The Cricket Thread

[grizzlym]

Not sure, it's not impossible but I just think it's more "Clarke wanting to be the top dog amongst the pups".

Can't do that with a 31 year old vice captain next to him

There has been swirling rumours amongst the press people about disquiet between Clarke and a number of players.

Unfortunately, you ca hang players for whatever offences - drunkenness, missing training, not doing the homework - and also claim its cumulative, but it all comes back to one thing in my book: leadership. And that's from the coaches and non-playing staff, including selectors, as well as your senior players. It speaks of a cultural issue beyond 'just sucking', and I think the bigger questions need to be asked of those 'guiding the team' and establishing the culture. That's not to excuse whatever indiscretions though.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

There has been swirling rumours amongst the press people about disquiet between Clarke and a number of players.

Unfortunately, you ca hang players for whatever offences - drunkenness, missing training, not doing the homework - and also claim its cumulative, but it all comes back to one thing in my book: leadership. And that's from the coaches and non-playing staff, including selectors, as well as your senior players. It speaks of a cultural issue beyond 'just sucking', and I think the bigger questions need to be asked of those 'guiding the team' and establishing the culture. That's not to excuse whatever indiscretions though.

More than just rumours mate, simply put, they're facts.

Clarke's on field leadership has been great, no qualms at all there. Off the field, he's been horrid. He's lost a bunch of the players, Warner on the other hand licks his arse non stop and Maxwell has cottoned on too after a rocky start.

 

[Dinsdale]

I cant beleive it hasn't been said yet... "cricket, its a funny old game"...
(sorry, I'll get my hat)

 

[Henry Jr]

Clarke's on field leadership has been great, no qualms at all there. Off the field, he's been horrid. He's lost a bunch of the players, Warner on the other hand licks his arse non stop and Maxwell has cottoned on too after a rocky start.

Wonder what the market is on Davey boy being VC for the upcoming test?

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

Wonder what the market is on Davey boy being VC for the upcoming test?

Wouldn't even be a market I'm afraid. I'd almost go as far as saying expect an announcement shortly, but I'd assume they'll allow Watson to announce his retirement first.

Edit - Warner will be VC, apologies I didn't read the last two words of your post.

 

[grizzlym]

More than just rumours mate, simply put, they're facts.

Clarke's on field leadership has been great, no qualms at all there. Off the field, he's been horrid. He's lost a bunch of the players, Warner on the other hand licks his arse non stop and Maxwell has cottoned on too after a rocky start.

Do you think that Warne's comments re captain not being a selector etc, even though he's a great mate of Clarke's, are predicated on that assumption?

To me, what Clarke did to take the step from being a very good batsman to arguably the best in the world was to totally embrace his training and preparation. He's noticeably much fitter, his concentration is much better and, most importantly, I reckon his mindset when he's batting has changed remarkably. He no longer dwells. if he misses a ball, or has a close call, he seems to be able to take block again, put it out of his head and just play the next ball on its merits. I also think that by and large is captaincy, given the soldiers he's given (or picks himself), is very good too.But yes, off-field, I only have snippets from cricketing and journo mates, but I wonder if, under a more conventional role of a captain, this wouldn't be so much of an issue. Dunno. Just musing.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

Do you think that Warne's comments re captain not being a selector etc, even though he's a great mate of Clarke's, are predicated on that assumption?

To me, what Clarke did to take the step from being a very good batsman to arguably the best in the world was to totally embrace his training and preparation. He's noticeably much, his concentration is much better and, most importantly, I reckon his mindset when he's batting has changed remarkably. He no longer dwells. if he misses a ball, or has a close call, he seems to be able to take block again, put it out of his head and just play the next ball on its merits. I also think that by and large is captaincy, given the soldiers he's given (or picks himself), is very good too.But yes, off-field, I only have snippets from cricketing and journo mates, but I wonder if, under a more conventional role of a captain, this wouldn't be so much of an issue. Dunno. Just musing.

I think so, but Warne suggesting Maxwell should bat at three was the last time I gave him the time of day.

 

[grizzlym]

I think so, but Warne suggesting Maxwell should bat at three was the last time I gave him the time of day.

Yes, Warne has my utmost respect as a brilliant, brilliant cricketer but I find it hard to cope with some of his headline generating waffle.

 

[Henry Jr]

Clarke also gave up Ponting's 'watch the ball' talk before every delivery too.

 

[Langford4FBOTC]

I got to say that I don't have a lot of tolerance for all this lost the players stuff. We all agree that Clarke's on field leadership is first rate and that he's really the only player in the side that genuinely deserves a place in the Australian Cricket team (perhaps aside from Pattinson). I'm making a bit of a leap here, but I reckon it's safe to assume his struggles off the field have surrounded his man management skills in dealing with individual player failings and shortcomings. If players don't like the way they're being dealt with because their performances aren't up to scratch... well, suck it up, earn some respect through performances and if you don't like it, tell your story walking.
Players and the captain being let down by support structures, scheduling, domestic competition standards etc is a separate issue, but to start laying it at the feet of the skipper is a bit rich IMO.

 

[Brishawk]

Do you think that Warne's comments re captain not being a selector etc, even though he's a great mate of Clarke's, are predicated on that assumption?

To me, what Clarke did to take the step from being a very good batsman to arguably the best in the world was to totally embrace his training and preparation. He's noticeably much fitter, his concentration is much better and, most importantly, I reckon his mindset when he's batting has changed remarkably. He no longer dwells. if he misses a ball, or has a close call, he seems to be able to take block again, put it out of his head and just play the next ball on its merits. I also think that by and large is captaincy, given the soldiers he's given (or picks himself), is very good too.But yes, off-field, I only have snippets from cricketing and journo mates, but I wonder if, under a more conventional role of a captain, this wouldn't be so much of an issue. Dunno. Just musing.

I thought warne said the coach shouldn't be a selector and that selection should ultimately lie with the captain.

 

[Henry Jr]

I'm making a bit of a leap here, but I reckon it's safe to assume his struggles off the field have surrounded his man management skills in dealing with individual player failings and shortcomings.

Sounds like Nathan Buckley as a captain.

 

[grizzlym]

I thought warne said the coach shouldn't be a selector and that selection should ultimately lie with the captain.

I dunno, I don;t really pay huge attention to Warney.

 

[grizzlym]

I got to say that I don't have a lot of tolerance for all this lost the players stuff. We all agree that Clarke's on field leadership is first rate and that he's really the only player in the side that genuinely deserves a place in the Australian Cricket team (perhaps aside from Pattinson). I'm making a bit of a leap here, but I reckon it's safe to assume his struggles off the field have surrounded his man management skills in dealing with individual player failings and shortcomings. If players don't like the way they're being dealt with because their performances aren't up to scratch... well, suck it up, earn some respect through performances and if you don't like it, tell your story walking.
Players and the captain being let down by support structures, scheduling, domestic competition standards etc is a separate issue, but to start laying it at the feet of the skipper is a bit rich IMO.

How much man management do you think a captain should do off field?

 

[Langford4FBOTC]

How much man management do you think a captain should do off field?

I'm not sure. In the dressing room, he has a huge role. Aside from that, I guess a lot depends on the person.
But if this team disunity is genuinely about some under performing players that feel aggrieved at how their egos have been handled, then I don't have a problem with a line in the sand approach.

 

[grizzlym]

I'm not sure. In the dressing room, he has a huge role. Aside from that, I guess a lot depends on the person.
But if this team disunity is genuinely about some under performing players that feel aggrieved at how their egos have been handled, then I don't have a problem with a line in the sand approach.

It's quite phenomenal that a VC has been sent home. And it's equally as phenomenal that the powers that be see it as necessary.

I found Patterson's reaction interesting: took it on the chin, said he fracked up, and moved on. Watson on the other hand.

 

[Langford4FBOTC]

It's quite phenomenal that a VC has been sent home. And it's equally as phenomenal that the powers that be see it as necessary.

I found Patterson's reaction interesting: took it on the chin, said he fracked up, and moved on. Watson on the other hand.

I think that sums it up perfectly.... I know who I'd want in my team

 

[Noneedforaname]

Like him or lump him, he took Australia from a good side, to one of the best ever.

Hughes is there by default, he would know that, and he gets a shot at redemption. You could look at it this way, if Khawaja had actually done what he was asked, and really what he was paid for, he might be our new number 3

Too much going on and not being questioned.

You make this out to be 4 naughty schoolboys who havent done their homework. That is such a massive oversimplification, that I think the word 'naive' (which was mentioned a few posts back), is precisely the word to describe the situation.

If only it was 4 very naughty boys .....

You realy think the K coulda been playing this game, or has Clarke stamped his papers anyhow? Think Patto isnt sick of this resting bullshit? Wade, WADE, he actually goes to the trouble of shooting himself in the foot to avoid the whole charade and any further role in the matter. Mitch, he's been round long enough to know how the game works. He's also another former teammate of the boy wonder.

Watto, jeez, I remember when a nonce of a player by the name of Michael Clarke ponced about and let his side down when it mattered - regularly. Scored big when it didnt matter. I'd say he almost white anted Ponting position over time, but hasnt he risen Lazarus style and redeemed himself.
Watto is probably every bit as sick of CA as us and any other cricket watcher. He would know as well as anyone he should been dropped, but he's been kept in the side to maintain the facade of the happy family, to prop up and maintain the pecking order round Clarke.

I see 4 guys making a stand, not an open act of rebellion, but a small act of defiance to the exalted few, and their sycophants. The whole sorry mess needs to be brought to a head, and I hope this is the catalyst for it.

 

[Noneedforaname]

Pretty good captain at the time too if I remember correctly and handy players in mcgrath, warne, haydos, langer... the list goes on. One could argue that a monkey could have sat there and the team would have achieved what it did.

Has a ring of the Alan Joyces about it. Pretty good time to pop us as a 'caretaker' coach. Had some handy players at his disposal.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

Too much going on and not being questioned.

You make this out to be 4 naughty schoolboys who havent done their homework. That is such a massive oversimplification, that I think the word 'naive' (which was mentioned a few posts back), is precisely the word to describe the situation.

If only it was 4 very naughty boys .....

You realy think the K coulda been playing this game, or has Clarke stamped his papers anyhow? Think Patto isnt sick of this resting bullshit? Wade, WADE, he actually goes to the trouble of shooting himself in the foot to avoid the whole charade and any further role in the matter. Mitch, he's been round long enough to know how the game works. He's also another former teammate of the boy wonder.

Watto, jeez, I remember when a nonce of a player by the name of Michael Clarke ponced about and let his side down when it mattered - regularly. Scored big when it didnt matter. I'd say he almost white anted Ponting position over time, but hasnt he risen Lazarus style and redeemed himself.
Watto is probably every bit as sick of CA as us and any other cricket watcher. He would know as well as anyone he should been dropped, but he's been kept in the side to maintain the facade of the happy family, to prop up and maintain the pecking order round Clarke.

I see 4 guys making a stand, not an open act of rebellion, but a small act of defiance to the exalted few, and their sycophants. The whole sorry mess needs to be brought to a head, and I hope this is the catalyst for it.

You're going to get slammed for this buddy, but first let me get in and say bloody well done.

 

[grizzlym]

If its four guys making a stand why has Pattinson apologised unreservedly and said he fracked up? Nah, sorry, don't buy it.

I like the idea, just don't see it as the reality.

 

[djboonie]

Top 10 run scorers 2012-13 (sorry for the delay Henry Jr)

Most runs
Player		Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RT Ponting	7	12	4	685	200*	85.62	1157	59.20	2	3	1	81	12
(Tasmania)
PJ Hughes	6	12	0	673	158	56.08	1137	59.19	2	3	0	85	2
(South Australia)
CJL Rogers	9	15	2	644	131	49.53	1386	46.46	3	0	0	70	1
(Victoria)
AJ Doolan	8	14	1	635	149	48.84	1208	52.56	1	4	0	91	2
(Tasmania)
MJ Cosgrove	9	16	0	591	104	36.93	1128	52.39	1	4	1	78	2
(Tasmania)
CJ Ferguson	8	15	0	578	164	38.53	1319	43.82	1	2	0	69	1
(South Australia)
NJ Maddinson	7	14	0	481	154	34.35	704	68.32	1	2	2	62	5
(New South Wales)
CL White	8	13	1	473	144	39.41	944	50.10	1	3	2	50	10
(Victoria)
BJ Haddin	7	11	2	468	114	52.00	735	63.67	2	2	0	57	7
(New South Wales)
TP Ludeman	9	17	1	461	85	28.81	935	49.30	0	4	3	53	3
(South Australia)

 

[djboonie]

Top 10 bowling

Most wickets
Player		Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
CJ Sayers	8	15	313.1	95	807	42	6/49	8/73	19.21	2.57	44.7	2	0
(South Australia)
LR Butterworth	9	16	295.4	98	751	41	6/49	10/89	18.31	2.54	43.2	4	1
(Tasmania)
JM Mennie	6	12	234.0	49	727	33	6/43	9/109	22.03	3.10	42.5	1	0
(South Australia)
JP Faulkner	8	14	208.2	53	600	28	5/23	6/70	21.42	2.88	44.6	1	0
(Tasmania)
CJ Gannon	6	12	221.2	68	606	28	6/53	8/78	21.64	2.73	47.4	1	0
(Queensland)
DE Bollinger	9	17	253.2	64	765	28	4/31	8/108	27.32	3.01	54.2	0	0
(New South Wales)
JM Bird	6	10	173.5	32	555	27	6/25	8/86	20.55	3.19	38.6	1	0
(Tasmania)
TA Copeland	7	14	281.0	86	714	27	4/56	6/111	26.44	2.54	62.4	0	0
(New South Wales)
JW Hastings	7	14	195.0	45	572	26	5/30	7/87	22.00	2.93	45.0	2	0
(Victoria)
MG Hogan	8	13	269.3	83	673	26	5/40	6/79	25.88	2.49	62.1	1	0
(Western Australia)

 

[Brishawk]

I dunno, I don;t really pay huge attention to Warney.

Probably a good policy. I saw a headline today with Warne telling selectors to loosen up.

 

[Henry Jr]

Pattison just blowing smoke up the selectors ass. Don't know why. He's missing this test anyway and he's only suspended for a single test so he's back for the fourth.

If your going to suck up to those in charge Patto, atleast aim to get something out of it mate.