Some thoughts on the game...

[outback jack]

dyertribe, you wrote moloney, was he in the 2002 draft?

If he was he'd just about above to be the pick of the draft, i think he was a rookie listed player too. We need an agressive type like him

 

[snakebite01]

I take your point, but having been drafted at the end of 2001 and making his debut in 2002, it's fair to say that if not for injury (beyond his control) and form lapses (another issue entirely) he would be coming up on that 70-80 game mark some time later this season or early in the next, rather than currently sitting on the 20-25 he does now with the excuse of inexperience (with some merit) to fall back on.

To put Reilly's lack of games and relative inexperience into perspective, fellow 2001 first rounders Luke Hodge, Luke Ball, Chris Judd, Richie Cole and Nick Dal Santo have all either reached 50 games or are a few games shy of the milestone.

We can look at this discrepancy a number of ways. In his defence we can say that Reilly has a season's worth of match experience to catch up on, and as you say, a fairer indication of his potential and ability will be in a year's time when he has those extra matches under his belt. Or we can take a more critical stance and say hey the injuries are unlucky, but the fact remains he's been around the club long enough since his debut - the honeymoon is over and he simply has to polish up his game sooner rather the later to not only catch up upon his draft class, but more importantly, become a key contributor for our club.

Though valid to an extent, to further undermine the 'inexperience/lack of games' defence, there's also the matter of subsequent AFL draftees such as Sam Mitchell, Adam Cooney, Daniel Wells, Aaron Davey, Brent Moloney, Beau Waters, Kane Tenace, Byron Schammer, Adrian DeLuca, Jared Rivers, et al. all having arguably (in some cases, undeniably in others) a greater impact on games in their careers to date.

Endgame, I don't think it's too much to expect so much from a player who has had big wraps slapped on him from day one (both by the club and the very supporters who are now vehemently defending him) and we've waited this long for him to produce. By your fourth year in the comp you should be looking to really go forward - noone is hammering a first gamer or second-year player here like the tone of recent posts would seem to suggest.



This is not meant to be a criticism of Reilly, but I'd say that's more of an indictment on the lack of progress of our subsequent draftees and recruiting practices in recent years - 2002 in particular - the dead horse has long since been flogged, but you simply wouldn't have made this statement had we cooled our jets after sending Sugar home and drafted Wells, for instance.

Yep, some great points DT.

You're right, the "inexperience" tag that Reilly get's the benefit of is somewhat a cop-out for him. At 21 going on 22 he should be starting to produce for a first round draft pick but even so you just can't buy AFL experience and this is what Reilly has lacked in his time. Players like Cooney, Wells, Judd and Ball, you would expect to develop quicker, top 3 draft picks are generally pretty ready to play. (And BTW Richie Cole may have reached the 50 game milestone but geez he's got way more flaws than Reilly - did he pick a ball up cleanly on the weekend?)

Some mid-first round draft picks just come in and blossom from day 1 - Schammer, Waters, Tenace are testament to this but guys like Dal Santo didn't really start having an impact until he reached between 20-30 games. Last year and the last 5 games of '03 he really started to take off but that was only because the Saints had given him so many games - really what we should have done with Reilly.

Reilly has shown glimpses and probably I'm willing to give him a bit of slack more because I'm hoping he comes good. But I agree with you, he has to begin to show it on a consistent basis. IMO, if he is going to reach the standard of his fellow 2001 draft class (ie Dal Santo) then by year's end he will need to be displaying the sort of form that Dal Santo started showing at the end of the '03 season.

 

[fentanyl]

like all matches, there were postitives and negatives to take out.

i like how hentschel stood up and kicked truly when required.

mcleod had one of his best games in a very long time.

our key position defenders performed well.


welll, how bout some negatives:
ricciuto has been a legend of loyal servant of this footy club, but some of his disposals under pressure are poor and unbecoming of a player of his class. however, his value overall over-rides this.

there are a number of players who are possibly on their last year with the crows. doughty: he lacks basic defensive skills, can't win the hard ball, and has probably the poorest disposal in the side. his kicks the ball too high. wot he is doing in the side, i really do wonder.
skipworth: not tough enuff and no composure on the ball.

mark stevens is a player i really admire but he did look out of his depth on sunday.

a lot of you doughty fans are gonna be on my back, i know. there are a lot of you out there.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

like all matches, there were postitives and negatives to take out.

i like how hentschel stood up and kicked truly when required.

mcleod had one of his best games in a very long time.

our key position defenders performed well.


welll, how bout some negatives:
ricciuto has been a legend of loyal servant of this footy club, but some of his disposals under pressure are poor and unbecoming of a player of his class. however, his value overall over-rides this.

there are a number of players who are possibly on their last year with the crows. doughty: he lacks basic defensive skills, can't win the hard ball, and has probably the poorest disposal in the side. his kicks the ball too high. wot he is doing in the side, i really do wonder.
skipworth: not tough enuff and no composure on the ball.

mark stevens is a player i really admire but he did look out of his depth on sunday.

a lot of you doughty fans are gonna be on my back, i know. there are a lot of you out there.

No doubt some good points. Welcome aboard mate.

 

[marvin]

Yep, some great points DT.

You're right, the "inexperience" tag that Reilly get's the benefit of is somewhat a cop-out for him. At 21 going on 22 he should be starting to produce for a first round draft pick but even so you just can't buy AFL experience and this is what Reilly has lacked in his time. Players like Cooney, Wells, Judd and Ball, you would expect to develop quicker, top 3 draft picks are generally pretty ready to play. (And BTW Richie Cole may have reached the 50 game milestone but geez he's got way more flaws than Reilly - did he pick a ball up cleanly on the weekend?)

Some mid-first round draft picks just come in and blossom from day 1 - Schammer, Waters, Tenace are testament to this but guys like Dal Santo didn't really start having an impact until he reached between 20-30 games. Last year and the last 5 games of '03 he really started to take off but that was only because the Saints had given him so many games - really what we should have done with Reilly.

Reilly has shown glimpses and probably I'm willing to give him a bit of slack more because I'm hoping he comes good. But I agree with you, he has to begin to show it on a consistent basis. IMO, if he is going to reach the standard of his fellow 2001 draft class (ie Dal Santo) then by year's end he will need to be displaying the sort of form that Dal Santo started showing at the end of the '03 season.

I agree with you on Reilly. I thought his game on Sunday was solid without being dominant, and when the forwards were playing WWE with Presti and Wakelin, he was trying to push up into the 50 as a crumber or into space wider on the ground, as he did successfully when he kicked the goal in the 2nd term. He burnt it a few times, but so did Thompson, and we're all loving him this week even though statistically Reilly was probably better (15 possies / 4 marks / 1 goal / 3 tackles to 15 / 0 / 0 / 1).

As for your points that I highlighted in bold, that's why I have argued vehemently, and will continue to argue, that an apprenticeship in the SANFL for Meesen and Van Berlo is not justified. We've got to get those first 20-30 games into them ASAP.

 

[crowsarethebest]

For some reason our draftees develop slower than most clubs. One of the reasons are that we do not give enough game time for youngsters at AFL level and they find it tough to get to the pace after a year of 2 at SANFL level. The more games they play at AFL level they will understand more and be able to keep up.

 

[Damp Squarie]

doughty: he lacks basic defensive skills, can't win the hard ball, and has probably the poorest disposal in the side. his kicks the ball too high. wot he is doing in the side, i really do wonder.

a lot of you doughty fans are gonna be on my back, i know. there are a lot of you out there.

I watched the replay of the game again and I couldnt help but notice the body language and mood of Doughty at siren time.

He really did look like a player from the losing side not the winning side.
Maybe he was given a bake at 3/4 time?

Ive always been a fan of most Crow players and Doughty is no exception.
Hell bounce back this week.

 

[macca23]

I watched the replay of the game again and I couldnt help but notice the body language and mood of Doughty at siren time.

He really did look like a player from the losing side not the winning side.
Maybe he was given a bake at 3/4 time?

Ive always been a fan of most Crow players and Doughty is no exception.
Hell bounce back this week.

Solid point TJ.

I picked that up myself as well - he had a really hang dog look about him.

I think he must have copped a heap of flak for that pathetic almost non-attempt to spoil ....... grrrrrr!! Still makes me mad!!

Whatever he got, he deserved though.

 

[EagleEye]

First off, my observation of Reilly had him compared to Aaron Fiora.

Secondly, you must have a funking low opinion of Fiora if you're calling this analogy 'character assassination'. More on that later.

Thirdly and lastly, I compared Reilly to Fiora based on playing similarities, backgrounds and what he achieved so far compared to the ex-Port Magpie at the same stage of their respective careers. Here's my reasoning:

# Both Fiora and Reilly were highly rated as youngsters, both going as first round draft picks. Fiora at #3 in the 1999 draft and Reilly at #12 in the 2001 draft. Fiora carries the burden of being selected right before Pavlich, Reilly carries the burden of being selected right before Dal Santo.

# Both Fiora and Reilly have tremendous kicking ability and balance, but are yet to find the niche that would allow them to use their skills to greatest possible effect. Both have spent their careers as bits and pieces men, rotating through the flanks and midfield, without ever nailing their colours to the mast in one particular position, let alone consistently fulfilling their potential, despite the odd glimpse here and there.Reilly has only played 20 odd games!

# Both are extremely limited defensively and are highly questionable overhead, despite spending plenty of time on the half-back flank. If u were a genuine supporter you would know Reilly is extremely good over his head, when he was recruited it was a major credential! Ask Fanta!

# Despite supposedly being able to run hard and fast all day, both look slow and spent while carrying the ball or running off it at times.

# It is also worth noting (regarding your aversion to this comparison) that at the same stage of their careers Fiora had more runs on the board as Reilly, as far as games played - injuries noted - and consistent statistical output goes, however Reilly has that Rising Star nod against Melbourne. While statistics and award nominations aren't everything, their styles of play are oddly similar as outlined above.Reilly's Rising Star nomination wasnt against Melbourne! Jay Shultz got it that round when he kicked 6 against Brisbane!

# After slow but gradual improvement over his first four seasons in the system, Fiora declined before eventually moving to St. Kilda. Reilly struggled to put any runs on the board in his first two years before his breakthrough game against Melbourne and subsequent improvement last year. He has looked ok with the odd hiccup so far this season, but hyperbole ("he's our next captain") and raw assumptions ("he'll come good because he looks good") aside, questions still remain over his long-term role and ability to be the key contributor we need him to be... and we have to ask them. For too long both we as supporters and the club in general have excused poor performances, chronic underperformers and players in danger of stagnating or going backwards.

As for lumping me in with others that have been overly critical of the youngsters (if this wasn't your intention and you only meant to call me out on Reilly, I apologise), please note that I rated Hentschel, Rutten and Thompson's games and went so far as to give Mattner BTM votes.

Ah good hearty footy debate!

Mate you are a dead set joke arent u??

I cant believe what i'm reading! If what u have written is true and you believe that, then u cant call yourself an adelaide supporter!

 

[outback jack]

Mate you are a dead set joke arent u??

i found this line amusing.......

I cant believe what i'm reading! If what u have written is true and you believe that, then u cant call yourself an adelaide supporter!

i agree that these essays he has a tendency of writing are 70% shi te, but i read through that and most is on the mark, reilly and fiora are reasonable examples. Both are soft as sh ite, have good disposal, questionable ball getting abilities and both were early picks. Also, both are at a club where a lot is expected of them. It is time for him to perform. What dont you agree with? was that you that added the bold writing?

 

[Markthirtytwo]

i found this line amusing.......

These words still ringing in your ears?

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Mate you are a dead set joke arent u??

I cant believe what i'm reading! If what u have written is true and you believe that, then u cant call yourself an adelaide supporter!

Will the real Jack Did it please stand up.

 

[macca23]

i agree that these essays he has a tendency of writing are 70% shi te, but i read through that and most is on the mark

I'm slightly confused jack.

If you think that 70% of what DT writes is shi te, then how can you go on to say that most of it is on the mark?

Or is this where the origin of the expression "man, that's good sh*t" comes from?

 

[outback jack]

These words still ringing in your ears?

not exactly those words, but something along those lines.

 

[outback jack]

I'm slightly confused jack.

If you think that 70% of what DT writes is shi te, then how can you go on to say that most of it is on the mark?

Or is this where the origin of the expression "man, that's good sh*t" comes from?

maybe 50%, and shi te is a little harsh, dribble is more accurate, those essays can get a little long. But i read through the reilly comparison and all the points are reasonable, dont you think? Reilly has to show what he can do. Oh and his dislike and blatant bias against JB annoys me.

 

[outback jack]

Will the real Jack Did it please stand up.

I think you will find that Jack_did_it has been banned. Apparently, for comments on byron pickett that were considered slightly racist by the port board, which in hindsight turned out to be quite true.

 

[tribey]

maybe 50%, and shi te is a little harsh,

The 50% you disagree with I'm sure.

dribble is more accurate, those essays can get a little long.

My apologies. Will endeavour to post in comicbook form more often.

 

[- PC -]

My apologies. Will endeavour to post in comicbook form more often.

Be like Zeke ..use pictures next time

 

[tribey]

I cant believe what i'm reading! If what u have written is true and you believe that, then u cant call yourself an adelaide supporter!

I assume because I have offered a critical analysis of an AFC player's ability, in this case Reilly?

By your logic there'd be very few visitors to this board able to call themselves Adelaide supporters then.

 

[tribey]

... use pictures next time

Hey, it's won me Musashi in the past

 

[outback jack]

The 50% you disagree with I'm sure.

what does this mean??

My apologies. Will endeavour to post in comicbook form more often.

sarcasm?

relax, if you read it i actually supported you on reilly. JB is another matter.