Supercoach Trading 101

[Spartan]

People seem to be asking the same questions so i thought I would be a good samaritan and put together a thread which covers the basics. Feel free to add anymore tips and advice. This thread isn't for trading questions, more just strategies and guidelines. I'm a newb myself and different people have different opinions, so keep that in mind while reading this and the posts made by others.

Simple 'rules' of Supercoach trading.

* Do not trade before teams are released on Thursday. If you can help it even wait till the final teams are released on Friday.

* Do not trade out premium players after a couple of bad games. There are exceptions to the rule, like Barry Hall last year, however in general your guns should be locked into your team. If your gun loses value who cares, you picked him for the season to score you points and not as a cash cow. Only trade premiums if they are on the long term injury list.

* Do not trade sideways. Be it Rookies or Premiums, trading sideways is usually pointless. A 'better' rookie traded in for your 'average' rookie is pointless. If you strongly believe your rookie won't get another game for the season then make the trade, otherwise be happy with what you have.

* Do not waste trades. 20 trades, 22 rounds. Injuries, suspensions, etc are all part of the game. Use your trades wisely and carefully.

* Do not jump on a player because of one or two good games or jump off a player because of one or two bad games. Research their past performances and consider the teams they have just played, etc.

 

[sdsdsdsd]

People seem to be asking the same questions so i thought I would be a good samaritan and put together a thread which covers the basics. Feel free to add anymore tips and advice. This thread isn't for trading questions, more just strategies and guidelines. I'm a newb myself and different people have different opinions, so keep that in mind while reading this and the posts made by others.

Simple 'rules' of Supercoach trading.

* Do not trade before teams are released on Thursday. If you can help it even wait till the final teams are released on Friday.

* Do not trade out premium players after a couple of bad games. There are exceptions to the rule, like Barry Hall last year, however in general your guns should be locked into your team. If your gun loses value who cares, you picked him for the season to score you points and not as a cash cow. Only trade premiums if they are on the long term injury list.

* Do not trade sideways. Be it Rookies or Premiums, trading sideways is usually pointless. A 'better' rookie traded in for your 'average' rookie is pointless. If you strongly believe your rookie won't get another game for the season then make the trade, otherwise be happy with what you have.

* Do not waste trades. 20 trades, 22 rounds. Injuries, suspensions, etc are all part of the game. Use your trades wisely and carefully.

* Do not jump on a player because of one or two good games or jump off a player because of one or two bad games. Research their past performances and consider the teams they have just played, etc.

Nice, well done

 

[oaks]

i lol at every noob who jumped on B.Johnson after 1 good game, and everyone who sideway traded symes

 

[Footbrawler]

..and I laugh at those who laugh at others.

Another rule:

*When in doubt, go the Geelong player.

 

[Yoda_]

I have looked into it a bit, and dont pick tall youngsters, especially tall forwards as they will not produce consisntently.

Look at Rioli, is averaging nearly 80+, whereas people may have picked Tippet and he is averaging below 60.

Pick at your peril.

 

[d4vE]

i laugh at ppl who would have used 4 trades by the start of round 3

 

[lamaros]

I have looked into it a bit, and dont pick tall youngsters, especially tall forwards as they will not produce consisntently.

Look at Rioli, is averaging nearly 80+, whereas people may have picked Tippet and he is averaging below 60.

Pick at your peril.

Limited sample size.

 

[Carlton Kid]

..and I laugh at those who laugh at others.

You laugh at yourself?

 

[Spartan]

I can see we're going to get some quality posts in this thread.

 

[rizzo]

http://www.aflchat.com.au/guide-the-trading-game/

 

[Spartan]

http://www.aflchat.com.au/guide-the-trading-game/

 

[dplggr47]

I have looked into it a bit, and don't pick tall youngsters, especially tall forwards as they will not produce consistently.
Look at Rioli, is averaging nearly 80+, whereas people may have picked Tippet and he is averaging below 60.
Pick at your peril.

Limited sample size.

i agree, not enough numbers to confirm.

Tippett's second score was less because he injured the knee in the 3rd quarter - he may have well gone on to get that 50 score, which would've made him consistent. it's not, don't pick young tall forwards because they are inconsistent, it's don't pick young tall forwards, because they won't gather as many possessions as a small young forward, like Rioli or Stokes. These smaller guys gather more possessions and lay more tackles, as small forwards, whereas guys like Tippett have potential to kick more goals, but will always get less possessions and tackles.

 

[SJ]

I have looked into it a bit, and dont pick tall youngsters, especially tall forwards as they will not produce consisntently.

Look at Rioli, is averaging nearly 80+, whereas people may have picked Tippet and he is averaging below 60.

Pick at your peril.

Maybe a general rule, however rules are made to be broken. Westhoff and Gray burst onto the scene last year. I went Gray for the above reason. Westhoff performed better, admittedly Gray got injured but I think Westhoff's average was superior.

 

[caza27]

In the Fantasy Land section of the AFL prospectus the advice on trading is

1. "Use 4 trades in your first 2 weeks "

2. "Pick players who will play immediately , dump those who don't"

3. "Save six trades for after Round 12 and use them on zeroes"

4. "Leave some flexibility under your cap when you can "


My thoughts on these are

1. Not too burn any of your trades just too use them

2. You should try to only get rookies in your side who are picked and will play . Hard to do but well worth it as any points are better than zeroes and any scores will mean price rises from rookies .

3. You should save as many trades as you can till as late in the game as possible . Ideally having at least 4 trades for the finals would be golden

4. Good idea to have excess cash in the bank as means you can usually upgrade to a better player without burning two trades if one of your guns goes down

 

[lamaros]

My view at this point, and probably until round 5, is:

If a player is down with a long term injury and they are expensive, trade them.
If a rookie is not playing any games and you have good reason to believe they won't play this year, trade them.
If you do not have a full 22 player on the pitch, trade the worst options (injured, expensive, unlikely to play, etc) who are missing out for players who will get a game.
If a player has really bad form and you have reason to believe they will continue it (new position, getting too old) and it will result in you losing a lot of money on them, trade them.
If a player has good form (better with age, well adjusted to new position, focal point of the team) and you have good reason to believe they will keep it up, and can afford to trade them for a significant point increase, then trade for them.

Otherwise DO NOT TRADE YET as it is only week 2 and it would be foolish to make important trades on the back of just two games.

 

[SJ]

In the Fantasy Land section of the AFL prospectus the advice on trading is

1. "Use 4 trades in your first 2 weeks " Interesting. I wouldn't suggest this at all. Indeed, if your side is terrible than this is the time to make the trades. But if you have any idea about the game and have done your research there is no reason to waste four trades in a fortnight when you had unlimited just two weeks before.

2. "Pick players who will play immediately , dump those who don't"

3. "Save six trades for after Round 12 and use them on zeroes"

4. "Leave some flexibility under your cap when you can "

Thoughts in bold.

 

[Pessimistic]

How well are your players doing ? Breaking even obviously doesn't cut it

All this is based on stats from Walesey's 'TooSerious and supercoach itself;

All players have increased on average by $4k. The average weekly win by punters is about 1600pts

If the assigned value at the start was what is being won after 2 rounds. the average for punters would be about the 1300pts mark

---meaning if your players are breaking even, they are off the pace. they need to ber at least $4k better to be just treading water

Of the 700+ players, 285 have got a game so far (the vast majority of your first 22 will be in this area).

of these 197 have improved by $4k or more, the other 188 have dropped off the pace.

The average value increase of the top 197 is $53k - this is where you want all your players to be to b a contender yourself

So I reckon to rise in the comp you need many your players to have had an increase of over $50k, although I guess as conditions get tougher, the averages will drop somewhat

So far I have 7 ( $1.8m investment) players in the $50k plus category, another 10 ($3.9m value) who are $4k plus and 9 (3.5m value) who are off the pace. 4 ($0.6m) are yet to get a game.

I suppose the trading strategy is to get players from the lower categories into the higher ones, especially if they are long term injured

 

[Gerbil]

Whats everyones thought on trading players like dempsey and dew, who may only be out for 3 or 4 weeks?

 

[bailz66]

How well are your players doing ? Breaking even obviously doesn't cut it

All this is based on stats from Walesey's 'TooSerious and supercoach itself;

All players have increased on average by $4k. The average weekly win by punters is about 1600pts

If the assigned value at the start was what is being won after 2 rounds. the average for punters would be about the 1300pts mark

---meaning if your players are breaking even, they are off the pace. they need to ber at least $4k better to be just treading water

Of the 700+ players, 285 have got a game so far (the vast majority of your first 22 will be in this area).

of these 197 have improved by $4k or more, the other 188 have dropped off the pace.

The average value increase of the top 197 is $53k - this is where you want all your players to be to b a contender yourself

So I reckon to rise in the comp you need many your players to have had an increase of over $50k, although I guess as conditions get tougher, the averages will drop somewhat

So far I have 7 ( $1.8m investment) players in the $50k plus category, another 10 ($3.9m value) who are $4k plus and 9 (3.5m value) who are off the pace. 4 ($0.6m) are yet to get a game.

I suppose the trading strategy is to get players from the lower categories into the higher ones, especially if they are long term injured

Not sure if your basing this on total movement or not

Total Movement
50k+ 15 players
4k 6 players
4k or less 8 players
1 yet to play


Next Round Value
50k 3 players
4k 18 players
4k or less 8 players
1 yet to play

 

[4#Didak#4]

All these rules on trading do not make sense unless you have an end goal in mind. There are 2 main goals to achieve: win your league & achieve the highest ranking possible.

These two goals require different trading strategies.

If you want to win your league - save your trades. Your aim should be to make the top 8 then have your team at its peak at round 19 (with some trades still in hand). This means you need to be conservative & cautious in rounds 1-10 making sure you are winning enough games (do not have to win 100%) to keep you in the 8. Make the obvious trades (such as long term injuries) but do not get rid of someone if they are out for 2-3 weeks - use your bench. Wait for oppurtunities to upgrade do not force it. Have at least 10 trades at round 10. At this point cash your cows and start being more agressive to have your side at its absolute best come finals with about 3-4 trades in hand for injuries. This will not result in a great overall score but it will mean you have the best chance to win your league.

If you want a high ranking - to have a high ranking you need to be more agressive early, picking more cash cows and having them upgraded earlier. This means a lot more trades rounds 1-5. The aim is to get the best side on the park as early as possible to give them a chance to score for you for longer. Trade hard trade early. This means more risks as more risks equal bigger return. But if you are scoring more and ranking higher won't this mean I will win my league? I hear you ask. No guarantee - you will do great in your league thru the season but come finals you will feel the pinch. As other teams are trading in form players or players playing against weak teams your options are minimal as you have spent most of your trades and are really just fighting off injuries. Your enourmous scores during the season count for nothing in finals (a little like the real thing, who cares if you if you finish on top if you don't win the GF).

I managed a top 100 finish last year - won all games thru the season easily but by the time the GF came I was spent, injuries took their toll and had a few players out of form on the day - game over. Not that I cared as I wanted a high overall finish, I made many good trades pre finals that got me top 100 when if I held off on those I would have won the GF.

The way you trade depends on what you want do not use "trade rules" that do not suit you.

 

[Spartan]

All these rules on trading do not make sense unless you have an end goal in mind. There are 2 main goals to achieve: win your league & achieve the highest ranking possible.

These two goals require different trading strategies.

If you want to win your league - save your trades. Your aim should be to make the top 8 then have your team at its peak at round 19 (with some trades still in hand). This means you need to be conservative & cautious in rounds 1-10 making sure you are winning enough games (do not have to win 100%) to keep you in the 8. Make the obvious trades (such as long term injuries) but do not get rid of someone if they are out for 2-3 weeks - use your bench. Wait for oppurtunities to upgrade do not force it. Have at least 10 trades at round 10. At this point cash your cows and start being more agressive to have your side at its absolute best come finals with about 3-4 trades in hand for injuries. This will not result in a great overall score but it will mean you have the best chance to win your league.

If you want a high ranking - to have a high ranking you need to be more agressive early, picking more cash cows and having them upgraded earlier. This means a lot more trades rounds 1-5. The aim is to get the best side on the park as early as possible to give them a chance to score for you for longer. Trade hard trade early. This means more risks as more risks equal bigger return. But if you are scoring more and ranking higher won't this mean I will win my league? I hear you ask. No guarantee - you will do great in your league thru the season but come finals you will feel the pinch. As other teams are trading in form players or players playing against weak teams your options are minimal as you have spent most of your trades and are really just fighting off injuries. Your enourmous scores during the season count for nothing in finals (a little like the real thing, who cares if you if you finish on top if you don't win the GF).

I managed a top 100 finish last year - won all games thru the season easily but by the time the GF came I was spent, injuries took their toll and had a few players out of form on the day - game over. Not that I cared as I wanted a high overall finish, I made many good trades pre finals that got me top 100 when if I held off on those I would have won the GF.

The way you trade depends on what you want do not use "trade rules" that do not suit you.

Quality post. I agree with what you're saying, however I don't believe you *have* to trade aggressively early if you're aiming for a high overall finish. It comes down to team selection. I still think trading for example Tippet for Hill is a stupid trade. Hill may average say 10 points more a game but neither is going to be a keeper and both will require upgrades. You're wasting a trade to make some money. Also you never know how badly injuries might affect you during the start, middle or finish.

To each his own I guess. Last year (my first year) I traded aggressively to start with and then choked at the end. My final 2007 position doesn't speak too much because I only entered in Round 3.

This year I'm currently #160 with 20 trades in hand, however I'll be using up one this week. Besides this week's trade my early trades will be used for cash cow and upgrading purposes.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Quality post. I agree with what you're saying, however I don't believe you *have* to trade aggressively early if you're aiming for a high overall finish. It comes down to team selection. I still think trading for example Tippet for Hill is a stupid trade. Hill may average say 10 points more a game but neither is going to be a keeper and both will require upgrades. You're wasting a trade to make some money. Also you never know how badly injuries might affect you during the start, middle or finish.

To each his own I guess. Last year (my first year) I traded aggressively to start with and then choked at the end. My final 2007 position doesn't speak too much because I only entered in Round 3.

This year I'm currently #160 with 20 trades in hand, however I'll be using up one this week. Besides this week's trade my early trades will be used for cash cow and upgrading purposes.

When I say agressive I mean more trades earlier than later and with purpose in mind - primarily getting cash cows converted into premium players earlier. Whereas in the league you need to save your cows for later and have a bit more of a luxury in picking the best players at the best price. If you are too picky in waiting for the right oppurtunity to upgrade when you are trying to rank high the game will pass you by and it will be too late - this is where the aggressive trading comes in.

Of course it helps immensly if you have picked a quality side to start with (if you make too many bad choices early then kiss rankings goodbye) and if your injuries are minimal. Well done on your start, but don't rest on your laurels as their are plenty of moves in the next 2-3 weeks that will sort the top few from the pack.

 

[Spartan]

When I say agressive I mean more trades earlier than later and with purpose in mind - primarily getting cash cows converted into premium players earlier. Whereas in the league you need to save your cows for later and have a bit more of a luxury in picking the best players at the best price. If you are too picky in waiting for the right oppurtunity to upgrade when you are trying to rank high the game will pass you by and it will be too late - this is where the aggressive trading comes in.

Of course it helps immensly if you have picked a quality side to start with (if you make too many bad choices early then kiss rankings goodbye) and if your injuries are minimal. Well done on your start, but don't rest on your laurels as their are plenty of moves in the next 2-3 weeks that will sort the top few from the pack.

Great to hear from someone with some quality ideas. Mate I'm far from resting on my laurels, I know its alot harder to be ranked #160 after round 22 than after round 2.

I guess I want the best of both worlds, I want to rank as high as i can as well as winning the league i'm in with my mates.

I guess you've made me think a little about my exact strategy with your comments. Delaying an upgrade a couple of weeks or even a week can cost valuable points when you're trying to climb the ladder. Hrmz.

 

[Walesy]

Great to hear from someone with some quality ideas. Mate I'm far from resting on my laurels, I know its alot harder to be ranked #160 after round 22 than after round 2.

I guess I want the best of both worlds, I want to rank as high as i can as well as winning the league i'm in with my mates.

I guess you've made me think a little about my exact strategy with your comments. Delaying an upgrade a couple of weeks or even a week can cost valuable points when you're trying to climb the ladder. Hrmz.

You can definitely have it all.

If you're going for the overall, you're going to be pumping out bigger scores for the second half of the season... all you need to do is squeek into 8th..

As for trading agressively. You definitely want to do that. However, don't forget that you can't trade everyone out at once. Players can take 3-6 games to max out.

Picking who has maxed out after 3, vs after 6 is made easier with tools like TooSerious, however it all comes back to your decisions. And weighing where players are at.

It means that having a cashcow that misses the first few weeks (or gets injured - ie, Dempsey), isn't the end of the world... it just pushes them back to the cash-cow you trade in round 9, instead of the cashcow you trade in round 5...

 

[Spartan]

You can definitely have it all.

If you're going for the overall, you're going to be pumping out bigger scores for the second half of the season... all you need to do is squeek into 8th..

As for trading agressively. You definitely want to do that. However, don't forget that you can't trade everyone out at once. Players can take 3-6 games to max out.

Picking who has maxed out after 3, vs after 6 is made easier with tools like TooSerious, however it all comes back to your decisions. And weighing where players are at.

It means that having a cashcow that misses the first few weeks (or gets injured - ie, Dempsey), isn't the end of the world... it just pushes them back to the cash-cow you trade in round 9, instead of the cashcow you trade in round 5...

Thanks for that Professor Walsey. I didn't know that.