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CoggaRules

CoggaRules

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Was listening to the sports news this morning and they went to the NRL update and were talking about how the West Tiger's coach is under the hammer and if they lose this week, it suggests he has lost the playing group and the message isnt being heard and will be gone. Why is it that in AFL there is this protective shield put on coaches when the NRL give them the boot straight away when the team isnt performing? Same with soccer, you have a team that was expected to do stuff and are shit, the manager gets the bullet asap and another takes over and game on...but in AFL its oh the players are the ones that are at fault and all that shit to continue protecting the coach.
 
CoggaRules said:
Was listening to the sports news this morning and they went to the NRL update and were talking about how the West Tiger's coach is under the hammer and if they lose this week, it suggests he has lost the playing group and the message isnt being heard and will be gone. Why is it that in AFL there is this protective shield put on coaches when the NRL give them the boot straight away when the team isnt performing? Same with soccer, you have a team that was expected to do stuff and are shit, the manager gets the bullet asap and another takes over and game on...but in AFL its oh the players are the ones that are at fault and all that shit to continue protecting the coach.
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Because its about being realistic and knowing where your list is at. Our list isnt worthy of top 4 (where premierships are won from) and you could argue its not top 8 material either.
The board know the list isnt good enough and sacking the coach isnt going to solve that problem.
Dimma might not be the best coach going around but he did get this list playing decent football and they made finals 3 years running.

Our problem is recruiting and development, Dimma hasnt got the cattle or enough help to develop the players that he does have.
 

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Bojangles17 said:
I can't accept our list is not top 8 when we came off a season winning 15 games and our best players are in prime of their career ,
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look at freo as well top of ladder last year and now get beat by blues in Perth and will most likely be 0-8 after 8 rounds.
 
ryza87 said:
Because its about being realistic and knowing where your list is at. Our list isnt worthy of top 4 (where premierships are won from) and you could argue its not top 8 material either.
The board know the list isnt good enough and sacking the coach isnt going to solve that problem.
Dimma might not be the best coach going around but he did get this list playing decent football and they made finals 3 years running.

Our problem is recruiting and development, Dimma hasnt got the cattle or enough help to develop the players that he does have.
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agree with your comments but DH had 7-8 years at the helm and could not get the list right. why should the club give him another go at rebuilding the list.?
7 years is a long time to get together a decent 22 and play strong footy. He seems to be favour blokes with effort than skill which is what we lack in our game plan. In my view, if the club announces a mini rebuild, they should tap the whole FD on shoulder and start fresh. our list is not bad and with a new plan, we can bounce back next year.
 
We have been blessed with minimal Injuries to key players for the past 3-4 years . Martin , cotch , Jack and Rance have missed very few games whilst lids has missed a few and we have suffered . Furthermore this year you add Edwards and we are shot . Our lack of depth is amplified in finals where clubs just sit on a couple and allow the remainder of their players to go head to head . Think people underestimate exactly how good our top 5 are and overrate the rest .
 
"The Roar Is Back" said:
We have been blessed with minimal Injuries to key players for the past 3-4 years . Martin , cotch , Jack and Rance have missed very few games whilst lids has missed a few and we have suffered . Furthermore this year you add Edwards and we are shot . Our lack of depth is amplified in finals where clubs just sit on a couple and allow the remainder of their players to go head to head . Think people underestimate exactly how good our top 5 are and overrate the rest .
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The list is no Olympic Diving Pool, that's for sure.

Having said that, it's not a conversation any Club should be having 7 years into a Coaching, Development and Recruitment regime. The talk of compromised drafts is over spoken, yes it hasn't helped. However 16 Clubs were effected by it and all of them are not having the same struggles. It could be a recruitment, development or both issue. Either way, it's not a good thing.
 
Bojangles17 said:
I can't accept our list is not top 8 when we came off a season winning 15 games and our best players are in prime of their career ,
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It's a different season. Lots of things change, some teams rise, some teams decline. And by saying the best players are in their prime, I assume you mean age wise because again that can be hard to gauge.
 
ryza87 said:
Because its about being realistic and knowing where your list is at. Our list isnt worthy of top 4 (where premierships are won from) and you could argue its not top 8 material either.
The board know the list isnt good enough and sacking the coach isnt going to solve that problem.
Dimma might not be the best coach going around but he did get this list playing decent football and they made finals 3 years running.

Our problem is recruiting and development, Dimma hasnt got the cattle or enough help to develop the players that he does have.
Click to expand...

Dimma identifies what TYPE of cattle he needs, then the recruiters go and find that TYPE of cattle, do you honestly believe that dimma is blameless in recruiting?

HE keeps on harping on about MY type of players , the Richmond way etc etc, he has a considerable say on which cattle are drafted. he wants a Brown dairy cow, they give him 4 brown cows to choose from bella, rosie stevie and matty, he choses bella over stevie, the recruiters and Danny discount go out and get bella.

They find that bella is useless, do they keep on hoping that bella becomes stevie? try to turn bella into a bull? or send bella to the abbatoir?

Of course they try and turn bella into a bull but don't realize she is missing some important bits.
 
Tiges1229 said:
look at freo as well top of ladder last year and now get beat by blues in Perth and will most likely be 0-8 after 8 rounds.
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when do they play us?
 
Bojangles17 said:
I can't accept our list is not top 8 when we came off a season winning 15 games and our best players are in prime of their career ,
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If that's they case and I agree with you why are we taking massive strides backwards? We both agree that we have enough cattle to be a top 8 side, perhaps not a top 4 but certainly not bottom 4 which is where we are and where we will stay if we play our current game Style.

my thoughts are well known whats yours Bo?
 

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The AFL tends to be a bit more think before you act than other football codes. Some of the soccer teams sack coaches when things don't go right straight away. Teams are built over time. Coaches are easy scapegoats.

For Dimma he has shown a very good ability to build a squad that is top 8 during tough times. But I would argue that he has also shown that he isn't a great game day/tactical coach. Some of the problems in the squad are due to bad luck, but some are due to drafting/trading. E.g. It took a long while to realize that we needed run and carry, or we just couldn't beat teams when the whips were cracking in finals. That shows a lack of reflexivity (the ability to think about what you are doing and thinking and to learn from that thinking about yourself). It was fairly obvious, even to a doofus like me, that we needed more depth inside and speed and skill outside. We selected player types other than these until end 2015, when it became really obvious that we needed these types to prosper. That shows IMHO that Dimma et al thought that as long as we played our style to the top of our game we would win. North really put that to sleep. They smashed us inside and showed we had quality cattle, but not enough. And when we had the ball often we couldn't break them open because they stopped our 'style'. Not hard for the North brains trust to work us out, and deal with our game plan. We simply didn't have the players to deal with what North did. Other top teams will also be able to stop our game by targeting our lack of depth in some areas.
This year we have the annual slow start. That should not happen twice, much less every year. I remember when Cuz was playing for us he had a word to Dimma and coaches and told them they were being too smart for the players. They had to simplify their message and plans so that the players could learn how to do the job. I suspect the over cleverness is still around. In the off season we get too smart and start poorly due to the players being given unclear instructions, not because the instructions are unclear, but because the players aren't smart enough to work it all out. Just my opinion, but we keep making mistakes that can only be due to the coaches over estimating themselves.

On the other hand when we have been on form we can beat anyone anywhere. that is my problem with saying 'sack Dimma'. There is lots of evidence that he can coach, and the club is heading in the right direction. But also lots of evidence that we are going nowhere. I get confused and want to wait to see what happens when we have a fit squad. :drunk::drunk::drunk:

I am quite likely wrong, but I reckon a fit Yaz, Lids, Ivan, and in form Townsend, Cotch, Moore, Miles, Houli would lead to us being a totally different team. Can only wait to see.
 
Dr Tigris said:
The AFL tends to be a bit more think before you act than other football codes. Some of the soccer teams sack coaches when things don't go right straight away. Teams are built over time. Coaches are easy scapegoats.

For Dimma he has shown a very good ability to build a squad that is top 8 during tough times. But I would argue that he has also shown that he isn't a great game day/tactical coach. Some of the problems in the squad are due to bad luck, but some are due to drafting/trading. E.g. It took a long while to realize that we needed run and carry, or we just couldn't beat teams when the whips were cracking in finals. That shows a lack of reflexivity (the ability to think about what you are doing and thinking and to learn from that thinking about yourself). It was fairly obvious, even to a doofus like me, that we needed more depth inside and speed and skill outside. We selected player types other than these until end 2015, when it became really obvious that we needed these types to prosper. That shows IMHO that Dimma et al thought that as long as we played our style to the top of our game we would win. North really put that to sleep. They smashed us inside and showed we had quality cattle, but not enough. And when we had the ball often we couldn't break them open because they stopped our 'style'. Not hard for the North brains trust to work us out, and deal with our game plan. We simply didn't have the players to deal with what North did. Other top teams will also be able to stop our game by targeting our lack of depth in some areas.
This year we have the annual slow start. That should not happen twice, much less every year. I remember when Cuz was playing for us he had a word to Dimma and coaches and told them they were being too smart for the players. They had to simplify their message and plans so that the players could learn how to do the job. I suspect the over cleverness is still around. In the off season we get too smart and start poorly due to the players being given unclear instructions, not because the instructions are unclear, but because the players aren't smart enough to work it all out. Just my opinion, but we keep making mistakes that can only be due to the coaches over estimating themselves.

On the other hand when we have been on form we can beat anyone anywhere. that is my problem with saying 'sack Dimma'. There is lots of evidence that he can coach, and the club is heading in the right direction. But also lots of evidence that we are going nowhere. I get confused and want to wait to see what happens when we have a fit squad. :drunk::drunk::drunk:

I am quite likely wrong, but I reckon a fit Yaz, Lids, Ivan, and in form Townsend, Cotch, Moore, Miles, Houli would lead to us being a totally different team. Can only wait to see.
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Are you putting these two in the category with the rest? Lids and Cotch are Elite full stop , the others are good players yarran is a lazy fat campaigner and the two I have highlighted are serviceable VFL players at best, no speed , no football brain no nous nada nothing zip, the fact that the coching staff rate them high enough to put into the senior side speaks volumes of where their minds are.
 
Ancient Tiger said:
Hasn't anyone stopped to think why GWS accepted pick 70 for Townsend and Port delisted Moore.......
Yet people thought they could just waltz into our senior team.....

LMAO
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Well it was clear they could waltz into the team, how they would play was what people got wrong.....
 

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Ancient Tiger said:
Hasn't anyone stopped to think why GWS accepted pick 70 for Townsend and Port delisted Moore.......
Yet people thought they could just waltz into our senior team.....

LMAO
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I guess youre agreeing with me
 
TiggerMan22 said:
GWS also delisted Miles. So....
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Big difference in past histories though......
Look at Miles' junior career. He was the best player in his zone time and time again. Won medals/trophies. They made a huge error delisting him. This makes Townsend's departure far less likely we would score again. GWS realised that they were wrong with Miles. They were not going to make the same mistake twice and thus by allowing him to leave for a low pick meant that they had done their due diligence and realised his disposal was a real issue. You don't win medals with disposal like Jacobs albeit he made the academy team (sole NSW kid to do that) and came second in GWS's under 18 b&f.
 
Ancient Tiger said:
Hasn't anyone stopped to think why GWS accepted pick 70 for Townsend
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Because they did the dodgy on us with Treloar and Gale was going to bring AFL House down and Matthews felt bad so we got him on the cheap. He'll be better once the team is better. With Titch and Milesy back in form, Lids back in the team and Cotch back somewhere around his grand self I think we're still going to be very impressed with young Jacob.

Ancient Tiger said:
Hasn't anyone stopped to think why Port delisted Moore.......
Click to expand...

Probably because he's a dud.
 
_DBF_ said:
Because they did the dodgy on us with Treloar and Gale was going to bring AFL House down and Matthews felt bad so we got him on the cheap. He'll be better once the team is better. With Titch and Milesy back in form, Lids back in the team and Cotch back somewhere around his grand self I think we're still going to be very impressed with young Jacob.



Probably because he's a dud.
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I could only like half your post.
 

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