Human Movement The early Homo Sapiens

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Total Power

Total Power

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So this thread is about discussing the first homo sapiens, who left Africa about 100,000 years ago to Asia. But new discovery points to human activity about 130,000 years ago in North America? How did these people cross the Atlantic? how did they survive the harsh weather in Russia and then Alaska? according to the paths (as traced by scientists), that's a fairly difficult route to take via Alaska.

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-an...an-activity-in-the-americas-130000-years-ago/

Each and every scientific discovery sends a small ripple through academia – it changes what we know about the world around us in a fundamental but usually quite subtle way. A breathtaking new study in Nature, however, is more of a tidal wave, a revolution in the way we understand the story of humanity.

The general consensus has been that humans arrived in North America no later than 24,000 years ago, at the earliest. A startling archaeological discovery of ancient human activity in California, however, has moved this date back to 131,000 years, and in the process has rewritten the history books.
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content-1493207796-super-map-of-chris.jpg




The mainstream view of early humans is changing all the time.
 

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Its being said there was a land bridge between Russia and Alaska. But that was at 24,000ya. Most major continental shift is over millions of years iirc

Though there is some speculation that there was also sea-going immigration, following the Aleutian Island chain . This saves the need to find the land fertile land valley into Northern Canada and through to America.

Some of these sea-goers are said to have been the 1st South Americans
 
Amazing stuff.

There are a number of other possibilities i guess - early humans reached the Americas, lived for a while but died out during or before the last ice age. Or it could have been the first wave of what were to become American natives following the end of the last ice age finding a frozen mastadon just thawing out of the ice. Would have feed them for weeks. There are cases of mammoths being found frozen in Sibera that are thousands of years buried and frozen. Could have been something like that.
 
Admiral Byng said:
Amazing stuff.

There are a number of other possibilities i guess - early humans reached the Americas, lived for a while but died out during or before the last ice age. Or it could have been the first wave of what were to become American natives following the end of the last ice age finding a frozen mastadon just thawing out of the ice. Would have feed them for weeks. There are cases of mammoths being found frozen in Sibera that are thousands of years buried and frozen. Could have been something like that.
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I have travelled through Siberia during summer and i can tell you at night the temperature reached Zero. I cannot even imagine what it would be like during winter. Somehow early humans or neanderthals travelling through that terrain for thousands of miles without clothes doesn't sit well with me. I mean you will die to hypothermia even during summer if you are not careful. There's been plenty of cases of tourists getting sick of hypothermia in summer.

Could it be that they could have managed to build a raft of some kind? even if that is the case they wouldnt be able to take enough food and water to survive.
 
"Russia and Alaska are divided by the Bering Strait, which is about 55 miles at its narrowest point. In the middle of the Bering Strait are two small, sparsely populated islands: Big Diomede, which sits in Russian territory, and Little Diomede, which is part of the United States."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...09/can_you_really_see_russia_from_alaska.html

Above map is altered to make a point I think.
 
Total Power said:
So this thread is about discussing the first homo sapiens, who left Africa about 100,000 years ago to Asia. But new discovery points to human activity about 130,000 years ago in North America? How did these people cross the Atlantic? how did they survive the harsh weather in Russia and then Alaska? according to the paths (as traced by scientists), that's a fairly difficult route to take via Alaska.

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-an...an-activity-in-the-americas-130000-years-ago/



content-1493207796-super-map-of-chris.jpg




The mainstream view of early humans is changing all the time.
Click to expand...

Very interesting isn't it? The evidence for the 130,000 year date for the arrivals in the Americas is not yet conclusive, as it's based on smashed mastodon bones without, as far as I know any actual direct evidence of human involvement. There are some big rocks associated with the site which the authors speculate were used to clobber the bones. It's still very speculative. There are, as always, a few possibilities. Perhaps it was an early H. sapien who left far earlier than current evidence suggests. If it was, why didn't they conquer the continent quickly as the aboriginal ancestors did in Australia? Slight digression, there is good genetic evidence the ancestors of aboriginal left Africa about 70,000 years ago, and made it to Australia around 55-60,000 years ago and spread rapidly around the continent in the next 5000 years or so. Why didn't the 130,000 year old American H. sapiens do the same?

Second possibility is that it was an earlier group, such as Homo erectus, perhaps in too smaller numbers or lacking the wit to spread through the continent.

The third possibility is it could be an animal of some sort, there was some significant North American mega fauna which could be big enough to smash bones, perhaps the giant bears (Arctodus simus) picked up rocks and smashed bones.

The fourth possibility is it's just geological and the authors misreading the information, you know, like seeing Mother Theresa face in the whipped cream. Until there are definite evidence of humans being associated with the sight I think it will remain in the highly speculative basket.
 
GreyCrow said:
I wonder if these were where the Denisovans and Neanderthals originated from? An earlier out of Africa than we thought?
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I always wondered how the different human races were formed. Assuming homo sapiens moved out of Africa about 100,000 years ago, is there enough time to form all the different human races? Caucasian race only appeared a few thousand years ago, i wonder how did that happen?
 
Total Power said:
I always wondered how the different human races were formed. Assuming homo sapiens moved out of Africa about 100,000 years ago, is there enough time to form all the different human races? Caucasian race only appeared a few thousand years ago, i wonder how did that happen?
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Via some pretty narly natural selection (source: reading Dawkin's Greatest Show On Earth)
More seriously though, there was an experiment that ran 70 odd years that dealt with foxes and basically managed to drastically change their physical appearance over a few generations via selective breeding
In the right circumstances I could see it happening with humans
 

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Aeglos said:
Via some pretty narly natural selection (source: reading Dawkin's Greatest Show On Earth)
More seriously though, there was an experiment that ran 70 odd years that dealt with foxes and basically managed to drastically change their physical appearance over a few generations via selective breeding
In the right circumstances I could see it happening with humans
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True but they do have a shorter life span too, i mean mozzies change into new species all the time, but their life span is like a day or two. A fox on an average lives for 2-4 years.
 
Total Power said:
True but they do have a shorter life span too, i mean mozzies change into new species all the time, but their life span is like a day or two. A fox on an average lives for 2-4 years.
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In the shape of Human History 100,000 years is neither here nor there
 
In the 1840s a greyhound bitch (Fly) was bred with a bulldog to help with stamina and then the line was bred back only to greyhounds. By the 4th generation it looked just like any other greyhound. It really doesn't take many generations to breed traits in or out.

Half And Half:

Greyhound_Half_And_Half-big.jpg


Three generations later, Hysterics:

Greyhound_Hysterics-big.jpg
 
Aeglos said:
This was done in sub-30 generations (or the equivalent of 2000-2500 human years)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090610185526.htm
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The question being what conditions led to these changes? (for humans). You would assume if humans originated in Europe, caucasian race would come first due to weather conditions and considering homo neanderthailis lived in europe some 500,000 years ago and interbred with homo sapiens.
 
Total Power said:
So now early humans were born out of Europe apparently?

https://www.cnet.com/news/history-rewritten-with-europe-the-birthplace-of-mankind/
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I wouldn't get too excited about this one, the 'humans evolved in Europe headlines' is more about headlines than evidence and often these sorts of claims reflect nationalistic and sometimes racist bias. The Chinese for example, are always claiming human ancestors evolved in china and these claims have been found wanting. In this case, based on one jaw and one other tooth, which the authors have reanalysed using CT scan data which is suggestive of it having dentition has features of a hominid. Sahelanthropus is is an extinct homininae species from Chad that has much better specimens and is dated to a similar time period of about 7 mya, close to the time of the chimpanzee–human divergence. Given the large amount specimens of older and younger species in our ancestoral tree come from Africa, I think it is more likely Greacopithicus represents a group that moved out of Africa, rather than suggesting human evolution became centred around the Mediterranean.

Added: Wikipedia has a list & pictures of known hominids and precursors in chronological order, which to me, reinforces strongly the 'out of Africa' story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_evolution_fossils
 
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ARES said:
Or this?

http://www.news.com.au/technology/s...t/news-story/2e60cbd7386573dd2a45c5cc9d79297d
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Interesting find. My only critique would be in the placement of the photos. I think somebody is using optical displacement.

0ea969118c91725b7d562c74e2ba2d44


Placing it between the 2 modern human footprints makes it seem similar when they ( to me ) are not
G the footprint found is closer to D and E in my opinion. ie Gorilla and Chimpanzee.

This is not to dispute the importance of the find, just the interpretation
 
GreyCrow said:
Interesting find. My only critique would be in the placement of the photos. I think somebody is using optical displacement.

0ea969118c91725b7d562c74e2ba2d44


Placing it between the 2 modern human footprints makes it seem similar when they ( to me ) are not
G the footprint found is closer to D and E in my opinion. ie Gorilla and Chimpanzee.

This is not to dispute the importance of the find, just the interpretation
Click to expand...

"The Trachilos prints have a big toe very similar to our own in size, shape and position. It has a distinct ball on its sole. It has the human-like sole. It doesn’t have claws."

No expert here but I can see toes together, no claws imprint, and a distinct ball.
The chimpanzee and gorilla have very short wide feet with big toe far apart from toes, claw imprints and no ball, ie flat
 
Very interesting find here

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...a-may-rewrite-the-origins-of-our-species/amp/

The origins of our species might need a rethink. An analysis of an ancient skull from China suggests it is eerily similar to the earliest known fossils of our species –found in Morocco, some 10,000 kilometres to the west. The skull hints that modern humans aren’t solely descended from African ancestors, as is generally thought.
 
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