Tarrants true influence?

[poshman]

He will do nothing and he won't be able to kick goals because he can't kick. There is no point of playing him in your team. That's why we got rid of him.

Arnt these the same people who where saying they didnt wont him to go in the first place????

 

[Moo]

He will do nothing and he won't be able to kick goals because he can't kick. There is no point of playing him in your team. That's why we got rid of him.

Yeah yeah ...next time post your thoughts before the trade and not just wait until after the event noobie.

He was expected to be your forward line with Rocca, at Freo there is Pav (who is better than Rocca and Taz), Farmer a consistent small forward and a Murphy or JLo ....compared to Leon I'll kick 4 goals one week and none the next 3 games, Medhurst (see Davis) and Rusling (wet behind the ears) and maybe Bucks if he is on a rostered week on.

Sandi is going to run over Fraser when we play you and then your back up ruckman (ie whoever you draft) can watch as we pump you.

Taz dont need to a lot except provide an alternative target. He was always dangerous against us and that was against defenders ....if Clement goes to Pav, who takes Taz? babahahahahahahahahahahahah - got nothing.

 

[KissStephanie]

If Pav is injured, Tarrant is good enough to win H&A games as the key forward as has done for C'wood

Oh yes, and when and how often has Tarrant achieved this? I am not joking, but I can't remember when he has won a match off his own boot. A goal after the siren once doesn't count of course. Tarrant will not win many games on his own, as he showed at Collingwood. Medhurst is just as likely to do that.

He was expected to be your forward line with Rocca, at Freo there is Pav (who is better than Rocca and Taz), Farmer a consistent small forward and a Murphy or JLo ....compared to Leon I'll kick 4 goals one week and none the next 3 games, Medhurst (see Davis) and Rusling (wet behind the ears) and maybe Bucks if he is on a rostered week on.

I think that you're being a bit unfair on Rusling as he received a serious injury pre-season in 2006. I think that without Tarrant, then Cloke, Rusling and Medhurst will together be the revelations of 2007 and take significant steps in the careers. I have no doubt that Rocca will also relish the absence of Tarrant, and the year under his belt, and a full pre-season after missing all of 2005 should improve his fitness.

Sandi is going to run over Fraser when we play you and then your back up ruckman (ie whoever you draft) can watch as we pump you.

Fraser can definitely hold his own, but even if he doesn't against Sandilands, Freo does not have a fearful group to get the ball at ground level. The draft has helped Collingwood in that area a lot more in the last few years, so I expect Collingwood to win the ball out of the centre more.

Taz dont need to a lot except provide an alternative target. He was always dangerous against us and that was against defenders ....if Clement goes to Pav, who takes Taz?

Collingwood knows everything about Tarrant's game, and if any side could limit his influence, then it would definitely be Collingwood. I would think that Clement would play on Tarrant, and Prestigiacomo would play on Pavlich. Clement is as good as a defender in footy, and Presti may not get the ball much, but opponents rarely do either. The mid-field is where that helps a lot, and Collingwood's is slowly becoming better.

Fremantle should be much more advanced than Collingwood. Fremantle is probably the oldest playing list in the AFL, and much, much, much older than Collingwood's average age. What they have achieved for such an old group is below expectations I would imagine, and they only finished one win ahead when the finals began this season. Collingwood could switch spots with them in 2007 quite realistically, depending on variables.

Collingwood's challenge in 2007 is getting a group of youngsters performing consistantly often. Fremantle's challenge is making sure their old blokes can all put in each week.

We gave up pick 13, Medhurst and Polak for Tarrant and we are paying him $400,000pa. For that price I am expecting a superstar.

You have received a handy player that is hard to match on that will travel far and wide for possessions that don't hurt, but you have not received a superstar. It has been a high price to pay at this stage I feel, but time will tell. If Medhurst can find consistant form, and if pick #8 is as good as is expected, then it will be a very high price then I think.

For Tarrant AND Solomon... why do people always forget that?

Because Solomon has shown even less than Tarrant has lately. It is a lot to give up for two players that have not done much in recent times. Solomon is slow and turns the ball over, so what is he worth?

I don't think that Medhurst was number 29 on your list. He did not miss a game in four seasons until 2006, and even then he still played 12 matches. That does not suggest that he is a fringe player at all. His challenge is to turn being dumped into producing consistant form, and supplying more goals than Tarrant did, although that won't take many.

 

[Moo]

If you dont want to read this - it will be released as a mini-series later in the year.

First up Steph - my tone was certainly not directed at you but at Noobie Boy - you I know are a loyal Pies supporter, so you get a modicum more respect

Oh yes, and when and how often has Tarrant achieved this? I am not joking, but I can't remember when he has won a match of his own boot. A goal after the siren once doesn't count of course. Tarrant will not win many games on his own, as he showed at Collingwood. Medhurst is more likely to do that.

I didn't say he had to kick the 60m winning bomb, however if Pav for some reason is not available - you dont think Taz is capable of providing a target across the half forward line? We are not a one man team - even if Tarrant can link the play and feed a leading Murphy (in 2006 - 22 goals 8 behinds from 12 games) and of course Jeffery Farmer (in 2006 - 55 goals 21 behinds as a small forward)....it will do.

From 2006 (out of 20 games) which everyone acknowledges as not a great year for him ...In 6 games he averaged over 15 disposals, 10 marks and bags of 3,3, 4, 3, 6 & 1 in these games.

Tarrant was ranked 20th in the league for marks per game - Pavlich was ranked 14th - Rocca is outside the top 60.

He is therefore is good enough to be hold down a key forward role and win games (you beat West Coast this year on the back of 19 disposals, 11 marks and 4 goals).

When Pav does play (which he did in every game last year) ...our insurance policy is going to have a lot of fun.

I think that you're being a bit unfair on Rusling as he received a serious injury pre-season in 2006. I think that without Tarrant, then Cloke, Rusling and Medhurst will together be the revelations of 2007 and take significant steps in the careers. I have no doubt that Rocca will also relish the absence of Tarrant, and the year under his belt, and a full pre-season after missing all of 2005 should improve his fitness.

Rusling - Career games ...11 ...career score: 9 goals 11 behinds - (40 AFL kicks in total) most number of goals in a game 3

Travis Cloke - Career games...15 ...career score:6 goals 12 behinds ....most number of goals in a game 2.

Medders - Can be dangerous, can also go missing and has traditionally been hopeless at the G...last year ...12 goals 19 behinds from 12 games - most in 06 2 goals)

Taz by the way last year kicked 36:31 from 20 games with most in a game 6 goals.

Now Rusling and Cloke look talented but it is a massively big ask to expect them to carry your team and kick a winning score. Especially as they would have had the 3rd defender, and now it will be the 2nd. God forbid if Rocca goes down (shouldnt happen often hopefully).......they suddenly are trying to play on the likes of Glass, Scarlett, McPharlin, Rutten, Bolton.....now wont theat be easy before your 20th game. Rocca kicked 55 goals last year - he will need to kick 70 for you to have a hope of finals.

If Tarrant kicks 30 - we are laughing, as Pav will in all likelihood kick more than the 71 he bagged this year without another quality tall in the vicinity. McPharlin who spent a lot of time forward kicked 15 ....Tarrant releases McPharlin to the backline - where he is amongst the most damaging defenders in the league.

Are we starting to see why Tarrant improves us? This is without him refinding his AA form or anything like it.

However no pressure on your kids.

Fraser can definitely hold his own, but even if he doesn't against Sandilands, Freo does not have a fearful group to get the ball at ground level. The draft has helped Collingwood in that area a lot more in the last few years, so I expect Collingwood to win the ball out of the centre more.

Trouble is if Fraser goes down - who rucks?

With Fraser playing you were 15th in hitouts last year and 16th in 2004 - 05 and this was with back up from Fanning and the Clokes (we were only 10th but Sandilands found his form in the latter half and finals).

We both suck at clearances - your 13th, we are 14th.

If we can learn to use Sandilands domination - theres hope.

If we can get Haselby back there is great hope - if you dont know he only played 16 games and half of those were on 1 leg ....how important is Hase well he averaged more clearances in his hobbled stated than Dane Swan, Rhyce Shaw, Heath Shaw, Brodie Holland, Ben Johnson, Licuria, Lockyer, Buckley & Didak. All of this on his lowest clearance average since his career started in 2000 / 2001.

Also Johnson and Mundy come onto the ball this year if CC is to be believed (Johnson thanks to McPharlin coming back thanks to Tarrant going forward). Mundy was 12th in clearances from a half back flank ...expect this to move up.

Dont know about your mob ...mayube Thomas can push up and cover for Didak, perhaps Heath Shaw can cover for Holland.

If Sandi goes down there is JLo who can shoulder the load with Johnson pinch hitting or even and Warren if required. If Fraser goes down ? who Walker ?

Collingwood knows everything about Tarrant's game, and if any side could limit his influence, then it would definitely be Collingwood. I would think that Clement would play on Tarrant, and Prestigiacomo would play on Pavlich. Clement is as good as a defender in footy, and Presti may not get the ball much, but opponents rarely do either. The mid-field is where that helps a lot, and Collingwood's is slowly becoming better.

Next year without Didak and Holland early ....how you going to travel?

Also you know Tarrant has to be guarded which frees Pav from triple teams and opens space for Farmer ...0 goals from Tarrant and a win will do me just fine.

Fremantle should be much more advanced than Collingwood. Fremantle is probably the oldest playing list in the AFL, and much, much, much older than Collingwood's average age. What they have achieved for such an old group is below expectations I would imagine, and they only finished one win ahead when the finals began this season. Collingwood could switch spots with them in 2007 quite realistically, depending on variables.

No hope of switching places with us ....our 2nd half of the season is where we will pick up. Your squad is missing Tarrant (bag him all you like but you have to find 35 goals to break even) ... plus Didak and Holland to start the year. Face it Steph - your screwed.

Our list age means we are hitting for the flag next year ...so no issue with the boys being at the age to do it.

Collingwood's challenge in 2007 is getting a group of youngsters performing consistantly often. Fremantle's challenge is making sure their old blokes can all put in each week.

Agree.

You have received a handy player that is hard to match on that will travel far and wide for possessions that don't hurt, but you have not received a superstar. It has been a high price to pay at this stage I feel, but time will tell. If Medhurst can find consistant form, and if pick #8 is as good as is expected, then it will be a very high price then I think.

If he kicks those possessions at Pav and Farmer plus 1 or 2 through the big sticks that will do.

Plus it is a lottery Steph - no guarantees.

Because Solomon has shown even less than Tarrant has lately. It is a lot to give up for two players that have not done much in recent times. Solomon is slow and turns the ball over, so what is he worth?

We gave up next to nothing for Solomon.

Reason he has done nothing is he has been matching up on KPP like Hamill and McPharlin ....crazy. With us he wont be asked to punch outside his weight - plus no guarantee of a game without form.

Also he is a tough nut with finals experience with a massive number of games at the G. All it means is we are serious about a tilt at the flag....if Solomon does not work out it was a downgraded pick.

I don't think that Medhurst was number 29 on your list. He did not miss a game in four seasons until 2006, and even then he still played 12 matches. That does not suggest that he is a fringe player at all. His challenge is to turn being dumped into producing consistant form, and supplying more goals than Tarrant did, although that won't take many.

It will take 36 goals to be exact ...he kicked 12 last year (I'll be kind and double it to 24 on average) he kicked 27 goals in 22 games in 2005.

He was close to 29 in our squad but only because Farmer is the best or 2nd best small forward in the league.

Leon will be looking over his shoulder for sure.

There you go Steph - in summary your stuffed and we rock.

 

[KissStephanie]

If you dont want to read this - it will be released as a mini-series later in the year.

No worries Moo, I'll wait until it's released on DVD if I miss some of it!

Firstly, it's hard to compare Collingwood stats with and without Tarrant. I think that Rocca can take more marks without him there, and Pavlich may take less with him there, so last seasons stats don't mean a lot. Tarrant takes his marks where he can't hurt any team. Collingwood may have been 13th in centre clearances, but the future is bright due to the high draft picks used in the last few years. I expect significant further improvement there in 2007.

I don't expect Cloke and Rusling to carry Collingwood, but I do think that along with Medhurst, they can provide more goals next season than Collingwood did with Tarrant last season. They would need to continue a steady improvement, but I think that they can. Alan Didak is planning on being fit for Round 1, so don't assume that he will miss a lot of next season just yet.

If Tarrant kicks 30 goals next season, it could mean that other players have kicked less than they did last season, so time will tell if 30 goals from Tarrant is enough. It may not be and you may need him to kick 50 to take up the slack of who kicked less than they did last season. Pavlich may kick 70 goals without Tarrant, but he may only kick 40-50 with him in the way.

There you go Steph - in summary your stuffed and we rock.

Oh I'm used to non-Collingwood supporters expecting Collingwood to struggle. I've heard it pre-season all of my life, even in years that Collingwood went on to play in Grand Finals, so that doesn't mean much to me.

I can either listen to that, or read the bloke in 'The Age' that said there were many positives for Collingwood in 2006, and the youngsters showed that there should be further improvement to come. I rate that opinion a little higher I must say, and I believe that Collingwood can finish higher than Freo in 2007. Time will tell.

I'll be sure to read more of that novel last post of yours when I have more time.

 

[nipper]

Yeah superstar at the Pies a dog away.

He does not need to be a superstar, we are not claiming he is a superstar, he does not need to win a game of his own boot.

Just needs to be competitive.

Fremantle supporters do not get reeled in by these Collingwood threads, it was these supporters and media that contributed to Chris needing to move on. What you must remember is that the tops teams wanted him. Furthermore, what alot of people don't see on TV is how he is manned up. I went to most Melbourne games last year and the majority of times he often would have two players on him, just like Carey would. Even when carrying severe injuries last year & year before, the other team still placed there best defensive player on him...why..because the coach still viewed him as dangerous. Collingwood will miss him whether they like to admit it or not.

 

[KissStephanie]

If you dont want to read this - it will be released as a mini-series later in the year.

I read it Moo, and now more than 18 months on, it's quite amazing how correct my prediction has been to date! Too bad I can't say the same for you!