Stud Poker and variants

[red+black]

Looks like there's no thread on Stud Poker. Was watching footage of Lisandro's win in the Seven Card Stud at this year's WSOP and admitting that there is a lot I don't know about the game. I could easily look this up, but maybe one of you can help out instead.

1. What are the main variations of Stud? Anything other than 5-card, 7-card, 7-card hi/lo and Razz?

2. How does the betting work? Are there blinds and antes? Is there a dealer button? How much is the bring-in? Is it usually Limit?

3. Do any Stud games involve community cards?

PS: For those that don't know, Crown runs:
- Monday from 12pm: $5 ante half-pot 5-card stud ($500+ Buy-In)
- Wednesday from 8pm: $10 ante half-pot 5-card stud ($1000+ Buy-In)

 

[DoubleA]

Stud is an old mans game.

 

[red+black]

No, that's Manila.

 

[Crosby87]

1 - The main variants these days are only 7Stud, Stud8, Stud8 Regular and Razz. Five Card Stud is rarely played, though that was the big game 50 or so years ago. That would be #5 on the list, though.

Both Stud Hi/Lo Eight or Better and Stud Hi/Lo Regular are commonly played in the big game in Vegas. The difference is that with 8-OB, obviously, there is a qualifier with the low - that is the low hand must be under eight to qualify for the low end. Hi/Lo Regular simply means that there is no qualifier - that is every hand with have a high and a low hand, unless the hand is scooped (with the player holding both the best high and low hands). As far as I know, this isn't played online, however.

There is such a thing called 6 Card Stud (which is two down, three up one down), and a variant called Chicago, either "big" or "small", where high or small spade in the whole wins half the pot (obv. big spade for Big Chicago, small for Little Chicago) is played in home games in the US a fair bit. No Limit Seven Card Stud is played, but rarely.

2. Play begins through the "bring in". The person who is first to act can either bring in or place a complete bet. A bring in is usually 1/4 of the completed bet. Once a player brings in, the player to the left can call or "complete". Once the bet is completed, the next player can either call or make a standard raise. Generally like most limit games raises are capped at three.

How a player is determined as the bring in varies from game to game. For Stud Hi, the low card brings in. For Stud8 and Razz, the high card brings in (i.e. the highest or lowest card of the upcards dealt.)

In Seven Card Stud/8/Razz, there are five betting rounds. The first is when three cards are dealt. Then a fourth, or "fourth street". Then on fifth, then on the sixth card, then on the river, which is dealt as a fourth hole card, generally these days called the river, or seventh. As far as stakes go, if it were a 20/40 game, third/fourth/fifth would have an opening bet of 20, sixth/river 40, bring in would be likely 5, and ante about 1/4 or 1/2 of that. That varies, though, I think. Some games have the river even higher, eg. stakes would be 20/40/60.

Most stud games have an ante, due to their being no blinds.

In five card stud, there are four betting rounds. Two cards are dealt first, one down, one up. Then third, fourth, fifth. The stakes play just as a hold'em game (if it's 20/40 then 20/20/40/40 opening bets).

Like some limit games, some stud games allow for unlimited raises on the river.

3. None that I know of, though I think I remember reading of one game where players have a board each, and share a community... though I could be wrong about that.

 

[Armwarmer]

No, that's Manila.

I had a dream that I was playing manila last night.
WTF is with that?

But yea, there's a really good section on 7 card stud and a few variants like hi/lo in the original super system written by Chip Reese. Have a read of that if you can get your hands on it.
5 card stud was all about reading the man, because often with only one hole card each and 5 cards in total, its so hard to make a straight or a flush. Because it is no limit, it is very hard to draw profitably. Having said that, implied odds are very high when people are playing deep. For example, in A Alvarez' "the biggest game in town" he talks about a huge pot between Johnny Moss and Nick "the Greek" Dandalos.

I found the exerpt of it on the net.

Five-card stud is the most classic of the games. Each of the players antes an agreed sum and on the first deal receives two cards - one face down, or in the hole, the other f ace up. They bet, and are then dealt three more cards face up, one at a time, checking (that is, not betting), betting, or folding after each card.

As Moss and the Greek were playing it, each anted $100, and the man with the lowest exposed card “brought it in” - that is, was forced to bet, in this case $200. Before this particular deal started, each had about a quarter of a million dollars’ worth of chips in front of him; by the time it was over, the entire half-million dollars was in the pot. Moss's first two cards were a nine in the hole and a six exposed; the Greek was showing a seven. Moss tells the story now, as he has told it often before, with a kind of chewed-up relish. His Texas drawl is so thick and slurred that it sounds at times like a foreign language, but the sentences are as
economical as telegrams: “Low man brings it in. I bet two hunnerd with a six, he raises fifteen hunnerd or two thousand, I call him. The next card comes, I catch a nine, he catches a six. I got two nines then. I make a good bet - five thousand, maybe - an' he plays back at me, twermy-five thousand. I jus’ call him. I'm figurin' to take all that money of
his, an'l don't wanna scare him none. The next card comes, he catches a trey, I catch a deuce. Ain't nuttin’ he got can beat my two nines. I check then to trap him, an’ he bets, jus’ like I wanted. So I raise him wa-ay up there, an’ he calls. I got him in there, all right.
There's a hunnerd thousand dollars in that pot - maybe more; I don't know exactly - an' I'm a-winnin'it. On the end, I catch a trey, he catches a jack. He's high now with the jack an’ he bets fifty thousand. I cain't put him on no jack in the hole, you know. He ain't gonna pay all that money jus’ for the chance to outdraw me. I don't care what he catches,
he's gotta beat those two nines of mine. So I move in with the rest of my money.” Nick Dandalos was fifty-seven years old, tall, trim, and polite. He had a degree from an English university and was reputed to have broken all the gamblers on the East Coast, including the legendary Arnold Rothstein, winning $6o million in the process. In the moments of silence after Moss pushed what remained of his quarter of a million
dollars’ worth of chips into the center, the Greek eyed him, upright and unblinking, and then said softly, “Mr. Moss, I think I have a jack in the hole.” “Greek,” Moss replied, “if you got a jack down there, You're liable to win yourself one hell of a pot.” There was another aching silence, and then the Greek carefully pushed his own chips forward and turned over his hole card. It was the jack of diamonds. “He outdrawed
me,” Moss says now. “We had about two hunnerd an’ fifty thousand

dollars apiece in that pot, and he win it. But that was all right. I broke him anyway.”​

 

[red+black]

Believe it or not I read a bit of Al Alvarez' "The biggest game in town" just on the weekend, and yeah I read about that Stud hand.

 

[Crosby87]

I also forgot to add that the person who is to open on each street is determined by the board - that is whether it is high or low, as with the upcard that determines the opener.