The missing ingredient...

[Weekly_spray]

As 2012 draws to an end, I often ponder why the pies didn't do as well as the last season. Was it that other teams closed the gap or the pies just had an "off" year. To be honest I think it was a bit of both but the real "missing ingredient" was a key inside midfielder, a real in and under player who would willingly throw his body on the line when it came to the stoppages. This player was obviously Luke Ball, but with his major ACL injury, midfield coach Robert Harvey has been on the search ever since. Yes, he has definitely experimented and has found a star midfielder with Dayne Beams, as his average statistics sky rocketed this year. I look at our team and I honestly believe that this is our major weakness at the moment and we can not pose a serious threat in the 2012 final series without a key inside player. Last Friday night against Hawthorn was a significant example, Mitchell gathered 12 clearances and Sewell another inside tough nut was also a key contributor. We lost the game in the middle as two key forwards kicked 10 goals between them which should be enough to win a game of football. Now, i do not doubt Swan's or Pendlebury's ability in the middle but they do not equivocate to Luke Ball. Luke is also 28 and may retire within the next couple of years, so should Collingwood be on the search for a "tough nut", "in and under" footballer or is this just an unnecessary worry. Players I consider inside midfielders would be for instance Joel Selwood, Josh Kennedy, Jobe Watson and Andrew Swallow, basically the contested clearance kings

 

[soreplums]

Add Leigh brown and Leon Davis

 

[Vicky Park]

This is my first post on this forum, but here goes. Missing ingredient? There are many. Pies lack hunger, desperation, confidence in each other, and quick decision making. And what has happened to the fans? In the Members at the MCG last Friday night we were outnumbered by Hawks fans. How does that happen at a Pies game, its not natural. We are subdued, the team is subdued. Passion and intensity go hand in hand - get it back boys.

 

[biggiemediums]

There's no ingredient missing. We have the ingredients. In my opinion the coaching staff just didn't cook it that well this year. We did well enough to get to the top 4 and there's life left, but you have to see that our whole coaching structure changed. We lost so many people. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if next year we get that dominance back. Imagine another pre season into Fasolo, Beams, Sidebottom. Imagine Pendlebury starting fresh and getting form back. Imagine Cloke (he will sign.) after all this contract crap is behind us. Buckley will have a whole season of coaching experience + he will have coached 2-4 finals games.

Imagine a full season of Krakeour & Ball. Hopefully we won't have 5+ reco's either.

 

[SprooseMoose]

While we've been out of form for a while and our game plan has been figured out for the most part, it also has to be said that just about everything that could have gone wrong for us has gone wrong this year - and we've still managed to finish top four.

In that light, I think that the only missing ingredients are real depth players that can successfully replace key players should they be injured again. Fortunately as our young guys get more experience and a better fitness base, this should largely right itself. Maybe some specialist recruitment/trading for players like Davis and L. Brown.

Game plan wise, you'd hope that after a top-four year together the new coaching group would be able to cook something up over the pre-season (if they haven't already) that will address the weaknesses exposed this year.

 

[Daicosssssssssss]

Add Leigh brown and Leon Davis

The above is true.

We also lack a bit of our defensive pressure in our forward line to keep the ball there.

 

[larrikan]

A bit like the Hawks last year when they were crippled with injuries they almost made the GF. We are in a similar position with players like Elliot, Buckley, Mooney, Paine and Sinclair thrown to the wolves. Brown and Clarke back after extended layoffs. Beams, Blair, Dawes, Cloke and others forced into new roles. New coaching panel with players out of these customary roles. Ross Lyon proved with a settled side it takes at least half a season to adopt a new game plan. I think the missing ingredient has been stability. Ball replaced Obree and I am sure if Josh Thomas isn't the man then Hine will be aware of not only Balls limited future but Jollys as well. All's well as you can't make changes mid season in this competition. Brilliant job this year regardless of where we finish. The future and foundation is strong.

 

[larrikan]

I would like to add even though this depth has been challenged, I still think a strong VFL team is a missing ingredient. Ever since we become a stand alone VFL team we have not been competitive. I know some see it only as a feeder team but Geelong still have a strong seconds. The winning culture should begin with them. I am not sure Lockyer, Brown, Rocca, Licuria and co. have been the answer recently. Love them all but something is not working with the VFL team as well as it could. If its just a development squad then the recruiting around them needs to be strengthened similar to the GWS plan - mature strong bodies playing alongside them. Just a thought.

 

[pinky951]

Hang on a sec, did I sleep for a week? I thought we were playing West Coast this weekend?

 

[Travis bloke]

What threw us off this year and it was evident...firstly injuries to key players as luke ball,krakouer (although great to have him back) Lachlan Keefe,Maccaffer...........These players would have been integral to our current team if they were all available we would be in an unbeatable position now haviing arest and watching the rest smash each other sensless.

The other very significant point is we have a team of second rate assistant coaches.Ben hart,Lappin,eade get rid of them only keep Harvey,this is integral to us moving forward.
We would be in an enviable role now if we had Sanderson and Scott Burns but not to be .

Buckley has to find another 2 good assistants.....I would try and lure Cameron Ling and Bassett from Adelaide next year.

 

[Travis bloke]

Add Leigh brown and Leon Davis

No lee Brown served his purpose but leon Davis was not and never will be a strong finals player as he has proved he plays with the shackles off during the year but couldn't cut it come finals. We can cover both if we recruit smarthly this year

 

[Knightmare]

Barry Hall, Brad Ottens and Leon Davis would all be handy.

 

[Travis bloke]

You see as soon as Malthouse gets another gig he wants high calibre ex players as asistants Roberty Wiley, Glen Jacovich,and he is trying to lure Cameron Ling but i don't think ling will go.but just to give you examples of what i mean a strong group of good assistants helps mopuld the team into a good cohesive unit.

 

[Travis bloke]

Barry Hall, Brad Ottens and Leon Davis would all be handy.

Possibly.......look at the top 4 sides and assisatnts they have i would try and pinch say someone like Dew and Leigh Tudor from Sydney.Tudor is a graet assisatnt he helped the cats win the those flags with Sanderson and CO and look how Sydney have turned out.

 

[Knightmare]

Possibly.......look at the top 4 sides and assisatnts they have i would try and pinch say someone like Dew and Leigh Tudor from Sydney.Tudor is a graet assisatnt he helped the cats win the those flags with Sanderson and CO and look how Sydney have turned out.

Not wrong. Our assistant coaching group with Buckley taking over from Mick, no Mick then Neeld and Watters taking over senior positions was always going to be difficult.

Quailty coaching always helps and it is probably that other missing ingredient. The more high level coaching staff the better.

 

[skinnyjim]

Kick outs have gone to shit completely post Leon Davis which to my mind is a massive issue. No Luke Ball hurts big time around stoppages, and we don't have the overall attacking pressure we once did up forward. We miss Brown for the mongerel attitude as much as anything with no real hard arses left to intimidate the opposition. Also I agree that the coaching panel is made up of some pretty average operators, who have very little actual flag success between them. So it seems like a combination of different things. And because it is a combination of different things, like anything it will most likely take a long time to fix. And of course, we have a one champion ruckman with too much on his plate and a permanently sore body.

 

[Yonchi]

Can people please stop talking about how great Leon Davis was? He played in 4 embarrassing grand finals and was a non contributor against the likes of Geelong, St Kilda and Hawthorn (2011). Did he ever play a good game against a top team? Davis was the type of player you love to have against the bottom 12-14 sides in the comp. He kicked out well last year until the prelim

 

[Yonchi]

And as far as missing ingredients go, can Cloke learn to kick into the forward 50 in any other way than a long bomb? Toovey, Wellingham and Sinclair give the ball much too much height with their field kicking - this needs addressing.

 

[skinnyjim]

Can people please stop talking about how great Leon Davis was? He played in 4 embarrassing grand finals and was a non contributor against the likes of Geelong, St Kilda and Hawthorn (2011). Did he ever play a good game against a top team? Davis was the type of player you love to have against the bottom 12-14 sides in the comp. He kicked out well last year until the prelim

Fair comment, he was poor in finals. But he was a gun back there, and played a massive role last year in getting us to the finals even if he did play poorly afterwards. He can't be blamed for our GF loss. But anyway, it's ancient history now. We would definitely be more of a threat with a bona fide kick out specialist down back though.

 

[Beary17]

Fair comment, he was poor in finals. But he was a gun back there, and played a massive role last year in getting us to the finals even if he did play poorly afterwards. He can't be blamed for our GF loss. But anyway, it's ancient history now. We would definitely be more of a threat with a bona fide kick out specialist down back though.

exactly, he's gone and he aint coming back.
we can talk about what he NEED which is fine, bringing up past players as a need is a useless discussion.

on that note, am I the only one that didnt rate Leigh Brown? Dont get me wrong, he had a role to play and we need someone to fill said role, but I dont think he played it terribly well himself. Gave away too many frees and didnt have enough of an impact on the ball. Dont get me wrong, love him for being a permiership player, but I find it hard to believe he's the player we're missing. Dawes plays the role better even when he's not getting much of it.

 

[skinnyjim]

exactly, he's gone and he aint coming back.
we can talk about what he NEED which is fine, bringing up past players as a need is a useless discussion.

on that note, am I the only one that didnt rate Leigh Brown? Dont get me wrong, he had a role to play and we need someone to fill said role, but I dont think he played it terribly well himself. Gave away too many frees and didnt have enough of an impact on the ball. Dont get me wrong, love him for being a permiership player, but I find it hard to believe he's....

Contradictory. This discussion related to who we need.

 

[Beary17]

Yeah and posters are listing plays we used to have, and I said there's no point mentioning them as a need.
And had an opinion on one...

 

[emmjay1990]

What threw us off this year and it was evident...firstly injuries to key players as luke ball,krakouer (although great to have him back) Lachlan Keefe,Maccaffer...........These players would have been integral to our current team if they were all available we would be in an unbeatable position now haviing arest and watching the rest smash each other sensless.

The other very significant point is we have a team of second rate assistant coaches.Ben hart,Lappin,eade get rid of them only keep Harvey,this is integral to us moving forward.
We would be in an enviable role now if we had Sanderson and Scott Burns but not to be .

Buckley has to find another 2 good assistants.....I would try and lure Cameron Ling and Bassett from Adelaide next year.

Cameron Ling, good call. Very good call.