The captaincy...

[jod23]

Do people see now why Cousins is the captain and Judd is not. Im not putting Judd down as he is a superhuman footballer but he simply isnt captain material yet whereas Cuz has it in spades. Cousins lifted his workrate again when the team needed it today while Judd was completely shut out.

 

[Ruddiger]

Agreed....Cousins has that steely look in his eyes and has stuck with the club through some not so good times. A great leader and top bloke (having met him a couple of times).

IMO he is looking better than ever .... actually that sounds a bit gay. He is playing better than ever

 

[jess-jess]

IMO he is looking better than ever .... actually that sounds a bit gay. He is playing better than ever

you're right on both accounts

 

[Mead]

In fairness to Judd, Cousins started to put it together and consistently put in inspirational 'captain's games' about the same time Judd became the #1 defensive target for opposition last year.

If Shirley had spent the day on Cousins' hammer, and Judd had run free all day, I think we'd get a rather different impression of who was carrying the side.

But I think its a combination of the two really- Cousins maturing as a player, and enjoying far less defensive attention than he had to worry about prior to judd becoming the mega-force that he is.

Its not a bad thing ,far from it. I said prior to this season that Cuz would very likely get under the radar for a few weeks, and so far that's been true. If Judd is heavily tagged for a few more weeks and Cousins continues to tear sides up, sooner or later opposition coaches will decide that Judd is out of form and Cousins is the one that needs tagging... and so the circle of life continues

 

[Thrawn666]

Do people see now why Cousins is the captain and Judd is not. Im not putting Judd down as he is a superhuman footballer but he simply isnt captain material yet whereas Cuz has it in spades. Cousins lifted his workrate again when the team needed it today while Judd was completely shut out.

Please.

If Judd was not captain material then why would the club make him captain in Cousins absence?

Judd has displayed plenty of leadership quality in the captaincy role, and took the game by the scruff of the neck several times last year as captain. Just because he has one down game he isnt captain material? Thats a bit rich.

 

[jod23]

Please.

If Judd was not captain material then why would the club make him captain in Cousins absence?

Judd has displayed plenty of leadership quality in the captaincy role, and took the game by the scruff of the neck several times last year as captain. Just because he has one down game he isnt captain material? Thats a bit rich.

I think you missed my point. Judd is definitely captain material but the point I was trying to make is that he isnt there yet. Why I made this thread is that it ********es me off over the last couple of years how people have gone on and on about Judd taking over as captain.

It's just plain disrespect to our great captain Ben Cousins. IMO Judd will one day be captain of the WCE but not a day before Cuz hangs up his boots.

 

[bluey17]

Yeah we should throw the captaincy at judd to keep him, all cousins does is hand pass

judd is a superstar, but has a LONG way to go before he can captain the club, cousins is miles ahead of him in terms of leadership qualities

 

[bunsen burner]

but has a LONG way to go before he can captain the club, cousins is miles ahead of him in terms of leadership qualities

Probably not true. Judd would walk into the captaincy if Cousins wasn't around. He looks like a natural leader to me and judging by Woosha's decision to let him lead last year when Cousins was injured suggests he thinks so too.

The simple facts are that Cousins is the captain, a good one at that, and should not be replaced. This along with captaincy experience is the only way he's behind Cousins. If Judd was playing at any other club than perhaps Freo, Brisbane, Port, Adelaide, and Essendon, he'd be installed as captain round about now or the near future.

 

[jess-jess]

Probably not true. Judd would walk into the captaincy if Cousins wasn't around. He looks like a natural leader to me and judging by Woosha's decision to let him lead last year when Cousins was injured suggests he thinks so too.

that decision was kind of forced on Woosha though. Had Embley or Gardiner been playing at the time Cuz went down instead of out with long term injuries i don't think Judd would have been made captain personally. Interesting, when Cuz was rested and all 4 vice-captains were playing in the game against Collingwood that Embers was given the role as captain. Be interesting to see who gets it if Cuz doesn't pull up this week.

 

[bunsen burner]

that decision was kind of forced on Woosha though. Had Embley or Gardiner been playing at the time Cuz went down instead of out with long term injuries i don't think Judd would have been made captain personally.

Maybe not in front of Gardiner, but I'd say in front of Embley.

Interesting, when Cuz was rested and all 4 vice-captains were playing in the game against Collingwood that Embers was given the role as captain.

I had the impression it was due to two things:

1. Michael Embley's debut
2. Embley hadn't yet had a go and Woosha wanted to demonstrate his confidence in Embley

Be interesting to see who gets it if Cuz doesn't pull up this week.

My money's on Judd.

And make no mistake - if Cousins died in a car crash tomorrow, Judd would be installed as captain.

 

[weagles_fan]

Judd will be a captain later in his career but at this stage he's still too young.

 

[bluey17]

Judd doesn't really lift a gear when the team really needs it, whereas cousins has plenty of times. You can't really see Judd rallying the troops and firing them up in the huddle.

It was a co-incidence that our winning streak and judds stint as captain happend at the same time.

He's still 5 years off.

 

[bunsen burner]

You can't really see Judd rallying the troops and firing them up in the huddle.

Don't need to do that to be an effective leader.

Quite a few people here seem to correlate this with leadership ability and quite a few people here don't know what they're on about. I still think some people are under the illusion that Jako was a good leader.

It was a co-incidence that our winning streak and judds stint as captain happend at the same time.

I would credit him for the wins but he did show that he led well.

He's still 5 years off.

Get your hand off it.

 

[West Coast Fan 123]

To say Judd doesnt lift when we need him to is rubbish. Anyone remeber the Sydney final? Nobody could get a kick up forward and then Juddy kicked a couple to lift the team. And the Carlton final when he kicked that incredible bannana goal. Judd does lift a gear when needed just because he didn't do it on Sunday, doesnt mean he never does. Juddy will be captain this week but Cousins IS the captain of the West Coast Ealges untill he hangs up the boots (or dies).

 

[bluey17]

How can you possibly say that rallying the troops and pumping up the players has nothing to do with leadership? Its what all captains do and its an integral part of being a captain. Not only do they need to lead by example in terms of performance but they must lift and motivate the team, on the field where the coach isn't present.

Edit : -

Oh yeah, the 5 year comment. To captain our great club, you really need to mature as a player and a person and show a great deal of loyalty to the club.

Cousins' first year was 96 and wasn't captain until 01? So i think it will take Judd another 3-4 years to be captain material.

 

[jod23]

Just to get a couple of things clear and if you could all answer with simply putting a yes or no next to the numbers 1 and 2.

1. Chris Judd is definitely captain material?

2. Chris Judd shouldnt and wont be captain until Ben Cousins hangs up his boots.

For me Im yes on 1 and 2.

 

[bunsen burner]

How can you possibly say that rallying the troops and pumping up the players has nothing to do with leadership?

I never said that. Just you being a tool and thinking what you want to think.

Its what all captains do and its an integral part of being a captain. Not only do they need to lead by example in terms of performance but they must lift and motivate the team, on the field where the coach isn't present.

I don't think you and many others get it. I get the feeling many of you believe that a) visual pumping up directly correlates with captain performance, b) a person can't be a good captain if they don't do the big "pump up" speeches, c) it must be done all the time, and d) it's the most important facet of leadership.

A person like Judd would be acting unnatural if he were running around pumping everyone up a la Jakovich. Different personalities have different ways of leading and motivating. Quiet and reserved people can lead too.

To captain our great club, you really need to mature as a player and a person and show a great deal of loyalty to the club.

Sounds like Chris Judd to me.

Just because a player won't be as good a captain at 22 as he would 27, doesn't mean he isn't ready.

 

[bluey17]

Quiet and reserved people can lead, but are they as effective as people who are more out going and loud?

IMO no, but you obviously disagree, fine, doesn't make you a tool though.

 

[bunsen burner]

Quiet and reserved people can lead, but are they as effective as people who are more out going and loud?

IMO no, but you obviously disagree, fine, doesn't make you a tool though.

I just disagree with you and many other people's assertion that there's a direct correlation between noticeably pumping a team up and leadership ability. You made the assumption that Judd isn't as good a leader as Cousins solely because you didn't see him vocally pumping up the team. Shows your simple view on the situation.

Most people felt Jako was a leader and should have been captain because they used to see him forever pumping the boys up. Anyone can jump about and look the part but that doesn't mean people will respond.

 

[Frodo]

I just disagree with you and many other people's assertion that there's a direct correlation between noticeably pumping a team up and leadership ability. You made the assumption that Judd isn't as good a leader as Cousins solely because you didn't see him vocally pumping up the team. Shows your simple view on the situation.

Most people felt Jako was a leader and should have been captain because they used to see him forever pumping the boys up. Anyone can jump about and look the part but that doesn't mean people will respond.

I think Jako did a lot more than that but I agree that leadership is a many faceted ability. And I think putting Juddy in the leadership group will help him understand what is needed and therefore become a leader at quite a young age.

eg. Leading by example.

 

[bunsen burner]

I think Jako did a lot more than that

But Jako wasn't a leader. Thought he was, but he wasn't. If he was what many thought he was then he would have been made captain in front of McKenna and Kemp.

 

[mentalgrind]

i just want to say one thing on the jako issue.

i'm a mate of glass's bro and he was saying that jako leaving was the best thing for the club. the youngsters used to be too scared to do anything around jako without copping a blast. his passion wasn't always controlled.

this is apparently what darren has told brett. although saying that brett thinks banfield should be playing wafl

 

[Goldenblue]

With no disrespect to Cousins, they are both quality leaders in different ways.

Cuz is the motivator, the showing by example type, the speechmaker, and lifts a gear for his team mates and shows his passion to the club and is respected by the players.

Juddy is the quiet achiever, the showing by example, shows calmness in a bad situation, plays his guts out and most of all is loyal and well respected by the players.

Both chalk and cheese, both fine leaders.

 

[bunsen burner]

i just want to say one thing on the jako issue.

i'm a mate of glass's bro and he was saying that jako leaving was the best thing for the club. the youngsters used to be too scared to do anything around jako without copping a blast. his passion wasn't always controlled.

I remember when the captaincy was up for grabs. I was one of the very few who thought Cousins was the best man for it and would get it. So many thought Jako was the ultimate leader because they see him being vocal all the time.

Apart from having a strong suspicion he was a bit of a tool, I had a strong source within the club that although Jako is respected, the players don't take him too seriously. Too gung ho and just not on the same wavelength as the others. What was funny is that just two days after I made this comment, both John Todd and Chris Mainwaring said exactly the same thing. Some people still think Jako should have been captain and still believe he was an excellent leader.

Just to highlight how much of a tool Jako can be: Last year I went to the derby. When the players came out of the race, Jako was out the front pumping up the guys like he was the captain. Some people interpret that as being a born leader whilst others interpret it as treading on toes. I've very sure it was a case of the latter and reinforces everything I have been told about Jako as a person.