Stefan Martin

[Guy Threepwood]

I was aware that he was injured in 2012, hence me saying he barely played in 2012. Dawes when he is at his best is a fantastic asset. I can't even remember a time when Renouf and Blake were good players. Martin on the otherhand has not proven himself whatsoever, having a good season in 2011. Dawes 2010 and early 2011 was great.

So Dawes is proven based on a string of good games over a year ago, but Martin hasn't proven himself whatsoever based on a string of good games over a year ago? FWIW, I agree that many are under rating Dawes but your argument makes no sense.

 

[Morro]

I believe we should be chasing Martin hard. Would pick 30 ish get it done?

 

[Upgrayedd]

I said when Dawes is at his best he is a great player for the side. Krakouer is a superstar, no disputing that.

Krakouer is not a superstar dude, I could name 5 crumming small forwards better then Krackouer, he's a decent player, but lets not lie.

 

[Tulip]

I believe we should be chasing Martin hard. Would pick 30 ish get it done?

Nah. Far too valuable for a pick like 30. 15-20 for a young first ruck.

 

[Morro]

Nah. Far too valuable for a pick like 30. 15-20 for a young first ruck.

Yeah I probably thought more like mid 20's due to his versatility but we got Maric for 37 so not sure we would pay those types of picks.

Thought it worth asking based on the rumours being bandied.

 

[millsy29gopies]

Bigfooty logic - Completely dismisses injuries when judging a players worth

Haven't you seen my other posts? I've clearly stated that I know he has had injuries this year.

So Dawes is proven based on a string of good games over a year ago, but Martin hasn't proven himself whatsoever based on a string of good games over a year ago? FWIW, I agree that many are under rating Dawes but your argument makes no sense.

Dawes is a premiership player and he certainly contributed his fair share to it. He also started 2011 in blistering form before getting injured. Martin has had one above par season.

Krakouer is not a superstar dude, I could name 5 crumming small forwards better then Krackouer, he's a decent player, but lets not lie.

I reckon he is but hey thats just my opinion and I probably am biased. We certainly didn't see the best of him this season due to his injury.

 

[Shade]

Yeah I probably thought more like mid 20's due to his versatility but we got Maric for 37 so not sure we would pay those types of picks.

Thought it worth asking based on the rumours being bandied.

Why would richmond want him your mob has Maric and Vickery dont think martin would want to play VFL.

 

[Morro]

Why would richmond want him your mob has Maric and Vickery dont think martin would want to play VFL.

We have nothing after those 2. Vickery is not a great ruckman yet. I would play Vicks as a permanent fwd and use Martin as the ruck fwd swapping with Maric. If Maric went down. Our seasons is shot.

 

[Jab]

Just a friendly reminder. Trolling another poster or the club that they support will not be embraced, as you can probably imagine. Things are getting a little off track here, consider this a friendly reminder of what is expected. You all know what's expected.

 

[aussierulesrules]

We have nothing after those 2. Vickery is not a great ruckman yet. I would play Vicks as a permanent fwd and use Martin as the ruck fwd swapping with Maric. If Maric went down. Our seasons is shot.

You invested a first round DP on Todd Elton last year as well though and he is another who is around 198cm and plays forward and can presumably pinch-hit in the ruck. You'd be backing him to play plenty of footy reasonably soon, so Martin wouldn't want to end up behind Vickery and him.

 

[Ghost of Grinter]

I don't think Stef Martin would end up behind Vickery.

Gee, give Martin a bit of credit!

 

[aussierulesrules]

Vickery is OK, no worse than Martin. Apparently he was playing with an injury that wasn't made public earlier this season, which they reckon is the reason he struggled so much. Wouldn't surprise me if he comes out and has a good one next year. Vickery is miles ahead of where Martin was at the same age.

 

[Scodog10]

I said when Dawes is at his best he is a great player for the side. Krakouer is a superstar, no disputing that.

Yes there is. Ablett superstar, Buddy superstar, Pendles superstar and Krackouer good footballer nothing more.

I'd be happy with Martin at the pies for the right deal. With Dawes contracted a straight up swap for the two isn't right and pick 39 won't get it done so maybe pick 13 and Martin for pick 18 and Dawes with pick exchanges later on such as our second rounder for their Maloney/ Rivers compo if it's second round.

So in essence:

Picks 13 + 27 + Martin for picks 18 + 39 + Dawes.

It may work even if it does seem slight overs for Dawes, but with him being contracted I think the pies will hold onto him unless it's a sweetheart deal.

 

[Tazwegian]

Yes there is. Ablett superstar, Buddy superstar, Pendles superstar and Krackouer good footballer nothing more.

I'd be happy with Martin at the pies for the right deal. With Dawes contracted a straight up swap for the two isn't right and pick 39 won't get it done so maybe pick 13 and Martin for pick 18 and Dawes with pick exchanges later on such as our second rounder for their Maloney/ Rivers compo if it's second round.

So in essence:

Picks 13 + 27 + Martin for picks 18 + 39 + Dawes.

It may work even if it does seem slight overs for Dawes, but with him being contracted I think the pies will hold onto him unless it's a sweetheart deal.

No chance in hell I'd give that for Dawes. I'd offer 27 and Martin for 39 and Dawes. Tops.

 

[aussierulesrules]

It seems like Melbourne have a huge hard-on for Dawes. I feel even worse for those who support them now. As if they haven't had enough to put up with in recent times!

It's not necessarily that I think Dawes is horribly bad (although he was this year, even Kosi kicked double the goals per game, as did Wilkes, who we stuffed around a lot early), but more that they seem willing to pay massive "overs" for him.

Surely they could find someone in the state leagues who has a big body like him and is good, but has a deficiency (like Dawes does with overhead marking). That way they would save themselves a huge amount of money and a high DP.

 

[Scodog10]

No chance in hell I'd give that for Dawes. I'd offer 27 and Martin for 39 and Dawes. Tops.

That's fair enough as I said it is overs. I do find it odd though that you'd go with the larger upgrade than the smaller one. With the evenness of the top 20 this year a 5 pick move either way is a bit of a nothing move but a 12 pick upgrade from late 30's into the 20's would be significant IMO and the part that I considered overs.

 

[Tazwegian]

That's fair enough as I said it is overs. I do find it odd though that you'd go with the larger upgrade than the smaller one. With the evenness of the top 20 this year a 5 pick move either way is a bit of a nothing move but a 12 pick upgrade from late 30's into the 20's would be significant IMO and the part that I considered overs.

I said "tops". I think it would be relatively fair though, because I don't rate Martin, and I think Dawes could contribute to Melbourne. So it wouldn't be a horrible trade. A second round pick on its own wouldn't be the worst trade for Dawes, it would be overs, but considering Dawes is a ready made premiership player, and that most picks around 27 don't end up being as good as him, I think it would be fair. So to get 39 on top of that just sweetens it. And Martin is neither here nor there for me. I'd prefer to keep pick 13 if I were Melbourne.

 

[Demonheart]

Haven't you seen my other posts? I've clearly stated that I know he has had injuries this year.

Which makes your previous post even more confusing, if you knew then why did you post it?

 

[Morro]

You invested a first round DP on Todd Elton last year as well though and he is another who is around 198cm and plays forward and can presumably pinch-hit in the ruck. You'd be backing him to play plenty of footy reasonably soon, so Martin wouldn't want to end up behind Vickery and him.

Yeah true. But he is all potential right now and could take a few years. No guarantees mate.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Yeah true. But he is all potential right now and could take a few years. No guarantees mate.

I realise that and if you were in genuine premiership contention next year then going after Martin would make more sense, but given that your likely to need another couple of years for your list to get that experience up, I would just be backing Vickery and Elton to develop in that time and I would want to get plenty of games into them, rather than having either of them getting kept out of it by Martin.

 

[TheBoss]

Am I the only Dees supporter who would rather keep Martin and trade Jamar? Martin offers more around the ground, and excelled when he was given the number one rucking job when Jamar was injured. Plus, Jamar will be too old by the time (hopefully) Melbourne makes a tilt at the flag.

 

[Morro]

I realise that and if you were in genuine premiership contention next year then going after Martin would make more sense, but given that your likely to need another couple of years for your list to get that experience up, I would just be backing Vickery and Elton to develop in that time and I would want to get plenty of games into them, rather than having either of them getting kept out of it by Martin.

Fair call but as I said I would let Vickery stay fwd. So only Elton would be left out who will be let out anyway IMO. Needs a few years and still who knows if he will make it.

 

[Tulip]

That's fair enough as I said it is overs. I do find it odd though that you'd go with the larger upgrade than the smaller one. With the evenness of the top 20 this year a 5 pick move either way is a bit of a nothing move but a 12 pick upgrade from late 30's into the 20's would be significant IMO and the part that I considered overs.

Martin is also contracted.

 

[Tulip]

Am I the only Dees supporter who would rather keep Martin and trade Jamar? Martin offers more around the ground, and excelled when he was given the number one rucking job when Jamar was injured. Plus, Jamar will be too old by the time (hopefully) Melbourne makes a tilt at the flag.

No.

But it'd be rough to trade him after the loyalty shown both ways.

 

[cma6]

I think the Hawks should at least have a look at him. He is 198cm, 103kg and moves well. He is much better equipped physically to play on the gorillas than a Shoenmakers or Gibson and he would come with a reasonable price tag.

To get the deal done maybe something like below? The Hawks probably pay overs but it could be worth it.

Melbourne
In: Dawes
Out: Martin, Pick 45
Get their KPP to play alongside Clarke without giving up key pieces.

Collingwood:
In: Pick 21
Out: Chris Dawes
Get a first rounder for their disgruntled forward who had a horrible year.

Hawthorn:
In: Martin, Pick 45
Out: Pick 21
Give up a first rounder to fill a need. Downgrade their pick significantly but have a good record of finding gold in the 40's (Stratton 46 2009, Dew 45 2007, Kennedy F/S 40, Mark Williams 43 2000, Chance Bateman 48 1999). All of those blokes have played in a GF, all but Stratton have a Premiership - Kennedy !
On the flip side our history with pick 21 in recent times is Nick Ries 2000, Tom Murphy 2004.