Analysis The changes we have to make going forward...

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

Ok I’ll start. The management at STKFC is mediocre. No shit Sherlock. In my view the ceo, gm, coach, president and list + recruiting management an is the key. CEO - Finnis It’s harsh but true. You can’t get anywhere with a ceo focused on minor things. Although they are important, footy is more. His traits are ordinary and a reflection on where we are at. GM - Lethlean Has traits but I’m not sold. He was part of the rabble (gold coast) but I see a very good strategic leader who could take us forward. Probably better as a CEO. The next coach appointed will be key. President - Bassat . I think he was the ideal replacement of summers. May be early but I like him. Great personify and planning and bleeds RW&B. List Manager - GallagherWhen we appointed him I had no clue who he was, but last years draft imo was great. King at 4, bytel at 41 (steal if he gets his body right) Hind at 55 (off the top of my head) and young at around 70 plus Wilkie at rookie 3. That’s drafting. I think needs one more year to prove himself. I don’t rate the board, the guy (Hilton) who we appointed may be good, but the rest are hopeless. One of them doesn’t even live in Melbourne. Anyway, changes to the ceo, and other management needs to be done going forward.

The other part of my post is the playing group. Has potential but needs more. We have passengers in our b22 and it’s not funny. Imo another exodus is required. A clean out. In my view, the ones won’t make it/will be traded/retired.
Newnes
Rice
White
Austin?
Goat (send him to wa)
Stuv
Armo
Young?
Sinclair (should be traded)
Robbo
Mccartin That’s 10 gone. Fill them with young, talented players ie Caldwell and bing. We still have passengers though. My targets would be
Hill, Caldwell, Constable, Bing, (insert draftee x 2) + other handy pickups. Then our list will be a whole lot stronger. With kids that we already have: bytel, King, Clark, battle, Coff, gresh, Paton, jbillings, Marshall. That’s a strong core. + add bing, Caldwell and Constable... But get rid of the list cloggers first, then start filling. Thoughts?

 

[Mat Mann]

So Finnis's traits are ordinary, what traits are those, be specific..... focused on minor things..... what like Morrabbin?. The Stadium Deal at Docklands, ahh your referring to the Pride game most likely and Maddie's Match, For a club without a standalone game, He's been able to deliver 2 match's that actually have a meaning other than just 4 points.

I'm all for calling out bad decisions/appointments but at least be specific about them.
From where we were at his appointment to where we are now is a massive and very very understated transition, that's not to say there haven't been mistakes but we hardly know enough to say they were mistakes or restraints.

as for the list, there's already a trade and draft threads, but if it was my call

Newnes - on the table/otherwise keep
Rice - not offered contract
White - Retain
Austin? - not offered contract
Goat - Retain
Stuv- his call
Armo - Retire
Young? - Retain
Sinclair - on the table/otherwise keep
Robbo - his call
Mccartin - Retire
Longer - not offered contract
Joyce - Retain
Langlands - Retain
Carlisle - Retain
Marsh - Retain
Pierce - re/rookie if he can keep going
Dunstan - on the table/otherwise keep
Brown - Retain/ 1 more year
Rowe - not offered contract
Savage -on the table/otherwise keep

5 gone plus others if we trade.

Its all well and good to delist but we still have 43 spots to fill

 

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

So Finnis's traits are ordinary, what traits are those, be specific..... focused on minor things..... what like Morrabbin?. The Stadium Deal at Docklands, ahh your referring to the Pride game most likely and Maddie's Match, For a club without a standalone game, He's been able to deliver 2 match's that actually have a meaning other than just 4 points.

I'm all for calling out bad decisions/appointments but at least be specific about them.
From where we were at his appointment to where we are now is a massive and very very understated transition, that's not to say there haven't been mistakes but we hardly know enough to say they were mistakes or restraints.

as for the list, there's already a trade and draft threads, but if it was my call

Newnes - on the table/otherwise keep
Rice - not offered contract
White - Retain
Austin? - not offered contract
Goat - Retain
Stuv- his call
Armo - Retire
Young? - Retain
Sinclair - on the table/otherwise keep
Robbo - his call
Mccartin - Retire
Longer - not offered contract
Joyce - Retain
Langlands - Retain
Carlisle - Retain
Marsh - Retain
Pierce - re/rookie if he can keep going
Dunstan - on the table/otherwise keep
Brown - Retain/ 1 more year
Rowe - not offered contract
Savage -on the table/otherwise keep

5 gone plus others if we trade.

Its all well and good to delist but we still have 43 spots to fill

Just don’t think Finnis is the right guy, not what we need. I know the club was in a horrible state when he took over but we were so bad then it was hard not to improve. He is ok. Does some good stuff. I know there is a list management three but I think it is appropriate to put the comments on the list on here because when you talk about progress in footy, it’s mainly about the list moving forward as well as the management. Appreciate the response.

 

[joop]

We aren't goona delist/trade 25% of our list. It would be a debacle.

 

[Veer Right]

I will have a crack

Delist

Mccartin - health
Robbo - health
Armo - slow
Rowe - We dont even want to play him now
Longer - health/limited ability
Pierce - spud

Keep

Carlisle i am happy to keep if he is used as an interceptor. which is his strength. Not a lock down backmen and definately not a forward.
Long is another season away from the 50 game barrier. Needs to find more of of the pill and to lay a tackle.
Brown - required. Been good this year.
Austin - I rate him. See how he recovers from injury next year.
Joyce - One more year to work on his game.

Trade

Lonie - Third rounder would do
White - as above
Rice - as above
Steven - Would not mind multiple second rounders, like lets say four? Would help removing other dead wood.

Need a second ruck.
Need another tall forward irrespective of Ming. Bing may be the answer.
Quality outside ball user. Something in the mould of Issac Smith.
Gresham forward might be preferable as well. Miss his goals and assists.

Fix our seconds team. Rabble.

 

[joop]

I will have a crack

Delist

Mccartin - health
Robbo - health
Armo - slow
Rowe - We dont even want to play him now
Longer - health/limited ability
Pierce - spud

Keep

Carlisle i am happy to keep if he is used as an interceptor. which is his strength. Not a lock down backmen and definately not a forward.
Long is another season away from the 50 game barrier. Needs to find more of of the pill and to lay a tackle.
Brown - required. Been good this year.
Austin - I rate him. See how he recovers from injury next year.
Joyce - One more year to work on his game.

Trade

Lonie - Third rounder would do
White - as above
Rice - as above
Steven - Would not mind multiple second rounders, like lets say four? Would help removing other dead wood.

Need a second ruck.
Need another tall forward irrespective of Ming. Bing may be the answer.
Quality outside ball user. Something in the mould of Issac Smith.
Gresham forward might be preferable as well. Miss his goals and assists.

Fix our seconds team. Rabble.

no one is gonna give us draft picks for white and rice.

 

[goodie23]

Not sure I see us being able to trade any big fish in this year, we don't have the currency and while we've got the cap we're just not an attractive prospect. Equally there's little point swinging deep through our list as we'll end up replacing them with a whole bunch of mature agers and speculative picks from late in the draft which will most likely have us end up back in the same position.

We decide who our core are and how we're going to develop them, our Greshes, Romas, Battles. Short-term contracts to role players, if they want to go to another club we help make that happen, try to improve our shocking draft hand while we're at it. Hang on to our leaders while the core develops, while it's tempting to part with the likes of Carlisle and Ross as they actually have some currency all you have to do is look at what happened to Melbourne when they decapitated their leadership.

And continue the work we started last year, let's find another Wilkie, another Hind, another Parker. Let's mine the areas that other clubs have neglected, play the draft smart rather than just grabbing 18 year olds for the sake of 'youth'.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I will have a crack

Delist

Mccartin - health
Robbo - health
Armo - slow
Rowe - We dont even want to play him now
Longer - health/limited ability
Pierce - spud

Keep

Carlisle i am happy to keep if he is used as an interceptor. which is his strength. Not a lock down backmen and definately not a forward.
Long is another season away from the 50 game barrier. Needs to find more of of the pill and to lay a tackle.
Brown - required. Been good this year.
Austin - I rate him. See how he recovers from injury next year.
Joyce - One more year to work on his game.

Trade

Lonie - Third rounder would do
White - as above
Rice - as above
Steven - Would not mind multiple second rounders, like lets say four? Would help removing other dead wood.

Need a second ruck.
Need another tall forward irrespective of Ming. Bing may be the answer.
Quality outside ball user. Something in the mould of Issac Smith.
Gresham forward might be preferable as well. Miss his goals and assists.

Fix our seconds team. Rabble.

Agree with your assessment.

My issue is too many of our players lack consistency and get exposed when the opposition is bigger and faster.

You cant win when the opposition 3 x back pockets/flankers rack up the most metres gained in any game. Thats 3 or 4 of our small forwards not doing their job defensively. Bruce works hard but needs to learn to change his approach when his opponent continually (Casbult) pushes him under the ball.

We are going to have a lot of retirements and delistings so the list will be a balancing act, but I would offer the below up for trade -

Lonie he just gets exposed far too often and cant be relied on in front of goal.
Dunstan just got a new contract but is too slow and sloppy with his skills and gets killed against quicker midfields.
Sinclair is a gop and again lacks composure when required.
Newnes tries his heart out but lacks skills and composure to go the next level.
I wouldnt offer him up but if a club came asking with a top midfield trade - Carlisle.
Stuv wants to go so he gets his wish, he was terrible yesterday.
McKenzie if anyone is silly enough to want him.

I have said it nearly every week but get our midfielders travelling forward on instinct. Take the game forward. Bartel just mentioned that is Adelaides issue (going backwards/sideways) but it has been ours for the entire time Richardson was at the club.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Our core moving forward is:

Marshall
Billings
Clark
King
Gresham
Steele
Coffield
Ross
Hind
Battle
Membrey
Carlisle
Hannebery
Bruce
Wilkie

Everyone else is either not up to it, expendable or unlikely to continue with us (Roberton, Steven, McCartin). Need to be ruthless with players who hold some value but aren't performing to the standard we need. There are a lot of quality trade/FA targets this season and I suspect we'll see some of Newnes, Dunstan, Acres, Lonie, Savage, Sinclair etc moved on.

 

[stfan]

Not sure I see us being able to trade any big fish in this year, we don't have the currency and while we've got the cap we're just not an attractive prospect.

I think Hill is the only gettable one. However whomever of Hawks or Blues that misses out on Cogs will quite possibly then chase Hill.
Crows likely to slide out of the 8 and so the Blues first pick is about the right currency for Hill. Blues can throw as much $$ at Hill as we can. Hawks will not.


We may land Tomlinson, but Tomlinson is a handy fish and not a big fish.

 

[Saintbloke]

Not sure I see us being able to trade any big fish in this year, we don't have the currency and while we've got the cap we're just not an attractive prospect. Equally there's little point swinging deep through our list as we'll end up replacing them with a whole bunch of mature agers and speculative picks from late in the draft which will most likely have us end up back in the same position.

We decide who our core are and how we're going to develop them, our Greshes, Romas, Battles. Short-term contracts to role players, if they want to go to another club we help make that happen, try to improve our shocking draft hand while we're at it. Hang on to our leaders while the core develops, while it's tempting to part with the likes of Carlisle and Ross as they actually have some currency all you have to do is look at what happened to Melbourne when they decapitated their leadership.

And continue the work we started last year, let's find another Wilkie, another Hind, another Parker. Let's mine the areas that other clubs have neglected, play the draft smart rather than just grabbing 18 year olds for the sake of 'youth'.

Yep- a couple more mature recruits can help if done wisely.

 

[stfan]

There are a lot of quality trade/FA targets this season

There are? Who and lets ignore the ones that we will not land like Cogs.

Quality Trades?
Hill is the only one?

There is Martin, but is inconsistent and so I do not rate him as a quality player. If we land him it will be for his potential.

Jones. Ok, but I am not that excited.

Quality FAs?
Goldstein, but is old and will stymie Marshall.

Tomlinson. Gettable yes, but quality? He is better than average, but I don't think he is quality. Would be good for our best 22 though. Probably push Acres off the wing.


Trade Outs

I doubt we will land much back for the players that we see as excess to requirements. Maybe some could be steak knives in a trade. The value of Steven will no longer be huge. The likes of Acres, Sinclair etc are not going to gain much.


THE TRADE/DRAFT

Right now I would be hopeful of gaining Hill and Tomlinson. Tomlinson if we gain him then wipes out any compensatory value if Newnes leaves as a FA (would not be high anyway.

Steven if he goes to the Cats if we are lucky will gain a good young fringe player like Constable and if unlucky gains their late second round pick.

So to get Hill our Pick 5 will go in some shape or form. So we will enter the draft maybe with a late second rounder and some thirds and fourths.

That means that we will bargain shopping again with more mature-agers like last year and another young slider in the draft (Unfortunately Battle is about the only slider that has actually paid off.

Unless some rabbits our pulled out the hat we look likely starting 2020 with an underwhelming list. Max and Bytel will be carrying a lot of hope that they can be exceptional players as we have a not just a vanilla list, but a bland one.

 

[DarkSaint]

The one name that I will throw up is Danny Sexton. Has been a director of coaching since 2015 and quite frankly you could say that he has been a fail.

I'm not sure what his role at the club is, but I believe it's to oversee the coaching group if I'm not mistaken. Our forward line has not functioned since I can remember, the development has not come on as expect and our coach was sacked.

I believe we need a new person in this role moving forward. He has had enough time and it's time to go.

 

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

Some better coaches(assistants) and doc would be nice, agree with Dark saint. I think we just need to phase out the passengers and grab what we can get to move on.

 

[Impatient Saint]

One other thing is f.... that Danny Sexton parasite off from the club! What does he do? What he has ever brought to the club to deserve the run he has had? Every coach he has ever worked for or assisted was a dud. I just cant for the life of me see how he has lasted this long?

 

[StCicatriz]

Finnis just aint up to it

 

[cartwright]

Fix the seconds and improve on our development of players.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I think Hill is the only gettable one. However whomever of Hawks or Blues that misses out on Cogs will quite possibly then chase Hill.
Crows likely to slide out of the 8 and so the Blues first pick is about the right currency for Hill. Blues can throw as much $$ at Hill as we can. Hawks will not.


We may land Tomlinson, but Tomlinson is a handy fish and not a big fish.

Tomlinson is like a Salmon , fun to catch but you really dont want to eat them

 

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

Anyone thinking of another exodus?

 

[cartwright]

Anyone thinking of another exodus?

of?

 

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

of?

Delisting like we delisted 7 players last year.

 

[Ads734]

I get people wanting to do a big list clean out but it poses problems for us due to our draft picks available.
Currently we have pick 5, 55, 71 and 76 etc etc. The issue is if we make 8 list changes or something drastic we will be all but replacing them with prospective young kids. If thats the case we'd be better off to keep some of these players. The situation would be different if we had say 5 picks in the first couple rounds. This is obviously not the case hoever. The other solution is to follow the pattern of drafting from last year which was to focus on mature agers espeically which the later picks. It just doesn;t make sense to do a big list cull unfortunately.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Ok I’ll start. The management at STKFC is mediocre. No s**t Sherlock. In my view the ceo, gm, coach, president and list + recruiting management an is the key. CEO - Finnis It’s harsh but true. You can’t get anywhere with a ceo focused on minor things. Although they are important, footy is more. His traits are ordinary and a reflection on where we are at.

stopped reading about here .... as it clear this is just a stock standard rant without any clue .... Moving to Moorabbin is a minor thing? Securing our comercial viability is a minor thing ? entrenching our club into the bayside community to ensure our club long term presence is a minor thing ? linking with local state and national government to source funding and grants to build the facility to house our club is a minor thing ?
Footy is important but you cant have the footy going well if you dont have a bloody club to start off with ... as the CEO his job is to run the business of the club and from that part he has done a smashing job of it.. how many CEO's in our history have been able to secure the grants and funding that Finnis has ? our linking with the Sandringham Dragons, our movment into the VFLW and the AFLW are all items that are of vital importance to the viability of our club long term yes to the outside it does look as if they are not important but to entrench our club into that community we need to be linked to all these things for us to secure fundings ....

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Finnis just aint up to it

he has done damn fine getting funding for moorabbin from government that no other CEO has been able to get ... hes managed to secure sponsors of our club longer than the one year merry-go-round we have previously had, our membership numbers despite a decade out of finals has stayed pretty constant under him as well..
so what is he actually not up to ?

 

[VDS66]

Tomlinson is like a Salmon , fun to catch but you really dont want to eat them

I love Salmon...