Autopsy "Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn".

[mike123]

How exactly does using Young for set shot kick outs deprive us of his speed for the other 99% (or thereabouts) of the match?

On average there's likely to be 5-6 of these a game. If Young takes all of them and has the ball in his hand for an average of 5 seconds for each of them (the umpires allow 7 seconds before moving them on) that leaves him unable to "give our midfield some much needed speed" for a total of roughly 1-2 minutes with the rest of the time being taken up by him moving into position further afield.

I really struggle to see how that loss of 1% of game time will offset the gain we make from having him in a position to clear the defensive zone of the oppositon from kick outs.

Jarrad McVeigh, Sam Mitchell, Hamish Hartlett, Bryce Gibbs, Brett Deledio and Pierce Handley are all examples of players that are probably better used in other positions, however find/ found themselves on a halfback flank in order to develop their games or provide support to the back 6. Fasolo will help us become a better team and by association become better and more rounded player long term if he moves to a half back flank and then the middle of the ground.

All right set shots is fine now we need a guy to do the other ones.

 

[Jonno94]

Did anyone watch Brent Guerra in the Prelim Final last year? Fasolo has very similar traits to him, a very strong body, excellent skills with a long penetrating kick, ability to take the game on, good overhead but average pace. If Fasolo can develop his game to that of Guerra's, he will be far more valuable as a defender and will fill a huge void for us.

 

[TradeDraft]

We need to improve our Consistency and play more then just 1 QTR

 

[BEEG]

I would add that our delivery inside 50 is the worst in the league we just bomb it i would be happy to turn it over trying to hit a lead then just bomb it in

 

[MeisterBot]

We have Lumumba, Young, Seedsman, Langdon, Sharenberg and Williams. I think we are fine on Defender/Mids

A player who no longer plays in the back line, Clinton Young, a player recovering from surgery, a player with 1 game, another player recovering from surgery and a guy who may be spending the latter half of the season in prison.

At least we still have Clarke and Armstrong.

 

[TradeDraft]

I would add that our delivery inside 50 is the worst in the league we just bomb it i would be happy to turn it over trying to hit a lead then just bomb it in

That would also help

 

[rustyg70]

I would add that our delivery inside 50 is
the worst in the league we just bomb it i would be happy to turn it over trying to hit a lead then just bomb it in

You've just nailed it there.
If we could just get our players to lower their eyes when coming inside 50 instead of bombing it high and long to Cloke and or the goal square, we would be far more productive infront of goals.
Players like Dwyer are so good at that skill.
I'd love to know how many shots at goals he set up last year.

It is far to easy for a defender to kill the ball over the line after we go long and deep, then reload with a quick kick in while our players are out of position.

The forwards have also got to learn to time their leads, so they end up around the 25-45 metre mark with about a 45 degree arc.
Going long and wide just gives the opposition time to run in and fill the spaces inside 50.

 

[Big Bryza]

Could not agree more with this one. Our players do not seem to have the discipline not to get sucked into the contest and stick to their man/structure. So many times we seem to just chase the ball with their player feeding it to the loose player to clear. Is it that hard to not do that?

I will also add running fitness to the learning as we seem to be no way near as fit as we used to be in 2010/11. How can Port Adelaide over take us in that department with our facilities & abundance of funds available to find the best fitness staff out there?

One word- injuries.

If blokes keep breaking down its mighty hard to get them up to their optimal fitness levels.

 

[Likitysplit]

After reading these threads, I just hope everyone down at the club felt as much heartbreak as we all did on Friday night and are doing everything in there power to make sure we deliver against Sydney. I don't mind losing If It looks as though we are giving it our all.

 

[Big Bryza]

Did anyone watch Brent Guerra in the Prelim Final last year? Fasolo has very similar traits to him, a very strong body, excellent skills with a long penetrating kick, ability to take the game on, good overhead but average pace. If Fasolo can develop his game to that of Guerra's, he will be far more valuable as a defender and will fill a huge void for us.

Guerra started his career as a forward too. I recall him kicking a bag of 7 for St Kilda back in about 2005. I'd be more than happy for Fasolo to tread a similar career path.

 

[jonbe54]

After reading these threads, I just hope everyone down at the club felt as much heartbreak as we all did on Friday night and are doing everything in there power to make sure we deliver against Sydney. I don't mind losing If It looks as though we are giving it our all.

What makes you think otherwise?

Of course there is soul searching going on but it will be intelligent and informed, unlike the ranting and breast beating going on here.

Seriously we were never a real chance even before the loss of White and Reid destroyed our structures, anyone who didn't fear a spanking going into the game that night was deluding themselves. The magnitude of the loss was more than could be expected of a MATURE team but not for one with serious structural deficiencies due to injuries and also one very young in both years and experience.

Nobody is happy about such loses, they are soul destroying but a level headed evaluation shows the result was not as shocking as some here state.

 

[No SPIN]

We have the 6th youngest list and blooded more kids last year than GWS - blending youth and experience takes time.
The experienced lads will take time to develop confidence in their young team mates and play less instinctive and more cautious football until then.

Similarly the kids will take time to feel they belong and be confident in playing at the top level and executing the game plan.
Then combine all this with the massive expectation of the Magpie supporter base and we get huge pressure on all parts of the club and player group.

We simply need to ask the question - are the kids capable of growing into their prospective positions - I think the answer is yes except for the x factor small forward. Most here suggest it's BK but he does not sell candy anywhere near as well as either Leon or Krakouer.

And the only other concern is Midfield size - because FREO have brutes, and many other team are heading in the same direction.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Bring back Leon

 

[mike123]

Bring back Leon

I'd actually rather that than Brad

 

[doppleganger]

It is by no means panic stations just yet.

I'd like to see Swan moved across HB, he reads the play so well and is a great mark and rarely beaten one on one....could set us up from the HB line.

We are also missing, Seedsman and Williams, who would probably have been the two attacking HBFs if fit/able to play....

 

[Premier Pies]

It is by no means panic stations just yet.

I'd like to see Swan moved across HB, he reads the play so well and is a great mark and rarely beaten one on one....could set us up from the HB line.

Swan moved to HB is a terrible idea. He is not know for his great kicking ability or efficiency, so to suggest he could set us up from the HB line is a fallacy. Agreed that he reads the play well, is a good mark and rarely gets beaten one on one though.

 

[esc0bar]

Swan moved to HB is a terrible idea. He is not know for his great kicking ability or efficiency, so to suggest he could set us up from the HB line is a fallacy. Agreed that he reads the play well, is a good mark and rarely gets beaten one on one though.

Fallacy? Swan has a great kick. What you are used to seeing from Swan is rushed kicks from the centre clearance. He is normally well composed and would suit a change to the HB. I am not agreeing with this move, however to say Swan has a bad kicking efficiency without putting it into context is ignorant. That game against Port Adelaide a few years back at Adelaide oval during 2011 showed why this move isn't such a bad idea. He was intercepting absolutely everything that came his way in horrendous weather. Saved the game for us.

 

[Premier Pies]

Fallacy? Swan has a great kick. What you are used to seeing from Swan is rushed kicks from the centre clearance. He is normally well composed and would suit a change to the HB. I am not agreeing with this move, however to say Swan has a bad kicking efficiency without putting it into context is ignorant. That game against Port Adelaide a few years back at Adelaide oval during 2011 showed why this move isn't such a bad idea. He was intercepting absolutely everything that came his way in horrendous weather. Saved the game for us.

agree to disagree?

 

[Premier Pies]

Fallacy? Swan has a great kick. What you are used to seeing from Swan is rushed kicks from the centre clearance. He is normally well composed and would suit a change to the HB. I am not agreeing with this move, however to say Swan has a bad kicking efficiency without putting it into context is ignorant. That game against Port Adelaide a few years back at Adelaide oval during 2011 showed why this move isn't such a bad idea. He was intercepting absolutely everything that came his way in horrendous weather. Saved the game for us.

I'll also add that I never said that Swan has a bad kicking efficiency. I merely said that he is not known for his great kicking ability or efficiency because as you stated in your post, Swan is known for his rushed kicks from the centre clearances.

The game you have singled out to support your argument is just one game in isolation and it was three seasons ago. Not really a strong argument.

 

[neilk]

Foot skills.
We have very few elite kicks in our squad. Whether in play or set shots for goal. It's been this way for a long time but not easy to fix other than over time through the draft.

How many players could you bank on kicking a set shot goal from 40m ? Not too many.

But every club has it's strengths and weaknesses and I'm still generally bullish about our short-medium term future.

Luke Ball used to be a sure thing from that range but now even he is no certainty.

 

[MeisterBot]

Teams tend to put their most creative and elite kicking (surplus) mids behind the ball. Sydney put McVeigh, Geelong put Bartel, Hawthorn put Burgoyne/Hodge/Mitchell, etc. While Swan would get a fair amount of kicks playing as HBF, he wouldn't do a lot with them. His kicking is better than commonly believed, but he is most damaging when he uses his burst speed to break open a stoppage and get a clearance into F50.

His strengths better translate in the forward line, where he can use his burst speed to beat defenders on the lead, and his supreme 1v1 ability to beat them in the air or on the deck. Not to mention how dangerous he can be in F50 stoppage situations.

If we want to put someone behind the ball to be a playmaker, we only have Pendles and Fasolo as experienced/hardened bodies. Sidebottom is weak 1v1, will get burnt on the lead and not damaging enough to be a genuine playmaker. He did well as a floater due to his running power/endurance. But again, I'd rather see him in the forward line as a creative HFF pushing up to the wing and back to the goal square. As a short kicker, he does well to draw people out on the lead, but coming out of half back that often leads to a slow play. Whereas in the forward half, that often leads to a set shot.

 

[mike123]

Teams tend to put their most creative and elite kicking (surplus) mids behind the ball. Sydney put McVeigh, Geelong put Bartel, Hawthorn put Burgoyne/Hodge/Mitchell, etc. While Swan would get a fair amount of kicks playing as HBF, he wouldn't do a lot with them. His kicking is better than commonly believed, but he is most damaging when he uses his burst speed to break open a stoppage and get a clearance into F50.

His strengths better translate in the forward line, where he can use his burst speed to beat defenders on the lead, and his supreme 1v1 ability to beat them in the air or on the deck. Not to mention how dangerous he can be in F50 stoppage situations.

If we want to put someone behind the ball to be a playmaker, we only have Pendles and Fasolo as experienced/hardened bodies. Sidebottom is weak 1v1, will get burnt on the lead and not damaging enough to be a genuine playmaker. He did well as a floater due to his running power/endurance. But again, I'd rather see him in the forward line as a creative HFF pushing up to the wing and back to the goal square. As a short kicker, he does well to draw people out on the lead, but coming out of half back that often leads to a slow play. Whereas in the forward half, that often leads to a set shot.

Bartel cost Geelong a grandfinal appearance. He gave Hill a goal and I've seen mistakes from him like that a fair few times.

 

[MeisterBot]

Bartel cost Geelong a grandfinal appearance. He gave Hill a goal and I've seen mistakes from him like that a fair few times.

Players make mistakes. It happens. Are we seriously arguing Bartel is not a good player?

Has 3 premierships, 2 AAs, a Brownlow, a Norm Smith and is the big game specialist in the league. Probably past his prime, but my point is still valid.

 

[mike123]

Players make mistakes. It happens. Are we seriously arguing Bartel is not a good player?

Has 3 premierships, 2 AAs, a Brownlow, a Norm Smith and is the big game specialist in the league. Probably past his prime, but my point is still valid.

I never said he wasn't a good player but he made those mistakes because he wasn't a defender.

 

[piedpiper32]

While Swan would get a fair amount of kicks playing as HBF, he wouldn't do a lot with them. His kicking is better than commonly believed, but he is most damaging when he uses his burst speed to break open a stoppage and get a clearance into F50.

His strengths better translate in the forward line, where he can use his burst speed to beat defenders on the lead, and his supreme 1v1 ability to beat them in the air or on the deck. Not to mention how dangerous he can be in F50 stoppage situations.

I would like to see Swan played a lot more up forward. We have a plethora of mids now. Swan's quickness off the mark, strength, and marking would really add another dimension to our forward line. His supposed weakness with two-way running would also be less of an issue. We would still have the option of putting him through the middle in really short bursts.

Last 4 seasons he has kicked 24, 32, 25, and 21 goals primarily playing mid. Could easily get to 40+ spending more time forward which would put him in the Top 5 non-KPF goal kickers last season. He would be a matchup nightmare for the opposition.