Sheedy

[Persevering Saint]

Just a thread to promote discussion.

Lots of us are ticked off about Lyon. Kevin Sheedy is one of the most experienced and successful coaches in the history of the game. He's currently not coaching anybody. If we finish bottom four this year, do the Saints cut their losses and make a play for Sheeds?

I say no, for a host of reasons that I'll leave be for the moment, until I've heard what others think. Just thought it might get us thinking.

 

[Squizz]

I think that if there is an experienced coach there should be a "director of coaching" or similar type role established. The move of Chris Connolly to the Melbourne role seems a good one.

Not sure how it would be taken though if the Saints looked to instigate it during Ross Lyon's time. As I said on another thread, Lyon hasn't been blessed with an in-form Gehrig, a fit Riewoldt, and a player by the name of Hamill.

Lyon needs a second draft period to refresh the list the way he wants it (just as Essendon do), but the gloves are off after this.

If the Saints don't make the 8 and Allen, Jones, Geary, Howard, McEvoy, and Steven (and you'd hope one of the rookies) haven't come on and we fail to pick up talent at the '08 draft Lyon will be up against it.

But life can change pretty quick, and if Kosi gets it together and we get game time out of King & Gardi (who I think is about to hit his straps) and no more injuries you'd expect a turnaround from the boys.

Having said all this, Sheedy is a Richmond/Essendon man and I don't like these guys being tempted to come over for the $ (ah la Blight who we stupidly pursued even though he wasn;t interested initially). If they really believe in out story and sound us out, then that's a different matter.

 

[bubblegoose]

Just a thread to promote discussion.

Lots of us are ticked off about Lyon. Kevin Sheedy is one of the most experienced and successful coaches in the history of the game. He's currently not coaching anybody. If we finish bottom four this year, do the Saints cut their losses and make a play for Sheeds?

I say no, for a host of reasons that I'll leave be for the moment, until I've heard what others think. Just thought it might get us thinking.

Gday Perseverer. Good thought provoker, though I'd wager will bring out the extremes of the opinion scale.

Depending on responses possibly you can get the top ten guys lining up for new coaching roles. Such a rotten time over the next few years to try to restructure / rebuild a club be it players, coaching staff, etc.

I for one am against chopping Lyon.

I think it takes more than one year to achieve the highest of results with a team that has had so little new players being developed consistently over the last few years & introduced into the team.

If we chop Lyon, how long do we give the next coach? What expectations would we have of a replacement if put into place? Was anyone calling for Calrkson's head this early into his tenure?

I can't see Sheedy making any grand steps forward with our list. The last Essendon bloke had no luck either. I can't really see anyone turning our list around at the moment - unless is there some religious diety we can employ who can appease the injury gods?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think the big problem is Fear.
What if the coach dosn't know what he is doing?

So yes, if RL is a good coach he needs a fair time to get things working right, but if he is bad and he is given a lot of time and it still doesn't work, a new coach then needs all that time again. So some people are thinking, if this guy is bad we need to change him sooner rather than later.
Look how close Thompson was to getting the flick from the Cats!

The advantage of someone like Sheedy can be that he has coached long enough, and successfully enough for it to be more than just luck. But then there are doubts as to whether he was in touch with the modern game.

Then there are people like Pagan. Was it luck for him the first time round? Was he a bad coach? It took a long time for Carlton to get rid of him and now they are coming good. Are they coming good because of the new coach or is it because Pagan put in the ground work.

I am not suggesting that RL get the flick if we don't make finals this year or anything like that, but I am disappointed that we are not really seeing any "potential" on the playing field. I was really hoping that the team/gameplan would start to be coming together this year, but even when we win against teams like Tigers, and Blues it seems more like good luck than good management.

I will personally be feeling unsatisfied with RL if things are not clicking into place in the 2009 season. ( I don't necessarily mean winning all the games, but they should be looking like they can win ).

 

[The Punter]

There is a prevailing view that we have sacked enough coaches, and I agree, but we have also probably hired too many duds. I'm not certain whether Lyon is a dud or not yet.

You could make comparisons between Essendon 1980 and St Kilda 2008, but not to the general league situation out of our control. Sheedy came along and added many players who contributed 84-85, and this may not be possible with St Kilda.

The Blight thing is a bit of a red herring to me. Blight was satisfied with his place in the game, and was lured only by the money. I think Sheedy isn't entirely satisfied with his rating as a coach, knowing he gets put in the same group as a guy like Leigh Matthews. He knows one more premiership as coach would probably get him to the highest level with Norm Smith, Ron Barassi and Jock McHale.

But there is a lot of water to go under the bridge yet.

 

[Sir Robert]

The move of Chris Connolly to the Melbourne role seems a good one.

Lol... Based on results???

Just joking I also agree it is a good move, just not paying dividends yet for the Dees.

 

[Speck]

TBH, I would love Sheedy. If it got that bad I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Lyon sacked and Sheedy appointed.

I'd also be happy if he was given another role at the footy club.

If only we had sacked Thomas a year later, plenty of coaches freed up - Sheedy, Pagan, Daniher & Connelly.

 

[Kildonan]

We were lucky. We got in first and got the best available coach. None of those freed up have anything on Lyon. Not even Sheedy. I wouldn't be averse to having Sheedy in as a consultant tactical expert or some such role.

To chop and change coaches too frequently at this level just begs disaster. The players need to practice a style of play until it is second nature to them. Until they do what they practice at training, in a match without conscious thought.

See how Geelong clicked and suddenly their players all seemed to be champions. These are the same players as the year before - who were widely recognised as being promising but not anything special. This is because the club persisted with the process. They didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We have the talent and the coach to do an even better job than Geelong.
Just be patient.

 

[ChrisL#12]

We were lucky. We got in first and got the best available coach. None of those freed up have anything on Lyon. Not even Sheedy. I wouldn't be averse to having Sheedy in as a consultant tactical expert or some such role.

To chop and change coaches too frequently at this level just begs disaster. The players need to practice a style of play until it is second nature to them. Until they do what they practice at training, in a match without conscious thought.

See how Geelong clicked and suddenly their players all seemed to be champions. These are the same players as the year before - who were widely recognised as being promising but not anything special. This is because the club persisted with the process. They didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We have the talent and the coach to do an even better job than Geelong.
Just be patient.

Pure rubbish. We are getting worse, we all know it. Time for a change. Daniher would be a good move I think.

 

[Fryman]

Pure rubbish. We are getting worse, we all know it. Time for a change. Daniher would be a good move I think.

Daniher!! That's got to be a joke right.

There are only 2 coaches I would give Ross the flick for : Matthews and Malthouse. They're not going anywhere so we stick with Lyon for now.

 

[jerseygirl]

This isn't just a game, it's a business, right?

The business answer is to cut bait. I'm not an expert in knowing whether Ross Lyon is making a difference and still deserves consideration. But the evidence is that this is a team that is playing a type of football that's not winning them games. And from a business perspective, there are some great assets on this team that will not last forever and they're not being used effectively. What are St. Kilda's chances of the 8 this year? Certainly at this point, slim. If a new coach came in at the end of this year, it would have to mean a good 1/2 season next year for adjustments, etc., and most likely we're at the same point next year at mid-season as we are right now.

So I say ditch Lyon now - hire the best free coach out there at the moment, Sheedy, and let him have his adjustment time with the team in the second half of THIS season so this team is ready to go for a full '09.

And pay him whatever we have to.

There will be no premiership if all that occurs is giving chances over and over.