Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

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BrunoV said:
Play the arguments and facts, not the man.

I've given you something like 5 hard core left journalists I religiously follow.

I know I'm right because on this issue they are in heated agreement with the journalists on the right I follow.

That's the only way I can think to corroborate things without doing all the research myself (and it still requires a fair bit).

Infowars is like one of those drones that gets sent to outer space. There is sh*t all over the place and there is a lot of information which is difficult to process. The information is something you tend to appreciate retrospectively because most of what is reported is correct. Whether it is responsible journalism I cant say because I dont know what their sources are.
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You post some facts, not just narratives and I'll respond to them.

A drone sent to space only comes back with facts. It doesn't speculate about them or produce narratives. Just pictures and measurements.

That's the opposite of infowars. You can tell it's not responsible journalism because they themselves said explicitly in a court that it's not journalism and shouldn't be believed. When your source is telling everyone that it's not a credible source, that should be enough, no?
 
GUMBLETRON said:
There are two legs to this.

1) That the American political duopoloy has been hopelessly corrupted by corporate money over the past few decades. This driving voters against the status quo is entirely unsurprising.

2) That a con-man who openly engages in the very same grift while flirting with autocrats and autocracy and seeking to dismantle the checks and balances on which the democracy rests is an effective, let alone optimal response to 1. His policy incompetence is almost by the by.

It takes a strange credulity to accept both.
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The con-man has convinced the people that he's not doing the same grift, when he's just doing it more openly and obviously. It appears different and people don't want to see it because it goes beyond partisanship and into the strength of democracy itself. Plus the checks and balances have been exposed as not effective. The only question is will justice be served whenever he loses office, just like the majority of his senior campaign staff.

They need to show their democracy is at least partially alive by showing that the checks and balances catch up eventually. If he's not held to account at all, the next one will be a lot worse.

What's happening with the LNP at the moment isn't too different, hopefully the Federal ICAC is set up soon and has some teeth. The heads of ASIC, West Sydney Airport and various Ministers haven't done the GOvt many favours in convincing people that corruption isn't really a problem. Covid has been a welcome distraction for the Commonwealth.
 

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TheGrizz said:
This is going down to the wire...
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It will but in any normal year Trump has already won it.

The only state in dispute that Biden is currently up is Nevada which gives him another 6 votes and leaves him well short of the required 270.

Trump has comfortable leads in Wisconsin (10 votes), Michigan (16 votes)., Pensylvania (20 votes) and Georgia (16 votes).

There is a dispute in North Carolina (15 vote).

Interestingly there are enough technical glitches and attorneys general to suspend postal vote counting to prevent the races being called in Georgia and Pen. North C has just stopped counting for hours now.

Interestingly, this exact scenario was telegraphed months ago by the same people whose candidate was ahead by double digit margins in the polls.

I'll get accused of conspiracy theories but the accusers would have no difficulty accepting that Trump is stealing an election he is clearly up in and no one has any hesitation accepting that Republicans stole Florida in 2000.
 
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The Speaker said:
^what he said

Trump has won, as I told you he would.
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Since I posted that Arizona (11 votes) has closed substantially with Trump country still to be counted. Given the numbers and margins supposedly in issue, Arizona has been called prematurely. Word is North Carolina is done too (with 94% of the count complete).

If Trump wins Arizona, which he doesn't need, I think he ends up with the same number from 2016 which is a very heavy electoral college victory (if not the landslide I thought would occur).

If anyone believes that Trump can legitimately lose Pensylvania (in which he is ahead by 700,000 votes and almost 13 points with 64% of the vote counted) on the back of postal votes, and with substantial parts of his favourable counties uncounted, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
As it stands, with Arizona being called for Biden, the AP has not called the races in: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Georgia, Nevada, Alaska & Maine's 2nd congressional district, leaving the count 238 Biden to 213 Trump (source: PBS)

Pennsylvania, Michigan & Wisconsin were all previously known to be counting election day votes first (likely favorable to Trump) with absentee votes coming later (likely favorable to Biden), hence Trump's keenness to prevent the second part happening. So far no organization has seen fit to call those states for Trump on the strength of election day votes only. Georgia is increasingly up in the air, with it's count at one point delayed to a burst water pipe in the room where absentee votes were stored and some of the remaining votes to be counted in strong Democratic areas. Nevada and Alaska will likely be called to Biden and Trump respectively in the near future.

So basically, up in the air and no organization is saying otherwise at the moment
 

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I had a mate who is very much not a Trump fan raise the possibility of election rigging several weeks ago. I laughed at him as much as I'm laughing at anyone suggesting it now.

It would take a conspiracy larger than the moon landing to pull it off.
 
BrunoV said:
Keep believing that.

Then try to square it with the reason the rust belt turned on a political dynasty stretching back 30 years now.
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I will keep believing that, because it's true.
 
boncer34 said:
I had a mate who is very much not a Trump fan raise the possibility of election rigging several weeks ago. I laughed at him as much as I'm laughing at anyone suggesting it now.

It would take a conspiracy larger than the moon landing to pull it off.
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Not really. People (usually Democrats) have been indicted for election fraud (by the thousands of ballots) at every election. Because they have non-compulsory voting, politicised processes AND have each state in charge of their own counting, you only need to control things in a large city to get x number of ballots extra in the right states. Whether it's enough to turn states is another question, but to deny that it's possible is avoiding reality. The US has some of the worst election controls in the western world.
 
The Speaker said:
Not really. People (usually Democrats) have been indicted for election fraud (by the thousands of ballots) at every election. Because they have non-compulsory voting, politicised processes AND have each state in charge of their own counting, you only need to control things in a large city to get x number of ballots extra in the right states. Whether it's enough to turn states is another question, but to deny that it's possible is avoiding reality. The US has some of the worst election controls in the western world.
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I'll be honest challenging my "rigging the election is impossible because they'd get caught" by pointing out people have been caught rigging the election is an interesting strategy.
 
The Speaker said:
You do realise it's your precious working class that is turning on the Democrats, right? Because of people like you presenting the very attitude you're showing here?
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Oh sorry, I didn't realise that my opinion held so much weight with Americans. Am I not allowed to have an opinion that they're stupid for electing him?
 
boncer34 said:
I'll be honest challenging my "rigging the election is impossible because they'd get caught" by pointing out people have been caught rigging the election is an interesting strategy.
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If you want to think they catch 100% of it, go right ahead. They don't, and everyone knows it.

Democrats are ballot stuffers and Republicans are vote suppressors. That's just the way it goes.
 
Comedians across America will breathe a collective sigh of relief.
 
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