Review The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

[Rear Admiral]

Now Jenkins will have to work a lot harder for his opportunity compared to last year where he was gifted a game.

If Jenkins learnt to kick straight, he may well keep his spot. Going on his (repeated) performances in 2013, he couldn't hit a barn door with a shotgun.

 

[Rear Admiral]

I was more referring to the over reaction from fans, rather than their support for the club. Ill admit I may have been a little angry myself at the complete knee jerk reaction from a lot on here, reading game day threads frustrate the **** out of me. Its like people are just looking for opportunities to point out how shit we are, but dont pay credit where due. But my point still stands regardless, its round 1, against Geelong, at Geelong in a milestone game. And yet we came so close. Yeah close enough isnt good enough, but I thought our attacking football looked very good at times when we didnt pissfart around with handballs and it was some of the most creative and free flowing football ive seen us play since 2012.

I personally think there were quite a number of positives to take out of this game despite the 4th. And its a piss poor excuse and im in no way using it to defend our club, but these things do happen in football. In some stupid way, I maybe think that we were lucky that it happened their in Geelong where they are practically unbeatable, and that we didnt get overrun like that in a game that is deemed winnable going into the first bounce. That would be a big no no.

I guess what im really trying to say, is getting overrun by a class outfit at their home ground during a champion's milestone game isnt the end of the world as some are making it out to be. We can still build from this and correct our mistakes considering its only round 1 still, which some seem to be forgetting. I would be seriously concerned and pissed off if it appeared that we had run out of legs even after this whole pre season hype. However, we still looked like we had plenty of run in our legs, we were just simply outclassed by a better team on the day. We conceded a few early goals in the 4th and threw all our eggs into one basket to try and wrestle back the lead. They were able to stop us still and then the flood gates opened.

I also think people need to reserve judgement a little more. The Showdown is going to be a cracking game and a real fierce contest. However given the high pressure atmosphere and both teams wanting to win sooo bad, I can see that being a real scrappy game and still not the best test to see where we are at. A great contested and 2 way running side like Sydney, at home, will be imo a much more accurate assessment of where we are really at and how good a side we really are. At the end of round 3 can nit pick the side to pieces for all I care.



I also think you'll find there is a stat floating around somewhere on this board and that ive read about in articles where crows actually won a decent amount of their 4th quarters in fact, and that this talk of us crumbling in the 4th isnt actually true. Like I said im not 100% sure however so dont quote me on it.

Very well put Peter J.
A far as the score board goes....no, it was not a great performance. I was particularly frustrated by our butter fingers fumbles, all game long - our hand skills were a disgrance. And the way we continually leak goals out the back - we seriously need to look into this issue, as it's anything but new. Like Sando said, they seem to get their goals easily, whereas we had to fight tooth and nail for every one of ours. And our tackling has just GOT to get better.
But as far as our overall performance and work ethic went, I thought we did damn well for a little over three Quarters. And as far as plain, ordinary running goes, that's the best I've seen in a long, long time. Not that our handball-run-and-carry paid off in the end, Sando just wanted to add another string to our bow, which is something I can fully appreciate. If you rely on this game-style, you have to run more mileage than if you kick the ball long. Boiling it right down, I think if we didn't fumble so damn badly, I reckon we could've pinched a win. And let's be honest - we have been crippled with injuries.

Against Port, we're gonna need our rocket skates on, cos they have some serious toe across the paddock. Any of our smaller/Midfield type blokes that dont have decent 100m times - they need to be dropped this week. Plain and simple.

 

[Mattrox]

If Pods turns out to be play badly over numerous games, then I'm willing to concede. But the fact that we lost TidBit, and Jenkins showed last year he continually shanks set shots repeatedly - bringing in J-Pod was a smart move. Jenkins works his guts out, has incredible pace....no offence, but he has zero lateral skills, doesn't have a natural football brain, and can't kick. Whereas J-Pod is a seriously talented Key Forward.
I'm more than willing to give J-Pod some time to settle his rusty hands.

JJ can kick. Something has changed from 2012.

He made some seriously good leads last year which resulted in behinds. He can damage offensively. If you treat him like a 20 year old developing kpf in his 3rd AFL season, then his development will continue.

kpfs get criticisms all the time about kicking accuracy etc. JJ is really no different. I'm hoping he can get this in the SANFL this year.

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk

 

[Tex200]

Very well put Peter J.
A far as the score board goes....no, it was not a great performance. I was particularly frustrated by our butter fingers fumbles, all game long - our hand skills were a disgrance. And the way we continually leak goals out the back - we seriously need to look into this issue, as it's anything but new. Like Sando said, they seem to get their goals easily, whereas we had to fight tooth and nail for every one of ours. And our tackling has just GOT to get better.
But as far as our overall performance and work ethic went, I thought we did damn well for a little over three Quarters. And as far as plain, ordinary running goes, that's the best I've seen in a long, long time. Not that our handball-run-and-carry paid off in the end, Sando just wanted to add another string to our bow, which is something I can fully appreciate. If you rely on this game-style, you have to run more mileage than if you kick the ball long. Boiling it right down, I think if we didn't fumble so damn badly, I reckon we could've pinched a win. And let's be honest - we have been crippled with injuries.

Against Port, we're gonna need our rocket skates on, cos they have some serious toe across the paddock. Any of our smaller/Midfield type blokes that dont have decent 100m times - they need to be dropped this week. Plain and simple.

We lost to the cats in the first 15 combined with the last 15 mins. In that time we were beaten 9 goals to nil. Rest of the game we win 12 - 9.

A similar lapse to Port will be fatal as well.

 

[King Elvis]

If Pods turns out to be play badly over numerous games, then I'm willing to concede. But the fact that we lost TidBit, and Jenkins showed last year he continually shanks set shots repeatedly - bringing in J-Pod was a smart move. Jenkins works his guts out, has incredible pace....no offence, but he has zero lateral skills, doesn't have a natural football brain, and can't kick. Whereas J-Pod is a seriously talented Key Forward.
I'm more than willing to give J-Pod some time to settle his rusty hands.

I don't disagree with you - but after almost playing a full season, the bulk of improvement from Jenkins isn't likely to happen in the SANFL.

If we think he has a future, we should play him.

 

[Mattrox]

I don't disagree with you - but after almost playing a full season, the bulk of improvement from Jenkins isn't likely to happen in the SANFL.

If we think he has a future, we should play him.

I think he isn't quite right coming back from injury. It will click soon. I'll bet he'll be pressing for selection really soon.

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk

 

[Rear Admiral]

JJ can kick. Something has changed from 2012.

He made some seriously good leads last year which resulted in behinds. He can damage offensively. If you treat him like a 20 year old developing kpf in his 3rd AFL season, then his development will continue.

kpfs get criticisms all the time about kicking accuracy etc. JJ is really no different. I'm hoping he can get this in the SANFL this year.

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk

I'm not sh1t-canning Jenkins outright, not at all.

But if you reckon he can kick straight, I can hardly remember where and when. I am not being sarcastic in the least.

He's made some seriously good leads? Has a great work ethic? Presented well? Absolutely. Could not agree more. BUT....if you're chosen as a Key Position Forward, the two most important things you need to be able to do is take contested marks and convert set shots. If you consistently fail in either of these two areas, then it doesn't matter one iota how hard you work, how many laps of the oval you do....you should either play down Back, or be dropped from the side. I just draw a line in the sand, that's pretty much the core of it.

Look at Lewis Johnston for a moment. Many apects of his game are sorely lacking, where I reckon Jenkins' work ethic leaves Johnston in his dust. Not to mention that LJ needs to put on some serious weight if he wants to hold a Key Positon up Forward. But the bottom line is that LJ can convert his set shots. Jenkins can't, and hasn't been able to for some time. I don't want to write off Jenkins at this stage, but I just think we've got better options if we're picking Key Forwards at the moment.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Johnston actually sort of reminds me of Walker in his first few years. Beautiful kick but lacking competitive spirit and a will to be physical. If we can get his contested game going, he could be a very damaging forward. As it stands though, he's a bit of a one trick pony and guys like that tend to have a limited shelf life at AFL level.

 

[Grenville]

I don't disagree with you - but after almost playing a full season, the bulk of improvement from Jenkins isn't likely to happen in the SANFL.

If we think he has a future, we should play him.

Confidence is what he can gain in the SANFL.
Didnt look great in the preseason, but that's understandable coming back from a pretty significant injury. Keep in mind he hasnt played a hell of a lot of footy in his career. I like the idea of giving him a game or two monstering SANFL defenders to remind him how good he can be.

 

[Tex200]

Johnston actually sort of reminds me of Walker in his first few years. Beautiful kick but lacking competitive spirit and a will to be physical. If we can get his contested game going, he could be a very damaging forward. As it stands though, he's a bit of a one trick pony and guys like that tend to have a limited shelf life at AFL level.

Good observation, they are indeed similar statistically. LJ has played 9 games of AFL football for a return of 15 goals.

In his first 9 games Tex was identical - 15 goals.

 

[King Elvis]

Confidence is what he can gain in the SANFL.
Didnt look great in the preseason, but that's understandable coming back from a pretty significant injury. Keep in mind he hasnt played a hell of a lot of footy in his career. I like the idea of giving him a game or two monstering SANFL defenders to remind him how good he can be.

Fair call, and one I'm not super uncomfortable with.

 

[Mattrox]

I'm not sh1t-canning Jenkins outright, not at all.

But if you reckon he can kick straight, I can hardly remember where and when. I am not being sarcastic in the least.

He's made some seriously good leads? Has a great work ethic? Presented well? Absolutely. Could not agree more. BUT....if you're chosen as a Key Position Forward, the two most important things you need to be able to do is take contested marks and convert set shots. If you consistently fail in either of these two areas, then it doesn't matter one iota how hard you work, how many laps of the oval you do....you should either play down Back, or be dropped from the side. I just draw a line in the sand, that's pretty much the core of it.

Look at Lewis Johnston for a moment. Many apects of his game are sorely lacking, where I reckon Jenkins' work ethic leaves Johnston in his dust. Not to mention that LJ needs to put on some serious weight if he wants to hold a Key Positon up Forward. But the bottom line is that LJ can convert his set shots. Jenkins can't, and hasn't been able to for some time. I don't want to write off Jenkins at this stage, but I just think we've got better options if we're picking Key Forwards at the moment.

Let's have a look at facts rather than selevtive memories.



This is Josh Jenkins 1st 2 years - 28 games.





This is Travis Cloke's 1st 2 years. - 30 games



For a forward learning the trade he is actually not too bad.
He does need AFL time this year, and he needs to work on his kicking. But there is a lot of upside.

 

[Tex200]

Let's have a look at facts rather than selevtive memories.



This is Josh Jenkins 1st 2 years - 28 games.

View attachment 48339



This is Travis Cloke's 1st 2 years. - 30 games
View attachment 48340


For a forward learning the trade he is actually not too bad.
He does need AFL time this year, and he needs to work on his kicking. But there is a lot of upside.

Absolutely - amazes me what people expect in terms of development - look at Johnston, guy's played 8 games !!!!!

 

[Slippery Pete]

Good observation, they are indeed similar statistically. LJ has played 9 games of AFL football for a return of 15 goals.

In his first 9 games Tex was identical - 15 goals.

Salient.

You could bump Tex threads from 2010 and 2011 and find some of the most ridiculous things written about him. No work ethic, won't make it, is a 6'4 crumbing forward (thanks Jack), who cares if we lose him to GWS......Tex's stats at the time stacked up to some of the all time greats at the same age, but not even this placated these mindless morons who thought he had "attitude problems."

Identical things now being written about Johnston.

LJ is no Tex, but there seems to be an inability on this forum to judge a guy's output on anything other than "oh, he doesnt look like he's putting in," "he looks lazy..."

Amatuerish, boneheaded analysis.

I don't give a shit if when he chases he looks like Keith Richards on the last leg of an 85-show tour.

We could use a few more Keith Richards' at our club anyway.

 

[King Elvis]

Long as he kicks goals, I don't give a shit.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Long as he kicks goals, I don't give a shit.

If he averages three goals a week, how many is that a year. 66?

When was the last time we had a player kick 66 goals?

I also haven't heard many of the usual suspects saying "It was only Geelong."

 

[Tex200]

If he averages three goals a week, how many is that a year. 66?

When was the last time we had a player kick 66 goals?

I also haven't heard many of the usual suspects saying "It was only Geelong."

I have a feeling that deep down in a dark place they will never admit to, the haters were very relieved when the MRP declared LJ had no case to answer from last weeks report.

 

[azza77]

And yet again im itching to see a side with LJ and Lynch playing next to Tex and a Ruck/Forward.

People keep complaining about the height issue.... Lynch is 191cm and as fit as a fiddle. Tex is 192cm and now chases like theres no tomorrow. LJ is 191cm and a dead eye dick. The only players we have over 195cm are Mckernan (196cm and very mobile) and Jenkins (198cm who we all know can run like the wind for a big man).

I mean for ****s sake Fremantle's midfield is taller than this proposed forward line and yet people brush off the idea without even giving it a second thought.

I reckon if LJ continues to work on his game and follows Tex in upping his defensive pressure, tackling and helping out the team in those periods he doesn't see the ball at all, it may well be possible.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Salient.

You could bump Tex threads from 2010 and 2011 and find some of the most ridiculous things written about him. No work ethic, won't make it, is a 6'4 crumbing forward (thanks Jack), who cares if we lose him to GWS......Tex's stats at the time stacked up to some of the all time greats at the same age, but not even this placated these mindless morons who thought he had "attitude problems."

Identical things now being written about Johnston.

LJ is no Tex, but there seems to be an inability on this forum to judge a guy's output on anything other than "oh, he doesnt look like he's putting in," "he looks lazy..."

Amatuerish, boneheaded analysis.

His lack of defensive pressure also cost us at least one goal directly though.

 

[Slippery Pete]

His lack of defensive pressure also cost us at least one goal directly though.

We can work on that stuff though. That can all be taught.

The stuff that LJ has naturally, you can't teach.

 

[PrideOf]

Johnston actually sort of reminds me of Walker in his first few years. Beautiful kick but lacking competitive spirit and a will to be physical. If we can get his contested game going, he could be a very damaging forward. As it stands though, he's a bit of a one trick pony and guys like that tend to have a limited shelf life at AFL level.

Good call, insightful call, better analysis than The Advertiser call.

Johnston is a footballer and at least we're not talking about whether or not he can kick. But **** me, he appears lazy or slow 90% of the time.

 

[Wood_Duck]

We can work on that stuff though. That can all be taught.

The stuff that LJ has naturally, you can't teach.

Neil would drop him.

 

[Bob Neil]

I'd be picking Johnston, McKernan and Jenkins all ahead of Podsiadly. I think at this stage of their careers they're actually better players than Pods and of course they have further upside to develop as opposed to Pods whose best is behind him. He really should be only a depth player on the list.

Until Tex returns I'd have Johnston at FF, McKernan in the FP and rotating with Jacobs, and Jenkins at CHF where his mobility and marking ability will be valuable.

 

[azza77]

I'm not sh1t-canning Jenkins outright, not at all.

But if you reckon he can kick straight, I can hardly remember where and when. I am not being sarcastic in the least.

He's made some seriously good leads? Has a great work ethic? Presented well? Absolutely. Could not agree more. BUT....if you're chosen as a Key Position Forward, the two most important things you need to be able to do is take contested marks and convert set shots. If you consistently fail in either of these two areas, then it doesn't matter one iota how hard you work, how many laps of the oval you do....you should either play down Back, or be dropped from the side. I just draw a line in the sand, that's pretty much the core of it.

Look at Lewis Johnston for a moment. Many apects of his game are sorely lacking, where I reckon Jenkins' work ethic leaves Johnston in his dust. Not to mention that LJ needs to put on some serious weight if he wants to hold a Key Positon up Forward. But the bottom line is that LJ can convert his set shots. Jenkins can't, and hasn't been able to for some time. I don't want to write off Jenkins at this stage, but I just think we've got better options if we're picking Key Forwards at the moment.

Why do people keep harping on about this? You cant remember the last time he could kicks straight hey? Did you watch any of the 2012 season at all?!? He went backwards massively in 2013 with his set shot kicking and seem to be muddling around with his technique that was so clean and simple in 2012.

He came out in the preseason this year and from the set shots he did have at goal he looked very good and had improved massively from what he was doing in 2013, looked more like the Jenkins of 2012.

As long as he keeps his head down and kicks through the footy as if he's kicking 50m every time, then he's a actually a reliable shot on goal. Yeah im no expert and it sounds so simple, but that just highlights how blind the club was to this problem and 'appeared' to do very little in regards to fixing this.

 

[Sanders]

Let's have a look at facts rather than selevtive memories.



This is Josh Jenkins 1st 2 years - 28 games.

View attachment 48339



This is Travis Cloke's 1st 2 years. - 30 games
View attachment 48340


For a forward learning the trade he is actually not too bad.
He does need AFL time this year, and he needs to work on his kicking. But there is a lot of upside.

Ok so what conclusions would you draw from that limited sample?

Should we be disappointed if we doesn't become as good as travis?