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Stats, never lie?

  • Thread starter Thread starter thegerman
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Interesting. Herald Sun credited him with two. I have generally found Game Day live stats to be pretty unreliable.

One or two clangers though, honestly, we wouldn't even be talking about this if it was any other player.
 

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My5t3r10u5 said:
If it's the kick I think you are talking about, I thought that was Stokes. Anyone want to confirm?
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Nope, just watched the game again (definitely Tenace), as I had missed the first half, happened with 8m19s in the third. Turnover city.

The handball which lead directly to a Port goal was in traffic, which seems to be his problem with hand skills.
 
catempire said:
Interesting. Herald Sun credited him with two. I have generally found Game Day live stats to be pretty unreliable.

One or two clangers though, honestly, we wouldn't even be talking about this if it was any other player.
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the source for the herald sun is Champion data which is official AFL, so go by that.
Look out for stats in the Age which is sourced from Pro Stats which is not official AFL
 
I guess the gameday stats are done on the fly so it's only if they decide its a clanger at the time, whereas the champion data/Hun/Age stats are reviewed and, I believe in the case of Champion Data, weighted.
 
Stokes kicked it to Chad Cornes in the last quarter to set him up for a 35 m shot which he missed

I can't recall the Tenace clanger but it wasn't as bad as Stokes's!
 
OldStyle2007 said:
Stokes kicked it to Chad Cornes in the last quarter to set him up for a 35 m shot which he missed

I can't recall the Tenace clanger but it wasn't as bad as Stokes's!
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I seem to remember Harls doing something similar in the first half.:mad:
 
A clanger is only when the error is unforced. Maybe the stats people thought that he was under enough pressure for the mistake to be forced.
 
rizzo said:
A clanger is only when the error is unforced. Maybe the stats people thought that he was under enough pressure for the mistake to be forced.
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I'm not sure that's right rizzo. I think a clanger is any possession that is turned over to the opposition + free kicks against.
 

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catempire said:
I'm not sure that's right rizzo. I think a clanger is any possession that is turned over to the opposition + free kicks against.
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Thats what i always thought until i was linked to this:

A clanger in Australian rules football refers to a turnover or a mistake made by a player when disposing of the ball. Its official but vague description in statistical tables is "blatant unforced errors, including out on the full." http://www.google.com.au/search?q=d...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
 
I think it depends on the interpretation of the people doing the stats.

It'd be a bit harsh to say that being tackled and getting a quick disposal out would be counted as a clanger if it went to the opposition.

I like the unforced error definition.
 
rizzo said:
Thats what i always thought until i was linked to this:

A clanger in Australian rules football refers to a turnover or a mistake made by a player when disposing of the ball. Its official but vague description in statistical tables is "blatant unforced errors, including out on the full." http://www.google.com.au/search?q=d...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
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Yeah, just not sure that this is the definition Champion Data use. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clanger
A clanger in Australian rules football is a term coined by Champion Data founder Ted Hopkins which refers to a turnover or a mistake made by a player. Its official but vague description in statistical tables is "errors including frees against".

Examples of clangers include,

Any blatant disposal turnover
Any free kick conceded
Dropped marks or fumbles under no pressure
50m penalties conceded
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The ambiguity over something like a clanger is pretty much why the use of stats can't be used as gospel, or so selectively, really.

Even how they assess something like disposal efficiency is questionable, to me. Does a handpass that hits a teammate on the chest count as efficient? Even if that teammate is surrounded by 3 opponents and slung to the ground within a mini-second of gaining possession? Not very efficient, I'd argue.

Conversely, what if, upon seeing nothing to their liking up field, a player proceeds to kick to space and let the ball bounce toward the line for a stoppage play? Depending on the context, I'd argue that isn't necessarily a 'clanger', and could very well be 'efficient' (even if the statisticians don't count it as so) use of the football.

The beauty of statistics.
 
Champion Data definitely count clangers as any possession that goes immediately to the opposition, regardless of whether it is forced or unforced.

If a handball hits an opponent on the chest and they get tackled and can't dispose of the ball then the initial handball is not counted as efficient.

Hope that helps to clear things up!
 

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