Tanking

[sosos]

The hypocracy of these bogans is incredible - on the one hand they accuse Carlton of cheating, by buying premierships and recruiting players by the chequebook.

The minute we utilize the AFL Draft System to its advantage we are also accused of cheating.

If these hypocrits dont like the AFL Draft System - I am all for going back to the "Form Four" System.

Lets see how these perennial pathetic clubs go with that.

I don't know what form four is.

 

[mediumsizered]

Sorry MS, but I reckon you'd be the only Blues supporter who think's we didn't tank.

Looks like you are wrong. BTW, did Fremantle tank against Hawthorn, or was that list management?

 

[bobsyouruncle]

To the people that are so sure that we tanked, where is the proof? You can't just say "just watch the game, its clear as day". Don't get me wrong, I have no illusions about the nature of the AFL business and what can be done to work the system. But how well will your argument hold up in a court of law?

There is a logical fallacy being implemented here, and i'm pretty sure it's argument from igorance(not calling anyone ignorant, it's the name of the logical fallacy). And it goes like this, "Carlton cheated to get Matty K, they can't prove that they didn't cheat, therefore they did cheat."


"Travis Johnstone got 42 possessions across half back. Heath Scotland got 41 possessions across half back. Scotland's efficiency was higher IIRC."

The reason people only bring up TJ's 42 possies and not Scotlands is calling "cherry picking". People pick the evidence/stat that most support their arguement but fail to take into account others which contradicts their theory. Makes their initial argument seem solid, but upon further inspection reveals their bias.

Here is a funny misuse of statistics for ya, OJ Simpson's lawyer argued that only 1 in 2000(0.05%) husbands who physically abuse their wives go on to murder them. Apparently this was one of the crucial factors in getting him the not guilty verdict. But what the lawyer failed to mention was that in the US, 1 in 2(thats 50%) of all women murdered......were murdered by their husband/partner. Not sure if this is 100% true but thats what i learned in Statistics at uni.

 

[agro]

I don't know what form four is.

Prior to the VFL/AFL introducing the Draft system - the VFL/AFL issued each club with a certain amount of Form Fours each season by which they could sign players from outside the VFL/AFL onto their lists.

Form Fours were used as a form of currency and clubs could buy them from other clubs if they hadnt utilized them.

From memory Carlton used the last of its Form Fours to sign, up:

- Stephen Kernhan
- Craig Bradley
- Peter Motley
- John Dorotich

 

[NAUGHT5]

That game of Travis Johnstone's has been built up as the greatest game by a single player in the history of Australian Football.

 

[Freomaniac]

The Tanking Ladder.

1. StKilda.
Still the biggest episode of tanking we've ever seen. Was a while back now, but it lasted for 4+ years. Aided by the AFL who were trying to get this 26 spoon basketcase up from the bottom.

2. Hawthorn
A concentrated 3 year tank-a-thon. It was so extreme the AFL had to change the PP rules because of the systematic rorting by the Hawks

3. Pies
We all remember the Pie 2005 Tank-a-Thon. 1/2 of the list was booked in for end-of-season surgery before the 1/2 way mark

4. Dees
Rorted the system for 2.5 years. It was a very aggressive tanking campaign, because they had the compromised draft deadline.

5. Weagles
Tanked one year, but it had no impact because the Weagles generally make terrible draft decisions.

6. Richmond
Terry Wallace admitted to throwing a game a few years back. The problem was he used the pick to secure McMahon!

In 1999, Freo got picks 2,4 and 5 one reason was that we got 5 wins. Also Melbourne was over the cap that year and we got their pick 5.

Freo got only 2 wins in 2001, would you consider that tanking?

Sydney got only 1 win in 1993, would you consider that tanking?

What about fitzroys bad seasons in 1995 and 1996?

 

[thylacine60]

That game of Travis Johnstone's has been built up as the greatest game by a single player in the history of Australian Football.

Absolute garbage, NAUGHTS. Andy Collins' game against Sydney clearly tops it.

 

[NAUGHT5]

Absolute garbage, NAUGHTS. Andy Collins' game against Sydney clearly tops it.

Sorry Thy, I thought it would have been clear I wasn't including the 25 career games of Andrew Collins.

 

[inyourcool]

Freomaniac, you have documented that well.
Tanking was at its most extreme when the hawks and pies forced the AFL to change the priority pick rule due to the extraordinary lengths both those clubs were taking to lose games. The hawks didn’t take games seriously for most of the 2004 season and IIRC lost a game inside the last 5 minutes when leading the tigers by close to 4 goals towards the end of the 2004 season (remember the tigers finished last that year!!!)

The pies simply put players with even the mildest injuries like cuticle splitting for season ending manicures!

The dees did a decent job in their tanking efforts more recently to ensure the Scully/Trengove combo landed at whatever the latest base of theirs is called (Victory Park or something!)

But as we know, Carlton is the one everyone loves to deride. But it doesn’t bother me, all the more reason to stick it up’em when we toast success...

 

[krayfesh]

The pies simply put players with even the mildest injuries like cuticle splitting for season ending manicures!

 

[DarkTint]

Why Does Tanking Occur in the NBA but Seemingly Not in Other Leagues?

Some good points there.

 

[DarkTint]

[YOUTUBE]elqDxnoK-98[/YOUTUBE]

So young, so so young(still).

The guy doing the interview is the 4th best player there.

 

[Blue since 72]

Not exactly. There are two definitions for tanking.

1. Managing your list based on future needs, and dependent on current placements. i.e nothing to play for so give player more time for best possible recovery from injury. Try out fringe players or rookies to make a decision on their future.

2. Cheating, deliberately trying to throw games in order to get better draft picks.

Everyone agrees that team do number 1, but as soon as it is retold, the implications become number 2.

'We tanked' as in 'we managed our list' is converted to 'we cheated' in the minds of our detractors.

Really not sure of the merits of trying to earn admissions of tanking from Carlton supporters on this board, when we all know that a minority opinion that does not favour us, becomes a representative opinion on the rest of BigFooty. Then to top it off, it removes our credibility in commenting on any topic anywhere.

Not really sure why we do it to ourselves and our fellow supporters.

Fair enough. Morally speaking I'm not too concerned in terms of list management but would be concerned if it came about that players were ordered to throw games (TBH I can't believe 22 guys would agree to do this and there would be at least one whistleblower).

It is what it is and as you say point 1 can be turned into point 2 very quickly depending on the agenda being pushed. It does erk me that we often get singled out as if we invented the idea but I think it was you who said its probably because we were shite for so long and scored three number 1's from being shite.

Facts are unless someone goes on record and has a record of a coach or administration ordering people to throw games I guess in the eyes of the AFL it doesn't happen, even if privately they have a different view.

MS referred to the Freo/Hawks game as a possible example.

Clubs are walking a fine line when they do things like the above or rest key players for long periods or play players obviously out of position. Harvey would have been absolutely crucified by the supporter base and the media if we had got up and media pressure alone may have prompted the AFL to ask for a please explain (or did they do that anyway? not sure)