sheedy over-rated

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Sheeds overrated?

4 flags in a 20 year reign?
I'd take that. Give me a fan who wouldn't.

I have the upmost respect for Sheeds and believe he is a fantastic coach who has that irritating ability from an opposing teams point of view to keep his side in contention every year. As long as my side is up there I always know that Essendon is another dangerous side up there and they will always be as long as Sheeds is there. He just keeps managing to tweak his side and improving it. It is the way to rebuild.

 

[dougthelegend]

Originally posted by NICK THE PIE MAN
Sheeds overrated?

4 flags in a 20 year reign?
I'd take that. Give me a fan who wouldn't.

I have the upmost respect for Sheeds and believe he is a fantastic coach who has that irritating ability from an opposing teams point of view to keep his side in contention every year. As long as my side is up there I always know that Essendon is another dangerous side up there and they will always be as long as Sheeds is there. He just keeps managing to tweak his side and improving it. It is the way to rebuild.

A collingwood fan giving credit where its due - has the whole world turned upside down

NTPM is a pies fan that i actually hold some respect for - and that definately is a first

 

[IceTemple]

Originally posted by MiniS
If pegan can bring Carlton out of where they r now, like what the pies has done, like what the lions have achieved, the pegan is by all means a great coach

There is a flaw in your logic IMO. The Pies have almost completely rebuilt under MM from the days of the imfamous Shaw. This is what Pagan is also doing (though not from youth like MM). MM did not make the crop of players that he inherited better, he just replaced them.

Blight is the "man" who can make a side win what was not expected. LM also to a degree, but he has, arguably, had a much better crop to start with.

LM inherited a side that was young and needed better guidance so he was able to acheive almost instant success with them. His brilliance is in the way he has managed to keep them focused and willing for three straight years. The question mark hanging over LM is whether he can build his own side, or in this case rebuild once this crop drifts apart. He couldn't at Collingwood. Pagan "built" North and now he is trying to rebuilt Carlton that was full of hacks. In two years there should be an axe swinging if this new crop don't look like gelling.

 

[shiva25]

Originally posted by Cheer Red Blood
Excuse me but dont you rate the best players by brownlows and Norms, if youre saying Carey is better than - Skilton(3 BMs),Stewert(3 BMs), Bunton (3 BM's),Reynolds ( 2 BM's),Hutchinson (2 BM's).

Carey is nowhere near the greatest AFL player and youre wrong to think that.

No you dont rate best players by the amount of Brownlows theyve won.There are far too many great players that have never won a brownlow eg Carey, Matthews and Ablett and i would take all these players ahead of those you mentioned.

 

[pazza]

Only because they played in the modern era shiva25.

Reynolds achieved far more for Essendon than say what Carey did at North. Not in terms of Brownlows, but, leading a side, both as captain and coach from the doldrums where they were in the 30's to the strongest team for 20 years in the 40's and 50's (a period when Essendon won premierships in '42, '46, '49 and '50, plus grand finals in '41, '43, '51, '55, '57 and '59). Hutchison was just unlucky to have been considered the second rover Reynolds, during his playing career, but, upon Reynolds' retirement, was a wonderful player.

Skilton was truly successful in a side which battled along for years, only making the finals in 1970, Skilton's second last year. Bunton did similar in the 30's with Fitzroy. Bunton was also one of the game's first real athletes.

Stewart was lucky. The St. Kilda team of the mid to late 60's and Richmond of the early 70's were very strong.

Matthews really should have won one, given how strong the Hawks were during his career..many grand finals and experience. Same deal with Bartlett. Ablett and Carey have a big problem in that their report sheets got in the way of winning Brownlow's.

 

[Stevo]

I think Billy Hutchison actually pushed King Richard out of his first rover position.

 

[theGimp]

Just a quick word on the Pagan coaching style. To me he is the most overrated coach to ever attempt the job. He made his name at North when they had the open forward line and Carey in the goal square. I admit this wiorked but it didnt take a genius to figure that one out. Carey was a freak.

He still tries it at Carlton even though it fails week after week. In my opinion Brittain was a far better coach in all aspects of the job.

 

[shiva25]

Originally posted by theGimp
Just a quick word on the Pagan coaching style. To me he is the most overrated coach to ever attempt the job. He made his name at North when they had the open forward line and Carey in the goal square. I admit this wiorked but it didnt take a genius to figure that one out. Carey was a freak.

He still tries it at Carlton even though it fails week after week. In my opinion Brittain was a far better coach in all aspects of the job.

You couldnt be more wrong.Dont forget that when Pagan took over North in the early 90s they were a complete rabble even with Carey in that side.He was able to get the best out of the average players and worked out a game plan that was very successful for a nearly a decade.
In my view he hasnt been at Carlton long enough to prove anything yet and may need another season to prove himself

 

[ROCK22]

Although I'm a fanatical Hawthorn supporter, its fair to acknowledge that Sheedy is probably one of the greatest coaches around. Has done a brilliant job for essendon and is certainly not overrated

Essendon were a rabble from 1965 onwards. He took them to premierships, since he took over in 1981.

83 grand finalists, 84-85 back to back, 89 prelim, 90 grand finalists, 93 premiership, 96,99 prelims, 2000 premiership,2001 grand finalists. As you can see a master at rebuilding the team every 3 to 5 years. He knows how to manage a list. Something Hawthorn for example should look at more carefully.

Anyone that bags Sheeds is an absolute fool. Certainly not overrated and one of the shiftiest men in football.

I loved it when they asked him whether Schwab's coaching future was in trouble and he answered "No way" etc, -- Of course when you have never lost a match against Schwab. He's a marvel. Wish he was at Hawthorn

 

[ROCK22]

well not a rabble since 65, they did make prelims in 66 and 67 and grand finalists i think in 68 -- nevertheless, down and out since that period

 

[topdon]

Originally posted by ROCK22
well not a rabble since 65, they did make prelims in 66 and 67 and grand finalists i think in 68 -- nevertheless, down and out since that period

Our decade of hell was the 1970s where we only made the finals three times ('72,'73 and '79).

I was born in '77, so i've only ever known K.Sheedy coached Essendon sides. Wouldn't have it any other way. He is one of the best things to have happened to Essendon since the great John Coleman.

 

[theGimp]

My point about Pagan is that he only has one game plan. Granted it did work when he was at North for many years but he has yet to impress me with anything else he has none in footy. Besides that he is a disgrace for selling out to Carlton.

 

[dogsbody]

First quarter 1990 Grand Final. Collingwood in attack most of the quarter but can only put on a couple of goals. Essendon gone even that early. Well into time on. Salmon bags two out of nowhere and Essendon are back in the hunt and a couple of points down.

Beginning of the second quarter, Sheedy moves Salmon into the ruck.

 

[tomaraya]

today's a nice day for a troll.
sheedy is an extremely overrated coach.coached the biggest bunch of underachievers ever.
1 premiership from the supposed greatest team ever says it all.
and what the hell are mercuri and misiti still doing on his list of players.i think they're only there to take the pressure of allan and murphy when that little experiment goes terribly wrong.

 

[theGimp]

Originally posted by tomaraya
today's a nice day for a troll.
sheedy is an extremely overrated coach.coached the biggest bunch of underachievers ever.
1 premiership from the supposed greatest team ever says it all.
and what the hell are mercuri and misiti still doing on his list of players.i think they're only there to take the pressure of allan and murphy when that little experiment goes terribly wrong.

Ok, let the battle begin.

I will keep it pretty simple and use small words so as to allow the outside Collingwood fan to understand the point of this conversation.

Just to get the ball rolling, dont you think, Mr Araya its a little foolish to throw out things like Essendon are underachievers when Collingwood are comming off two straight Grand Final losses ?

Granted we lost a couple we should have won through very bad luck, but we actually did win one in there somewhere.

 

[utility]

Originally posted by Cheer Red Blood

Carey is nowhere near the greatest AFL player and youre wrong to think that.

The AFLPA MVP Award is a much more accurate indication of the best player in a season than is the Brownlow, as it is voted on by the players:

1982 - Leigh Matthews (Hawthorn)
1983 - Terry Daniher (Essendon)
1984 - Russell Greene (Hawthorn)
1985 - Greg Williams (Geelong)
1986 - Paul Roos (Fitzroy)
1987 - Tony Lockett (St Kilda)
1988 - Gerard Healy (Sydney)
1989 - Tim Watson (Essendon)
1990 - Darren Millane (Collingwood)
1991 - Jim Stynes (Melbourne)
1992 - Jason Dunstall (Hawthorn)
1993 - Gary Ablett (Geelong)
1994 - Greg Williams (Carlton)
1995 - Wayne Carey (North Melbourne)
1996 - Corey McKernan (North Melbourne)
1997 - Robert Harvey (St Kilda)
1998 - Wayne Carey (North Melbourne)
1999 - Shane Crawford (Hawthorn)
2000 - Anthony Koutoufides (Carlton)
2001 - Andrew McLeod (Adelaide)
2002 - Luke Darcy (Western Bulldogs), Michael Voss (Brisbane)
2003 - Michael Voss (Brisbane)

Sheedy - his record speaks for itself... unless you rate him as the best ever coach, I don't think he is overrated (also not the most appropriate board to be trolling Sheedy).

Pagan - too early to call at Carlton, give him a couple of years and then make a call... made the finals nine out of ten seasons with North.