Sudan crisis - does anyone care?

[Freomaniac]

We produce approx 3x the amount of food we consume. Protein production to feed a growing Asian middle class has potential to become quite the earner for Australia

I will say this... There is money to be made with surplus of food. I swear South American nations like Argentina so the same thing.

I mean look at Rhodesia or Zimbabwe before Robert Mugabe was leader before 1980.

It was a bread basket of Africa. It was impressive lookin' back at it considering it was a landlocked nation with no coast line.

Sudan with the land that they have got could of been like Zimbabwe and could of thrived as a food basket.

I still remember a random story 10-15 years ago where some random Australian company had a live export of all this sheep on a ship.

Eventually it was taken for free to Eritrea.

 

[kickazz]

Nobody cares because neither side are white people

 

[Mofra]

Nobody cares because neither side are white people

Sad, but correct.

 

[SSwans2011]

I remember watching a few video on this several months back but without looking into it myself, this is the first I've heard it mentioned anywhere since then. Which sadly sums it up.

Similarly, though not close to the acale of what's happening in Sudan, you're unlikely to hear about the Amhara conflict in Ethiopia which has killed at least 15,000 people and displaced over 100,000 since 2023.

I guess with over 120 active conflicts happening around the world, our awareness will be nassively skewed towards those that countries that are strategically aligned with the west are involved in sadly.

 

[E Shed]

I remember watching a few video on this several months back but without looking into it myself, this is the first I've heard it mentioned anywhere since then. Which sadly sums it up.

Similarly, though not close to the acale of what's happening in Sudan, you're unlikely to hear about the Amhara conflict in Ethiopia which has killed at least 15,000 people and displaced over 100,000 since 2023.

I guess with over 120 active conflicts happening around the world, our awareness will be nassively skewed towards those that countries that are strategically aligned with the west are involved in sadly.

I wonder how many are based on my Gods better than yours? Religion should be banned.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

A partitioned Sudan isn't a good idea. The RSF are basically ISIS without the radical Islamism. Putting them in charge of Darfur on an ongoing basis will guarantee a genocide.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I wonder how many are based on my Gods better than yours? Religion should be banned.

Actually, in that region, religion mostly isn't to blame. Both sides of the conflict in Ethiopia are mostly Christian, the division is ethnic. Both sides of the war in Sudan are Arab Muslims who are not Islamists, it's a power struggle (and the RSF are wiping out Muslims who are not Arab). Over in Mali too, both sides are Muslims, the division is ethnic.

When they divided Sudan, they effectively split the states by religion, South Sudan being mostly Christian and the rest of Sudan being mostly Muslim. And both new states almost immediately started fighting within their religion. So I don't think banning religion would have solved anything.

 

[E Shed]

Actually, in that region, religion mostly isn't to blame. Both sides of the conflict in Ethiopia are mostly Christian, the division is ethnic. Both sides of the war in Sudan are Arab Muslims who are not Islamists, it's a power struggle (and the RSF are wiping out Muslims who are not Arab). Over in Mali too, both sides are Muslims, the division is ethnic.

When they divided Sudan, they effectively split the states by religion, South Sudan being mostly Christian and the rest of Sudan being mostly Muslim. And both new states almost immediately started fighting within their religion. So I don't think banning religion would have solved anything.

Good points well made. I must have been feeling quite cynical when I made my post. People will find any difference to fight over it seems.

 

[Saint]

Yes, the RSF are maniacs, but the Govt of Sudan aren't a hell of a lot better to the non-Arab population.

It's essentially the Arab majority in the north fighting for power and while they can't beat each other, they slaughter the native Africans to increase their relative share of power.

 

[Saint]

The UAE are the ones funding the RSF. And it's the British giving the weapons to the UAE and pretending they don't know what they're being used for.

 

[Freomaniac]

A partitioned Sudan isn't a good idea. The RSF are basically ISIS without the radical Islamism. Putting them in charge of Darfur on an ongoing basis will guarantee a genocide.

It was never gonna end well

 

[Jazny]

It's scary how much the world doesn't care about what is happening there. Obviously it's super hard to verify what's happening, I am now only starting to catch up on it a little bit, but reports are that 60-80,000 people have been killed in al-Fashir since October this year. This isn't like conventional fighting from what I am reading, the defending military retreated and the RSF just essentially started going door to door killing civilians. Yet it feels the world just slept through this.

 

[bzparkes]

So, to address the OP, based off the lack of interest in this thread it appears that indeed, nobody cares, despite the death toll being way higher than the Gaza's current conflict in just one month.

When Israel/USA isn't involved, nobody gives a shit because there's no opportunity to virtue signal.

 

[Freomaniac]

Sad, but correct.

Yeah if it was Zimbabwe or Rhodesia, then it would be mentioned as there was a small population of white people at the time.

I know it's off topic.... But any nation that is a landlocked nation is gonna struggle with resources and money.

I mean look at Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE for example. All 3 middle Eastern nations make money selling oil and gas overseas.

But you need a coast line to put it on a ship to send it overseas.

South Sudan has no coastline. So they got to go through a nation to a Port to sell or buy products.

Ethiopia is another African nation that is landlocked. They are willing to invade Eritrea to get access to the sea with Port Assad

 

[Andre]

So, to address the OP, based off the lack of interest in this thread it appears that indeed, nobody cares, despite the death toll being way higher than the Gaza's current conflict in just one month.

When Israel/USA isn't involved, nobody gives a shit because there's no opportunity to virtue signal.

Assuming everyone did care, what should governments do? Let's not assume it should just be the US rushing in (which obviously wouldn't happen with Trump, unless either side could find a way to line him and his families pockets with billions for doing so).

As Europeans have always shouldered the biggest financial support burden with Ukraine and now the military as well with Trump in power, as they should given in Europe, any action should be led by other countries in Africa. As African countries (rightly) don't want to be dictated to by ex-colonial powers, the flip side of that, is they need to step up and lead (with boots on the ground), peace keeping between the two sides. There's been crickets by and large there.

 

[bzparkes]

Assuming everyone did care, what should governments do? Let's not assume it should just be the US rushing in (which obviously wouldn't happen with Trump, unless either side could find a way to line him and his families pockets with billions for doing so).

As Europeans have always shouldered the biggest financial support burden with Ukraine and now the military as well with Trump in power, as they should given in Europe, any action should be led by other countries in Africa. As African countries (rightly) don't want to be dictated to by ex-colonial powers, the flip side of that, is they need to step up and lead (with boots on the ground), peace keeping between the two sides. There's been crickets by and large there.

You're not wrong. Eventually you need to let countries sort their own stuff out, although realistically it should be the UN stepping in here but they're corrupt as hell and there's no way they'd do anything like that.

If it were up to me, I'd just cut off all intervention and foreign aid, considering it only goes to corrupt officials and none of the people who actually need it end up getting it anyway.

I think a few are just pointing out that you have the constant noise about how awful the war in Gaza is(which it certainly is) but there's crickets on much larger conflicts going on around the world and even when people find out about them they simply don't care.

It seems people are just more interested in virtue-signaling for their preferred group than actually ending conflicts.

Just look how the same people who protest about the 'apartheid' in Gaza just brush off the treatment of over 3 million Uyghurs in China as whataboutism.

 

[Jazny]

Assuming everyone did care, what should governments do? Let's not assume it should just be the US rushing in (which obviously wouldn't happen with Trump, unless either side could find a way to line him and his families pockets with billions for doing so).

Apply maximum political pressure? If the allegations are true, it's looking like a genocide. I think 150k were trapped in the city, out of that we have potentially half of them dead in a few months. By all reports, there is no military fighting in the city, so it's not like combatant deaths and collateral damage can explain it, these people were reportedly executed for who they were.

So I think that is enough suspicion of genocide that there should be considered a "serious risk" of genocide, it would trigger states duty to prevent genocide. Australia probably couldn't do a lot except for diplomacy and aid as well as sanctioning those involved, but it's better than nothing. If the entire world did this it would put serious pressure on them to stop.

 

[Mofra]

So, to address the OP, based off the lack of interest in this thread it appears that indeed, nobody cares, despite the death toll being way higher than the Gaza's current conflict in just one month.

I do wonder if the lack of vision, so few reporters on the ground, is a big driver here?

Many other conflicts attract interest due to (sadly, horrific) pictures. There is little to no reporting on the ground here, apart from satellite images showing large blood pools indicating mass killings and mass graves.

There's a reason journalists are targetted by oppressive regimes. They're vital to wider public interest.

 

[bzparkes]

I do wonder if the lack of vision, so few reporters on the ground, is a big driver here?

Many other conflicts attract interest due to (sadly, horrific) pictures. There is little to no reporting on the ground here, apart from satellite images showing large blood pools indicating mass killings and mass graves.

There's a reason journalists are targetted by oppressive regimes. They're vital to wider public interest.

That's a fair comment but even when it's brought up, sadly people just don't seem to give it much thought.

It's similar to the Thai/Cambodia war that next to nobody in MSM is talking about, despite thousands dead on the Cambodian side.

This is a good video that breaks down the ongoing conflict and what led to it.

 

[barreness]

So, to address the OP, based off the lack of interest in this thread it appears that indeed, nobody cares, despite the death toll being way higher than the Gaza's current conflict in just one month.

When Israel/USA isn't involved, nobody gives a shit because there's no opportunity to virtue signal.

Ironic.........Iconic?

The UK should probably sanction Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan. Man city owner and funding/arming the RSF, who seem the biggest bastards of the lot.

 

[Freomaniac]

Sad, but correct.

I will also bring this up. The Rwandan civil war in the 1990s between the Hutus and Tutsis where 1 million were dead. That was ignored too

 

[ferball]

I will also bring this up. The Rwandan civil war in the 1990s between the Hutus and Tutsis where 1 million were dead. That was ignored too

It wasn't ignored.

Australian went there as peace keepers.

 

[Jazny]

It wasn't ignored.

Australian went there as peace keepers.

It was effectively ignored. The UN knew about it too, were forewarned by a Canadian commander Romaine Dellaire who pleaded for more UN troops, instead the UN refused to strengthen the mandate after 10 Belgian soldiers were killed in a prior incident. They had 2500 troops there already, but the Europeans started withdrawing their forces so it was reduced to 270 during the beginning of the genocide. This decision was slowly and reluctantly reversed far too late, by the time the UN sent in the new mission, the genocide was already effectively over.

It is insane that a machete genocide was allowed to happen and the UN's response was to basically put it in the too hard basket.

 

[ferball]

It was effectively ignored. The UN knew about it too, were forewarned by a Canadian commander Romaine Dellaire who pleaded for more UN troops, instead the UN refused to strengthen the mandate after 10 Belgian soldiers were killed in a prior incident. They had 2500 troops there already, but the Europeans started withdrawing their forces so it was reduced to 270 during the beginning of the genocide. This decision was slowly and reluctantly reversed far too late, by the time the UN sent in the new mission, the genocide was already effectively over.

It is insane that a machete genocide was allowed to happen and the UN's response was to basically put it in the too hard basket.

I would say the response was staggeringly incompetent myself.

But you're right I spose. It definitely seems that African lives don't matter as much as some other lives (altho the person who Dellaire asked to act was also African - Kofi Annan.) Rwanda seemed like a token effort, if that.

I have a good friend who served in Rwanda. The things he's told me about it are horrific and I know there's stuff he doesn't talk about. I've never met anyone with the sort of self destructive, insane levels of PTSD he has either and I've known people who fought in nearly every war Australia was involved with from ww1 onward.

 

[Jazny]

I would say the response was staggeringly incompetent myself.

But you're right I spose. It definitely seems that African lives don't matter as much as some other lives (altho the person who Dellaire asked to act was also African - Kofi Annan.) Rwanda seemed like a token effort, if that.

I have a good friend who served in Rwanda. The things he's told me about it are horrific and I know there's stuff he doesn't talk about. I've never met anyone with the sort of self destructive, insane levels of PTSD he has either and I've known people who fought in nearly every war Australia was involved with from ww1 onward.

Rwanda was just waves and waves and waves of people from all ages, genders, everyone just hacked to death with machetes, not even fighting, just executed, women mass r*ped and executed. It was as bad as it gets, and the UN peacekeepers there were powerless to do much to stop it. It's unimaginable horror.

The fact that the African genocides get very little attention does make you think that it's at least partially explained by racism or racial bias. I think it's fair to say generally that right wing people in the West don't care about Africans for the most part and they are often isolationist anyway (America first). Left wing activists only care if there is an anti-colonial, anti-Western angle they can spin on it. If it's Africans killing Africans, they don't seem to care all that much.