland
Hilfenhaus

 

[Doodlesweaver]

i would think that Swann is petitioning Strauss to let him open the bowling to have a crack at Hughes.

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Just maybe I stopped reading after this.

Oh dear. The adult version of "NAH NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Hughes
Watson
Khawaja
White (c)
Ferguson
Smith
Paine
O’Keefe
Harris
Copeland
Hilfenhaus

Ummm... much as Paine shows potential, why would you drop Haddin? He's shown he still has a lot to offer. Same with Clarke, who, notwithstanding a current back injury is still one of our best batsmen. IMHO, it looks like you are dropping players just for the sake of it.

 

[nick1408]

You may have seen my post elsewhere but here is my take on what should be happening:

Now to the real delemia: Team Australia.

As much as I rated Doherty before the first test and I hope he does make it I think he will become the scapegoat for the Perth test. North will stay I think but doesn't deserve to. We knew these issues were coming and this is how I would have planned for it:

India tour: Take a massive squad. We knew Bollinger and Hussey wouldn't be there until right before the first test. As such I see a great opportunity to try a few players out. To start with I would have booked in four tour matches instead of one. With four matches in mind I would have taken the following squad:

Openers:
S. Katich
P. Hughes
U. Kawaja

Middle Order Batters:
R. Ponting
M. North
C. White
G. Bailey
M. Clarke


All Rounders:
S. Watson
S. Smith
J. Hastings


Wicket Keepers:
T. Paine
M. Wade


Fast Bowlers:
J. Hazelwood
J. Pattinson
C. McKay
R. Harris
M. Starc
B. Hilfinhaus


Spinners:
N. Hauritz
X. Doherty
J. Holland


So I have a 22 man squad. With the four tour matches I can cycle players through in Indian conditions to see if they can play overseas out of the reletively comfort of Australia. We know Bollinger and Hussey will join the squad later bringing the numbers up to 24 but any players not required for the tests can be sent home. Pattinson got injured a bit after this, Haddin, Callum Ferguson and I think Siddle were injured before the series. I haven't put up Dave Hussey due to his age and the need to get some youth into the team.

So, with all these players they all get used to the touring lifestyle with test players such as Ponting, Katich and Clarke.

Now, after the Indian series we found out that Paine can cut it at test level with both the gloves and the stick. As such, he should have held onto his position due to form and age. We need the youth.

Also, Ponting would have the captaincy taken off him if I was choosing it. His field settings are poor and he doesn't seem to portray the same confidence as his predecessors did. At the least I would have him learn the correct field settings for a non-wicket taking spinner in Hauritz. This may seem an oxymoron but non-wicket takers have their place. Just look at how South Africa use Paul Harris's off-spinners to their advantage and due to their quality fast bowling stocks he ends up with two or three wickets due to the pressure they put on in the field for all the bowlers. Hauritz can be effective but needs the support of the field to be effective.

Next, North gone for either Kawaja or Smith due to their superior record in first class compared to Ferguson. Smith is the double-edged sword with his bowling too. Before the first test Hussey would have been out of my side too but I would have made the wrong decision it now seems.

Bowlers: Johnson wouldn't have made the Brisbane test for me. Hilfinhaus, Siddle and either Harris or Bollinger would have been my bowlers. People seem to put a lot of faith in Johnson due to his batting but he needs to take wickets as he leaks way too many runs, doesn't move the ball due to action and grip (will explain later) and is very erratic. his grip of the ball is all wrong for his action. The seam should be vertical, pointing at first slip for an out-swingger opposite for in-swinggers. He holds the ball with his fingers along the seam (like a conventional actioned bowler) which, due to his action negates swing and cutas while the ball is still spinning front-over-back the ball's attitude is with the seam being parralel to the ground, making the ball want to swing in the up-down motion.

Now I have fixed Johnson's problems I will move onto the Ashes.

So, my first test 12 would have been:

Watson
Katich
Ponting
Kawaja
Clarke
Smith
Paine
Doherty
Siddle
Hilfinhaus
Bollinger
Harris

3 debutants but we need to move some of the older players on. Kawaja or Smith can be subsituted for Cameron White, who I think needs to be in the side for his batting and cricket brain. If he was in the side now he would just about be captain I feel.

One-and-a-half tests in and I will start planning for Perth. North out, any of White, Kawaja or Smith in. White the best fit though I feel. Bring James Pattinson into the squad depending on his game with the Vics. I rate him as the best up-and-coming bowler in the country. Doesn't need to play but will be a better player for the experience. If Harris is injured then should be considered. Still play Doherty as he needs experience. You cannot cut him this early and if Adelaide is drawn we can probably afford to carry him through the series. If the pitch is a greentop then select either White or Smith and use these guys for the 10 overs a spinner may bowl. With Watson, and three other quicks though you don't need a fifth fast bowler.

The way England are batting against us I think we need to change the bowlers. I'm not sure who should go yet, but James Pattinson should be the one considered.

And just to state my alliances, I am a NSW supporter.

If we lose in Perth I think the following should happen:

1. Ponting dropped
2. Hussey dropped
3. Haddin dropped
4. Khawaja, Smith, Hughes, Wade (Paine when fit), James Pattinson and possibly Cameron White drafted into side to gain test experiance
5. White to captain. Controversial call, but I don't think Clarke has 'it'
6. Decision made on Katich one way or the other. Personally, I would drop him

The previous six points is the approach that I think should be taken. The mid '80's is fast approaching again and only bold selections will help fix this funk. Back then it was a QLD backup keeper (Healy) instead of the bloke who 'deserves a go' (Tim Zoerer). It was a up and coming fast bowler (Craig McDermott). It was an all rounder with talent (Steve Waugh) and later it was a fat, unfit bloke from Victoria (Warne). We may have been very strong previously but that has gone now and so should the people living on past performances. People here have said age shouldn't be taken into consideration. If it isn't you will keep getting people in the side for a short period and people who need exposure are missing out. You do need a few older blokes, but not eleven of them in your side.

We used to say Australia A was as strong as Australia but that is no longer the case.

Support staff should be reviewed as well. Troy Cooley was a poor signing. Australia already has the best fast bowling coach in the world - Dennis Lillee. Sign him now. We also have the best youth coach - Rod Marsh. Sign him as well. Forget your petty differences and get the best coaches instead of signing blokes from other countries because of one series.

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Amazing you select White over Ferguson.

Ferguson has a better Sheffield Shield record than White, and has better recent form as well - not to mention less technical flaws.

Argue however you like over the relative merits of Ferguson, Smith and Khawaja, but the reality is Ferguson is the one in form - has hit three tons in the last few weeks in all forms of the game. Khawaja? Smith? White?

 

[nick1408]

Personally, I don't rate Ferguson as a first class cricketer. The three cricketers I mention all have a superior first class batting record than Ferguson. Khawaja is leading the runs and averages in Sheffield Shield with a double century and three 50's to Callum Ferguson's two tons so deserves to be first cab off the rank. I put White forward not only for his batting but also his captaincy ability. Smith should be selected as a all-rounder, not purely a batsman.

Cameron White needs to be selected now as well due to age. If he isn't then he should be overlooked to the next person in line.

I do see your point with Cameron White this season, but I feel he has more to offer than just his batting - which is pretty good anyway.

 

[Cleavy]

you're lucky to get 1 tour match to acclimatise these days, 4 is just madness. (unless it's a 5 Test series)

 

[nick1408]

Thats the point. Four should have been booked so you could take a heap of players and test them out.

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Personally, I don't rate Ferguson as a first class cricketer. The three cricketers I mention all have a superior first class batting record than Ferguson. Khawaja is leading the runs and averages in Sheffield Shield with a double century and three 50's to Callum Ferguson's two tons so deserves to be first cab off the rank. I put White forward not only for his batting but also his captaincy ability. Smith should be selected as a all-rounder, not purely a batsman.

Cameron White needs to be selected now as well due to age. If he isn't then he should be overlooked to the next person in line.

I do see your point with Cameron White this season, but I feel he has more to offer than just his batting - which is pretty good anyway.

Have to disagree with all of that:

1. Ferguson's Shield record - where it counts - is better than White's. Including County Div 2 fun runs in considerations of the two is misleading. Ferguson is a superior batsman to White.

2. Smith is not (yet) an all-rounder. His bowling is far from consistent enough to be classed an all-rounder. He's a developing batsman who is trying to develop legspin as well.

3. The best thing going for White is captaincy. He is not likely to be good enough to hold a spot as a Test batsman, especially given our current struggles. Way too loose.

 

[aneale]

Except the part about David Hussey. He is 33 years old and wouldn't have been in consideration, his time has come and gone.

way too many players are the wrong side of 25 when selected. I'm astonished by some of the names that gets mentioned.

Mark Cameron, by some on this board even, what a middling plodder this hack is. Where has he been for 10 years? thats right battling through lower grade nothingness. Managed to play long enough for the better bowlers to retire or to break down and be around for one of the worst periods of shield standard batsmen and all of sudden at almost 30 he's deemed worthy to play for Australia because he takes a few wickets against no one of note. Laughable.

the 4 most last successful bowlers we have had are McGrath, Warne, Dizzy and Lee, they were 23, 22, 21 and 23 when making their debut, time to start making test players again and not pick out mediocre duds who should have all been given the arse from their State sides let alone been given a baggygreen. KMart may as well start selling them for all they worth at the moment with the names that could get one.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Amazing you select White over Ferguson.

Ferguson has a better Sheffield Shield record than White, and has better recent form as well - not to mention less technical flaws.

Argue however you like over the relative merits of Ferguson, Smith and Khawaja, but the reality is Ferguson is the one in form - has hit three tons in the last few weeks in all forms of the game. Khawaja? Smith? White?

Khawaja tops the Shield runs table. FWIW, he is also ahead of Ferguson in the Ryobi Cup (although, IMHO, Ferguson is a much better one-day player). Just come off 53 and 34* against SA, and a cracking one day century. Ferguson looks to be coming into some nice form. But Khawaja has probably been the best batsman outside of the Test team in the last two seasons.

I won't disagree with you on White and Smith, though. I don't think either should be in the team at the moment.

 

[nick1408]

Yeah, that's true about White, but Stephen Fleming wasn't a world beating batsman but he was a top notch captain. If White could average 35 at test level I feel his captaincy would cover the rest.

By the way, White and Ferguson both average 35 in Australia.

 

[Cleavy]

Thats the point. Four should have been booked so you could take a heap of players and test them out.

no cricket board would agree to 4, esp for a 2 Test series (as it was)

 

[aneale]

Yeah, that's true about White, but Stephen Fleming wasn't a world beating batsman but he was a top notch captain. If White could average 35 at test level I feel his captaincy would cover the rest.

By the way, White and Ferguson both average 35 in Australia.

Brearley, Cowdrey, Gatting, the English system of picking substandard batsmen because they were good captains shouldn't be copied. Pick the best team and then pick a captain.

It would be a disgrace if Cameron White got named in the team let alone as captain.

 

[Cleavy]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...-grows-for-hosts/story-e6frf3gl-1225969721383

If this is true (and not sour grapes), then he's not the first player in recent times who has experienced this. Pretty poor from the panel. At least give the guy some feedback.

 

[nick1408]

Brearley, Cowdrey, Gatting, the English system of picking substandard batsmen because they were good captains shouldn't be copied. Pick the best team and then pick a captain.

It would be a disgrace if Cameron White got named in the team let alone as captain.

I think captaincy is something that needs to be nurtured though. If a champion team is captained by someone with no idea of fields, bowling changes etc. then the team will fail.

At the moment I don't think there is anyone at the right age who has shown captaincy material. Katich has but he is getting on and the rest haven't captained before.

I like what George Bailey is doing in Tasmania but his batting record isn't good enough. I think White is the best candidate, but again, if he isn't picked soon overlook him to whoever is next in line.

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

In terms of captaincy material - what about Haddin in the short term, looking at someone like Ferguson taking over in the long term?

 

[placebo]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...-grows-for-hosts/story-e6frf3gl-1225969721383

If this is true (and not sour grapes), then he's not the first player in recent times who has experienced this. Pretty poor from the panel. At least give the guy some feedback.

That's such a terrible article headline. He didn't take a swipe at all.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

If this is true (and not sour grapes), then he's not the first player in recent times who has experienced this. Pretty poor from the panel. At least give the guy some feedback.

I'm not inclined to defend the selectors, but what feedback does he really need? Apparently, when Hohns was chairman of selectors and players sought feedback on being dropped, or missing out on selection, he would tell them "Score more runs" or "Take more wickets". It's pretty straightforward.

Hauritz was unlucky to be dropped in the first place, but his path back into the team is pretty clear. Keep playing well for NSW and keep taking wickets. Beer will be gone before the end of the summer, and the spinners spot will be up for grabs again.

 

[nick1408]

In terms of captaincy material - what about Haddin in the short term, looking at someone like Ferguson taking over in the long term?

I think Katich would be a better choice. There are better, younger keepers going around in Wade and Paine who could easily fill Haddin's role. I also think captaincy should require a state captains job before you get the Australian job which would rule Ferguson out.

 

[nick1408]

no cricket board would agree to 4, esp for a 2 Test series (as it was)

That may be true but what about what England have done for the Ashes? bring out a second squad of players who get a heap of trial matches to test their ability outside their own country. Players in that squad have already played for England too like Craig Kieswetter, Liam Plunkett and James Tredwell.