The Ashes

[Cannon82]

We're going to get pumped.

Anyone else disappointed that we're going down the road hiring foreign guns to play for us? One of the few reasons we can still look down at the Poms is that they've got half a team of Saffas propping up the few decent cricketers they could develop themselves. Haven't seen much of this Fawad Ahmed chap and although he looks decent and it wouldn't take much to knock Lyon off as our test incumbent, it's short-sighted and pretty poor form from the selectors in my book. They'll probably give him a few tests and then bin him like they've been doing with the rest of the tweakers.

You wouldn't think picking your best XI would be that hard but Invererity and co. make a really good fist of ****ing things up.

 

[Logger]

I think it's closer than most people think, I even think we can win if three or four of our batsmen hit good form and the Poms play like they have against NZ. But we have been woefully mismanaged in the last year and a bit, for a side which is supposed to be building towards the holy grail.

Our best XI should be:
Katich
Warner
Khawaja
Clarke
Hussey
Watson
Wade
Pattinson
Siddle
Harris
Lyon



Of those, Katich and Hussey are retired but should still be playing (Katich could have been helped, Hussey was really unfortunate but perhaps unavoidable), Clarke can barely stand up straight, Khawaja hasn't been played in yonks, Watson should be primarily a bowler who bats a bit but he can't bowl, Wade is being undermined by Haddin being the vice captain and all of the pacemen are injured or recovering.

 

[Captain Jack]

Strong start to the thread haha, I was going to post one at some point but here we go anyway!

Re: Ahmed, I won't hear a bar of us being sell-outs or some crap like that, as Bob Katter said in his finest xenophobic fashion today. If the bloke is an Australian citizen, I have no problem whatsoever with him representing the national team, no matter whether he's been a citizen for 5 decades or 5 minutes. And if he helps us win the Ashes, well isn't that a bonus.

I'll take this angle partly because those who will argue publicly against Fawad getting a game will most likely be using that as a thin veil for expressing their deeply ingrained xenophobia and racism (see Katter). Cannon82 I don't want to cast aspersions on your moral fibre, I'm sure you're a good person (and I see what you mean about the Saff Poms, the bastards), but that's the way I see it. That is, there is far too much latitude in the public discourse of this country for people who play on those primitive and prejudicial sentiments harboured by the uneducated.

Anyway, enough politics.

We are going to get royally caned. I hope Clarkey packed plenty of lube, they are going to need it. Hopefully Chris Rogers can continue his stupidly good form and just completely replace D. Warner at the top. That would be ideal, won't happen though because him and Clarke are best mates. So Warner will continue to flash away at the top, and leave the clean-up to Rogers and Clarke. What a hack.

It is definitely a concern when we have NFI what our best line-up a month before the Ashes. I'll go with this:

Rogers
Cowan
Hughes
Clarke
Khawaja
Watson
Haddin
Siddle
Pattinson
Harris
Lyon

I want to have Starc in there for some left-arm variety but I'm not sure that's justified given the quality of the likes of Harris and Bird. Faulkner could offer a bit, can bat quite well.
Hughes certainly does not inspire confidence, but I think he's worth a crack. The other option, as above, would be Rogers at 3 with Warner opening. Probably more likely I think.
Clarke has to bat at 4 now.
Watson at 6, or nothing. I rate him very highly as a batsman, but his mental weakness means that he needs to be batting down the order and bowling, rather than just batting higher up, to be of any value to the team.
Wade... never has a bandwagon fallen apart more quickly. Keeping needs work. Haddin for sure.

 

[Logger]

Forgot to mention in my post: I think the wickets are going to spin heavily, not just seam. Panesar and Swann put the Indians to the sword on their own tracks and they know we don't have any big turners. Hughes against a ball that does anything other than holding it's line inspires the sort of confidence comparable to watching your safari guide run screaming in the opposite direction.

CJ, I'd swap Warner and Khawaja in your line up, I think Warner could be a handy lower order batsman while playing his natural game, Symonds-style.

 

[maxmustard]

I'd probably open with Watson if fit, it's the only spot hes ever done anything. Slice it and dice it any way you want, our batters are going to get absolutely destroyed. Clarke still has back issues too and man do we need an epic series from him. I think our quicks can do really well on those wickets, but England won't need many runs.

 

[Benwah83]

This Ashes has carnage written all over it. The only thing that may stop a 5-0 whitewash is if the Poms gets cocky, and/or the weather.

To be frank, England toyed with NZ in the 2 test series they just had here. Their batting line-up looks settled. Watch out for Joe Root - the kid is going to be an absolute gun. Odds are he'll probably really make his name against us this series... which will be just our luck. Nick Compton might get the arse from opening, but they'll probably elevate Bell or Root and bring back KP.

Plus, their bowling attack looks settled. They didn't fire all at once against NZ - but they didn't need to. Broad, Anderson, Finn and Swann are hit good form at some point in the two matches.. which is also worrying.

We're getting absolutely pasted in the media over here. After the Cardiff debarcle the word 'spineless' is getting thrown around. Gone are the days where we had a few batsmen in the middle order who could grit their teeth when the going got tough, and just hold onto their wicket until the stowm settled. Apart from Clarke (who is going to need a titanium spine or a wheelchair soon enough), I have little faith in the rest with respect to their ability to hold their nerve in tough times. And their will be plenty of tough times in the coming couple of months.

 

[Demon JP]

Our bowlers should do well in England, but we won't make enough runs unless someone other than Clarke stands up. Rogers has a 'ton' of experience in England so hopefully we see him get a game and some runs (Unfortunately probably won't due to Clarkey's boy club)

 

[Cannon82]

Re: Ahmed, I won't hear a bar of us being sell-outs or some crap like that, as Bob Katter said in his finest xenophobic fashion today. If the bloke is an Australian citizen, I have no problem whatsoever with him representing the national team, no matter whether he's been a citizen for 5 decades or 5 minutes. And if he helps us win the Ashes, well isn't that a bonus.

I get where you're coming from, but when we're amending citizenship laws to make room for someone instead of going with a guy who has been working his whole life towards earning a baggy green, I'm not a fan. Apparently Ahmed's situation in Pakistan wasn't great but this is a move of desperation by the ACB - let's not pretend they're in it for the Cinderella story. It's not like this guy is the second coming of Warnie either; his figures for VIC are tidy but not spectacular (still streets ahead of the rest aside from Steve O'Keeffe).

Also, can understand people moving countries and wanting to represent their new homeland, but the guy has only been around for 3 years. If we're going to end up with players on a waiting list to play for us because they can't get a gig for their home nation or like the idea of a well paid working holiday, international cricket is going to go the same farcical way as the IPL.

Would be nice if expressing an opinion didn't automatically get you labelled a racist, xenophobe, etc too. The internet these days...

 

[Cannon82]

Our best XI should be:
Katich
Warner
Khawaja
Clarke
Hussey
Watson
Wade
Pattinson
Siddle
Harris
Lyon

Katich's sacking was the point where everything visibly started to go to pieces. Have to give credit to the way Clarke has batted in recent seasons, but he is still a massive c**t.
Can't remember the exact details around Hussey's retirement but I vaguely recall it being something about being able to pick and choose his dates instead of getting booted. Clearly the bloke would still be in the best 6 bats in the country.

Anyway, never mind who could be there, sadly we're stuck with the following (I'm guessing at our lineup for the first test):

Watson
Rogers
Hughes
Clarke
Warner
Khawaja
Haddin (+)
Starc
Siddle
Pattinson
Lyon

The bowling is okay, although Starc and Pattinson will probably struggle to control the pill early doors. Lyon will be tidy and non-threatening as usual. Watto will be handy if he doesn't break down and Siddle will toil away like he always does.

The batting is brittle and Anderson should have a field day against technique-less clowns like Hughes and Warner. Haddin isn't much better than Wade but at least he's got plenty of touring experience. If Clarke doesn't pull up from his back injury (pea heart / heart string / heartilage?) issue, Cowan will be in and this will be the worst batting order I've seen in my lifetime.

I don't see us putting enough runs on the board to be competitive. If England start well and get their tails up it's going to be a long series and I have to work with a few Poms who aren't shy of a word or two.

 

[Captain Jack]

I get where you're coming from, but when we're amending citizenship laws to make room for someone instead of going with a guy who has been working his whole life towards earning a baggy green, I'm not a fan. Apparently Ahmed's situation in Pakistan wasn't great but this is a move of desperation by the ACB - let's not pretend they're in it for the Cinderella story. It's not like this guy is the second coming of Warnie either; his figures for VIC are tidy but not spectacular (still streets ahead of the rest aside from Steve O'Keeffe).

Also, can understand people moving countries and wanting to represent their new homeland, but the guy has only been around for 3 years. If we're going to end up with players on a waiting list to play for us because they can't get a gig for their home nation or like the idea of a well paid working holiday, international cricket is going to go the same farcical way as the IPL.

Would be nice if expressing an opinion didn't automatically get you labelled a racist, xenophobe, etc too. The internet these days...

Yeah mate don't get me wrong, I don't think you're racist or anything like that, I'm just saying that this whole Ahmed debate has been a chance for some particularly backwards Australians to have a subtle crack at the immigration situation and all that crap. Again, not lumping you in with them at all because there are legitimate points against having this bloke play for Australia given the circumstances.

That said, I do see what you're saying re: the government bending over backwards to get him in the team. The cynical view would be that the government wants to get a bit of a good news story on an issue which is normally a black hole for them. Partially it seems an admission by those in charge of immigration that the current system is an absolute farce in that it takes so long to process anything at all.
Having just read a bit about it, the amendment is to bring cricket into line with other international sports like tennis in terms of fast-tracking citizenship. So IMO it's not a massive deal that they're doing it anyway, as there would be plenty of precedents in other sports.

On the other hand, in many ways it's similar to the wider issue of the 457 skilled migration visas - the concept of that is to bring someone in from overseas when you can't find a local to do the job properly. That seems like the situation with Ahmed... Lyon is solid, I quite like him really, but beyond that the spin bowling cupboard is bare. Doherty is a certified spud, and Maxwell... don't even. O'Keefe looks good but apparently is a bit of a dick.

So on that front I have no issue with him stealing games from other blokes who have been Australian for longer, because those blokes are no good.

Also, let's not sell short the dedication of Ahmed to his cricketing career... he's played for 8 or 9 different First Class teams in 3 different countries (has been to South Africa as well I think) so I don't really want to discount that just because he hasn't been plugging away in Aus for that whole time.

So after that poorly organised essay, I'm all for it. If he's good enough to play, go for it.

 

[Dory_77]

Glad other people here see Warner is a tool when it comes to batting in tests. Sure he can hit a big 6 and get runs quick when he's on, but he's also prone to farking things up royally and considering batting in Australia's biggest weakness I think he needs to be much more controlled.
Can't see us winning over there unless we get a win in the first game and the next 4 are drawn/washed out (a man can dream right?!). Our bowlers are decent but our batting is poo. I think Watson needs to be played higher in the order as a batsman for this reason. Maybe even have him open with Rogers/Cowan and have Warner as the middle-order slugger.
Biggest problem though will be injuries (after how crap and disorganised we are in comparison to the Poms). Clarke's back isn't holding up so if he's out, we're farked. Our bowlers are constantly getting niggles and Watson isn't particularly reliable on this front either.

In short, we're pretty farked.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Yes, we will be smashed - just on Fawad Ahmed, I'm not sure he's the answer.

The ex coach of Essendon Cricket Club does some part time coaching at Carey (where I've done a bit of coaching) and he was saying that Ahmed tried out for Essendon when he first came over, couldn't field, couldn't bat, wasn't consistent with the ball.

Apparently in the middle of a district practice match he started praying at fine leg (seriously, not trying to be racist - this actually happened).

I'd rather stick with Lyon - we plucked him from nowhere and the improvement he must have made to go from good grade spinner to first picked spinner for the test team would have been huge.

I'd back him to keep improving.

My 'best' XI:

Warner
Cowan
Marsh
Watson
Clarke (c)
Hughes
Wade (wk)
Harris
Siddle
Pattinson
Lyon

Don't even know if Marsh or Cowan are in the squad to be honest...

Chris Rogers isn't the answer, he'll be mediocre.

 

[Cannon82]

Mediocre is good for us these days - Clarke averages 50+ and Haddin and possibly Warner average over 40. Cowan, Hughes, Khawaja barely average 30, and that we'd even consider playing Matthew Wade as a batsman is a prime example of where our batting stocks are at. Recalling Rogers and Haddin at 35 shows where the selectors are at. If Ponting and Hussey had put their hand up, they'd be in too. I'm surprised Brad Hogg didn't get a recall either. Invererity and co. are trying to avoid a humiliation that'd put their jobs in question so they can go back to pulling names out of a hat and hoping for the best.

15 years ago we had Bichel, Kasprowicz, MacGill, Siddons, Law, Lehmann, Love, Maher, Cox, etc punting around at Shield level waiting for someone to get injured / retire. Used to be the only thing harder than getting into the Aus team was getting out of it. Now we're giving baggy greens away.

 

[Captain Jack]

Mediocre is good for us these days - Clarke averages 50+ and Haddin and possibly Warner average over 40. Cowan, Hughes, Khawaja barely average 30, and that we'd even consider playing Matthew Wade as a batsman is a prime example of where our batting stocks are at. Recalling Rogers and Haddin at 35 shows where the selectors are at. If Ponting and Hussey had put their hand up, they'd be in too. I'm surprised Brad Hogg didn't get a recall either. Invererity and co. are trying to avoid a humiliation that'd put their jobs in question so they can go back to pulling names out of a hat and hoping for the best.

15 years ago we had Bichel, Kasprowicz, MacGill, Siddons, Law, Lehmann, Love, Maher, Cox, etc punting around at Shield level waiting for someone to get injured / retire. Used to be the only thing harder than getting into the Aus team was getting out of it. Now we're giving baggy greens away.

Fair to say the rise of T20 has probably diluted the talent pool a lot, and taken away the focus that used to be squarely on Shield cricket. It's a lamentable development in Australian cricket, and they need to find a better balance. The article the other day about having the ODD comp as a separate carnival early in the season has merit (CA are investigating it as an option) to stop the constant switching between formats that the Domestic players have to put up with.

 

[Captain Jack]

Shaun Marsh pulling his finger out would go a long way towards fixing our batting problems tbh. The man can play, but has been in terrible form lately. Probably needs to move states and get a fresh start. I reckon we would take him here in Victoria!

If he could come good soon, the #4 spot would be his for 6-8 years no worries.

 

[Cannon82]

T20 is part of it, but kids preferring video games and moving from competitive cricket to participation in juniors has diluted the talent pool more than hit and giggle. Everyone on the field having to bowl overs and constant batting order rotation are what happens when Little Johnny's mother gets angry at her little darling getting left out.

Rotating between formats will have an effect but it sounds more like an excuse than a genuine cause for problem. Brad Hodge jumps around more than anyone and he didn't seem to have any problems adjusting. Having a technique and a decent temperament is a prereq for the longer format but guys like him have shown you can use those to good effect in the shorter forms. 10 different types of slower ball or a quick 30 odd don't do much for you in a test though.

I like Shaun Marsh as a batsman but he's gone backwards in the last few years. He only seems to do well on the slower decks for some reason. The talent is there but he's getting close to 30 now so he needs to pile the runs on to get back in the mixer. I'd throw Callum Ferguson in there too - he should have done more by now.

 

[Captain Jack]

Ferguson is definitely one who can step up. I remember circa 2008-09 maybe he was a regular in the ODI team, playing the Bevan finishing role very well. Then he did his knee I think, and that set him back a long way. Hopefully he can kick on this year, has shown decent form in the Shield but not consistently enough to get back to where he was.

 

[Demon JP]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...5-0/story-e6frf3gl-1226662198335#.Ubf1gOenArU

I wish I could have as much faith in this team as Allan Border!!!

 

[Benwah83]

He'll be saved the humiliation by the weather.

 

[Logger]

Warner facing another disciplinary hearing for punching an English player in the face at a pub at 2am after the ODI defeat.

Meanwhile, Cowan and Rogers piling on the runs in County Cricket...

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Warner facing another disciplinary hearing for punching an English player in the face at a pub at 2am after the ODI defeat.

Meanwhile, Cowan and Rogers piling on the runs in County Cricket...

Why?!

I'd be encouraging this kind of stuff...

But seriously, who does that?

 

[Benwah83]

Joe Root was apparently the English player on the receiving end.

Warner is a complete dolt.

 

[Captain Jack]

So he'll get charged with assaulting a minor then...

 

[Cannon82]

We're up 1-0. Who'd have thought!

It's a shame on the state of cricket that we'll miss him as a batsman, but I'd love it if they threw the book at him. Warner is a muppet.

 

[Benwah83]

It's being decribed as a 'glancing blow' on the chin.

Warner will now forever be haunted by the sledge 'Couldn't middle a drunk English cricketer in a pub at 2am'.