The Only Player We Should Target..........

[beaver fever]

its all about options dude. We have for to long settled on one option.

Newman, Bowden, Raines, Connors, Tambling, White, Moore, Casserly, JON.

Yes we certainly needed more options on the HBF and wing

Why is it we need more options in HBF/wing, but not for the inside midfield, ruck, KPP positions?

 

[CoggaRules]

Newman, Bowden, Raines, Connors, Tambling, White, Moore, Casserly, JON.

Yes we certainly needed more options on the HBF and wing

Why is it we need more options in HBF/wing, but not for the inside midfield, ruck, KPP positions?

man, you need a reality check big time.
This is why you suggest we dont need options? FFS, stop boring me with your stupidity.

 

[beaver fever]

man, you need a reality check big time.
This is why you suggest we dont need options? FFS, stop boring me with your stupidity.

The point is we have much more pressing needs then soft outside hacks on the HBF. Stop boring me with your fatuousness.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Everyone is placing so much value on draft picks as late as early 4th round... but recent history tells us that richmond generally does not recruit well, or seems to not be able to develop players, in the pick 30-50 region (late 2nd-early 4th round picks). On the other hand, later/rookie picks often go on to bigger and better things than their more fancied teamates.

2000
30-50: hyde, krakouer
Later: newman
2001
30-50: Rodan
2002
30-50: Fleming, Nicholls
Later: kelvin moore
2003
30-50: Roach, jackson
Later: tuck, raines, foley
2004
30-50: mcguane
Later: Will Thursfield
2005
30-50: casserley
Later: white, graham, howat
2006
30-50: - (learnt our lesson???)
Later: connors, collins, king
2007
30-50: - (learnt our lesson???)
Later: putt, gourdis, collard

So basically, my argument is that a pick in the 30-50 range is USELESS. If we can get, for example, a mitch morton, or this year a warnock, or whoever...do it.

In fact, if we have 2 in that cursed range...trade them both for a player. 9 players in 8 years from picks in the 30-50 range and ALL of them fringe players or less. Meanwhile we have 9 best 22 players from later picks.

Simply put...rookie picks and psd picks are worth more to us because you get a chance to look closer at these guys. You get to judge more than just talent, you have time to really judge a guys character.

Trade all picks in the 30-50 region for WHOEVER we can get that fills a need. This year there should be some bargains because everyone wants a go at one of the last untainted drafts. We should get heavily involved this year. Warnock, Skipper, Cousins, Prismall, Kerr, Mundy...all should be on our radar.

 

[IDGAF]

Everyone is placing so much value on draft picks as late as early 4th round... but recent history tells us that richmond generally does not recruit well, or seems to not be able to develop players, in the pick 30-50 region (late 2nd-early 4th round picks). On the other hand, later/rookie picks often go on to bigger and better things than their more fancied teamates.

2000
30-50: hyde, krakouer
Later: newman
2001
30-50: Rodan
2002
30-50: Fleming, Nicholls
Later: kelvin moore
2003
30-50: Roach, jackson
Later: tuck, raines, foley
2004
30-50: mcguane
Later: Will Thursfield
2005
30-50: casserley
Later: white, graham, howat
2006
30-50: - (learnt our lesson???)
Later: connors, collins, king
2007
30-50: - (learnt our lesson???)
Later: putt, gourdis, collard

So basically, my argument is that a pick in the 30-50 range is USELESS. If we can get, for example, a mitch morton, or this year a warnock, or whoever...do it.

In fact, if we have 2 in that cursed range...trade them both for a player. 9 players in 8 years from picks in the 30-50 range and ALL of them fringe players or less. Meanwhile we have 9 best 22 players from later picks.

Simply put...rookie picks and psd picks are worth more to us because you get a chance to look closer at these guys. You get to judge more than just talent, you have time to really judge a guys character.

Trade all picks in the 30-50 region for WHOEVER we can get that fills a need. This year there should be some bargains because everyone wants a go at one of the last untainted drafts. We should get heavily involved this year. Warnock, Skipper, Cousins, Prismall, Kerr, Mundy...all should be on our radar.

An interesting read Rancid ...

 

[beaver fever]

Can't agree Rancid. The fact we have not used the national draft properly is one of the reasons why the list is so bad. Now that we have a decent recruitment and list management team we need to embrace this draft more then ever. We should be maximising our picks, and getting rid of players that aren't up to it.

 

[IDGAF]

Can't agree Rancid. The fact we have not used the national draft properly is one of the reasons why the list is so bad. Now that we have a decent recruitment and list management team we need to embrace this draft more then ever. We should be maximising our picks, and getting rid of players that aren't up to it.

How can you not agree with the very plain and simple facts that he outlined

i agree that we have recruited terribly in the last 5 years , Tambling , Meyer and JON are at the forefront of that , but the theory of utlising the rookie draft is a very sound one and has been about our only success story when it comes to recruiting

Fact is i totally agree with RB , i would rather use all our rookie spots rather than locking ourselves into a long term project by drafting someone at pick 48 or the like ... "try before you buy"

When you look at the likes of Foley and Thursfield you can see that the proof is in the pudding .

Miller should be stripped of any responsibilty when it comes to drafting kids , he has been a disaster in that area ... don`t mind his wheeling and dealing come trade week , no dramas at all there , but leave the talent spotting to others

 

[Bojangles17]

How can you not agree with the very plain and simple facts that he outlined

i agree that we have recruited terribly in the last 5 years , Tambling , Meyer and JON are at the forefront of that ,

a little unfair...no doubt we #$@!@ the 2004 draft in wasting the trade for Ottens on Meyer and Patto...However since then which co-incides with Francis jacksons involvement our returns from the draft compare pretty well with anyone elses

 

[IDGAF]

a little unfair...no doubt we #$@!@ the 2004 draft in wasting the trade for Ottens on Meyer and Patto...However since then which co-incides with Francis jacksons involvement our returns from the draft compare pretty well with anyone elses

JON is the worst of the lot pal , agreed it has gotten better since then but we stuffed a real opportunity before that

 

[beaver fever]

How can you not agree with the very plain and simple facts that he outlined

I disagreed concerning trading our picks for players. Not something hard to figure out is it?

i agree that we have recruited terribly in the last 5 years , Tambling , Meyer and JON are at the forefront of that , but the theory of utlising the rookie draft is a very sound one and has been about our only success story when it comes to recruiting

Fact is i totally agree with RB , i would rather use all our rookie spots rather than locking ourselves into a long term project by drafting someone at pick 48 or the like ... "try before you buy"

When you look at the likes of Foley and Thursfield you can see that the proof is in the pudding .

Miller should be stripped of any responsibilty when it comes to drafting kids , he has been a disaster in that area ... don`t mind his wheeling and dealing come trade week , no dramas at all there , but leave the talent spotting to others

I think we should be utilising the rookie draft as much as we do the national draft. Picks after 30 may become more and more speculative, but that is no excuse for trading picks. Our recruitment team should be able to identify the players, and while they haven't been very good at that recently, we now have invested quite a bit to rectify this.

If this club is going to get anywhere in this competition we need to maximise the national draft and not take the easy option and trade for other team's fringe players.

 

[IDGAF]

I disagreed concerning trading our picks for players. Not something hard to figure out is it?


I think we should be utilising the rookie draft as much as we do the national draft. Picks after 30 may become more and more speculative, but that is no excuse for trading picks. Our recruitment team should be able to identify the players, and while they haven't been very good at that recently, we now have invested quite a bit to rectify this.

If this club is going to get anywhere in this competition we need to maximise the national draft and not take the easy option and trade for other team's fringe players.

i was more looking at the point raised in regards to the rookie draft . We have never been able to fully utilise the rookie draft due primarily to budgetry restraints ... i would rather take three rookies than have one pick inthe 40`s if it comes down to dollars and cents , but hopefully those days are behing us

Whilst i can see what TW is trying to do in bolstering our stocks in the age bracket of players from 22 - 27 ... ie: Polak and Mc Mahon ... i totally agree with picking up other clubs fringe deadwood , Whilst it would be harsh to say GP and JM are in that category , we are going into a phase in the next year or two when we will have enough established players to end this recruiting strategy for good.

... but i will say this ... i for one would rather take ben Cousins with pick 40 than draft a kid

 

[beaver fever]

i was more looking at the point raised in regards to the rookie draft . We have never been able to fully utilise the rookie draft due primarily to budgetry restraints ... i would rather take three rookies than have one pick inthe 40`s if it comes down to dollars and cents , but hopefully those days are behing us

Yeah we need to set up the rookie list to include 1-2 ruckman, 2 KPP and 1 midfielder all as developing youngsters. At the moment we have it as a stop gab measure for injuries.

... but i will say this ... i for one would rather take ben Cousins with pick 40 than draft a kid

Not me. I'd much rather get more youth into our list that address list problems.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Can't agree Rancid. The fact we have not used the national draft properly is one of the reasons why the list is so bad. Now that we have a decent recruitment and list management team we need to embrace this draft more then ever. We should be maximising our picks, and getting rid of players that aren't up to it.

This is very poor logic. We have to play the market. This year...picks are overvalued and current players will be heavily undervalued. Therefore we should hold onto hughes, white, etc (all our players who may have trade value) delist tivendale, hyde, pettifer and co, and use our rookies, psd, late picks in the national to fill their places. With the extra cap space, we should trade our middle range 30-50 picks for solid current players who in any other year would be worth a late first, early 2nd rounder. We could also be bold and trade our first pick for a star like kerr who still has age on his side or possibly lure someone through the psd.

Nowadays, with professional scouting staff and heavy media coverage of U18 carnivals, a potential star young player rarely slips below pick 30. In fact, all you could really hope for is one of two things between 30 and 50...a prospect player (who could star or do nothing) or a ready made fringe player (50-100 gamer). You can get both of these types of players as late as the rookie draft, and often they are more determined.

 

[IDGAF]

Not me. I'd much rather get more youth into our list that address list problems.

i just think its about chemistry ... Throw Cousins in for 3 or so years with Cothin Foley and Delidio and all of a sudden its a seriously classy outfit .

If Tambling had come on as we all thought he would i might have a different POV regarding Cousins but Tambling has all but shown me to say he is never going to be a solid mid-fielder at the elite level

 

[beaver fever]

This is very poor logic. We have to play the market. This year...picks are overvalued and current players will be heavily undervalued. Therefore we should hold onto hughes, white, etc (all our players who may have trade value) delist tivendale, hyde, pettifer and co, and use our rookies, psd, late picks in the national to fill their places. With the extra cap space, we should trade our middle range 30-50 picks for solid current players who in any other year would be worth a late first, early 2nd rounder. We could also be bold and trade our first pick for a star like kerr who still has age on his side or possibly lure someone through the psd.

Well your logic certainly hasn't worked for us in the past. The RFC has for too long held onto players that are just not up to it. List management should be a process of bringing in new players, and then sorting through those that are good enough and delisting those that are not. Players like Schulz, Krakouer, Hyde, Tivendale, etc should never have been given so much time on our list. Bringing in opposition fringe players has also backfired many times.

Trading our 1st round for Kerr is just plain stupid. We are no where near a premiership and by the time we are, if at all, kerr will be too old. I'd much rather draft a Michael Hurley who is already bigger then all of our defenders and would take FB for 10 years, or a Hamish Hartlett to combine with Foley, Deledio and Cotchin.

What solid players could we possibly get with our 3rd and 4th round picks pray tell?

Nowadays, with professional scouting staff and heavy media coverage of U18 carnivals, a potential star young player rarely slips below pick 30. In fact, all you could really hope for is one of two things between 30 and 50...a prospect player (who could star or do nothing) or a ready made fringe player (50-100 gamer). You can get both of these types of players as late as the rookie draft, and often they are more determined.

We don't need to get a star with these picks. We need to address list deficiencies with them. Same with the rookie draft, which should only have young players in it. Sure you are probably going to have many that don't turn out, but the process should ensure we find enough.

 

[santa claws]

Whenever Simmo has a good game, we also lose.

Whenever Sandilands dominates a game, Freo still lose.

When Sandilands has a poor game, Freo still win.

It doesn't seem to be the difference of say Gary Ablett having a good game compared to him having a poor game (big factor).

i think you are wrong. your freo analogy shows freo have shit onballers mids. just because they dont have the players capable of capitalising on good ruckwork does it mean you dont need good ruckmen.
in the main it is well balanced teams that win premierships.
imo fremantle have an excellent spine and good depth with their talls. it your mcmanuses blacks farmers carrs bells peakes headlands etc that are freos weakness.

 

[chrisjie]

Yet Freo are #1 in hitouts and are even worse than us

Ruckmen are overrated.

Patto tapping the ball down to Cotchin is better than a Kreuzer tapping the ball down to a Tuck.

Don't you agree?

So keep the 2nd rounder we'd have to pay, use it on a mid.

Rucks don't win you games, they barely have an influence. Not worth the cost, especialy in an auction like Warnock.


I am HAPPY to be 16th in hitouts as it is a completely useless, meaningless stat that has no impact on the game.

It's about as useful as our song being #1 in the competition helping us win games.

You should coach St Kilda.

 

[Bojangles17]

JON is the worst of the lot pal , agreed it has gotten better since then but we stuffed a real opportunity before that

yeah he wasnt good ,and I know it is cold comfort but it was an ordinary draft when you consider the players taken around him in Dowler before and Varcoe immediately after, there's NO-ONE that you think, @#$!#$, IF ONLY...In my mind not capitalising on 5 picks in top 20 in 2004 seriously set us back 12 months. without going down a road well trodden, in reality we yielded one elite player with a couple of likely 100-150 game players, I'll leave you to put the pieces together

 

[santa claws]

Well your logic certainly hasn't worked for us in the past. The RFC has for too long held onto players that are just not up to it. List management should be a process of bringing in new players, and then sorting through those that are good enough and delisting those that are not. Players like Schulz, Krakouer, Hyde, Tivendale, etc should never have been given so much time on our list. Bringing in opposition fringe players has also backfired many times.

Trading our 1st round for Kerr is just plain stupid. We are no where near a premiership and by the time we are, if at all, kerr will be too old. I'd much rather draft a Michael Hurley who is already bigger then all of our defenders and would take FB for 10 years, or a Hamish Hartlett to combine with Foley, Deledio and Cotchin.

What solid players could we possibly get with our 3rd and 4th round picks pray tell?


We don't need to get a star with these picks. We need to address list deficiencies with them. Same with the rookie draft, which should only have young players in it. Sure you are probably going to have many that don't turn out, but the process should ensure we find enough.

here here totally agree.with everything.

 

[Peter SasseGum]

Can't agree Rancid. The fact we have not used the national draft properly is one of the reasons why the list is so bad. Now that we have a decent recruitment and list management team we need to embrace this draft more then ever. We should be maximising our picks, and getting rid of players that aren't up to it.

Why is the list so bad? How have we not used the draft properly?

We selected the best available players with the picks we had.
Other picks look better because their teams are travelling better on the field.

I wonder how Franklin would go in a struggliong side...

The list now is probably in the best shape it's been in 10 years. It has a mix of quality kids, strong senior stars, and a rapidly developing mid tier of serviceable players.

All beacuse of the pruning and shaping performed under the attentive eye of Terry Wallace.

Well done to TW and the recruiting staff for injecting quality players into our team, while letting go of the members who had contributed all they could to the RFC