(The Other) Mark Williams

[3rdManUp]

Questions need to be asked. The forward set up is a shamble. Bomb long to the pack just isn't a viable strategy. I don't need to labour this point, just look at the statistics for the amount of time spent in the forward 50 compared to score conversion. And what the hell is going on with the set shots?! There are so many cogs not in place compared to the rest of the outfit that leaves me to consider what the hell is Mark Williams doing (not the Chocco variety). Incompetent or not?

 

[Harmichael]

Our decoys either don't seem to work hard enough(A.Edwards) or simply aren't good enough (McGoof)for the opposition to bother with them, Vickery still looks like he still has a little way to go to recapture his 2011 form to me at and our mids still only have eyes for Jack.

Like to see Elton get a run at it and Griffiths should at least swing up there occassionally.(Where he belongs IMO)Would also like to see Deledio, Cotchin & especially Martin rotating/resting in the forward line more often too.

 

[Stylo]

Yeah it's a bit concerning. Who was our forward coach in 2011? Presumably not Williams?

 

[tunksy]

Yeah it's a bit concerning. Who was our forward coach in 2011? Presumably not Williams?

daly.

not sold on williams yet either has a fair bit of work to do in order to sot out this forward line. hopefully it's all a ruse and we'll surprise a few teams with how we actually set up round 1. i can hope.

 

[Madison]

It is frustrating, and a bit of a concern. But there is no doubt it's being looked at every day.

Midfielders need to lower their eyes and look for options that aren't Jack.

As someone who has just recently started playing (not even, just pre season) footy after recovering from a shoulder reco I can tell you Vickery would have been nervous and it will take time for him to get his confidence back. Just putting your arms above your head is scary in the beginning, let alone having the confidence to go for marks with someone on your tail who is going to hit your body. And that will make things easier on Jack, and might make a lot of the other pieces fall together.

 

[Bojangles17]

Its not a coaching thing , we lack the material right at the mo and need to find the right mix. A edwards was always going to get every chance , they will quickly dry up as we turn those ops to Elton astbury or griff and TV returns to form, there were some good signs last night.

Early days , but still plenty of work to find the best mix, like last year we had plenty of supply for precious little result

 

[sante]

We need to give up on 3 talls. Just play Jack and Ty and the rest smalls/resting mids.

 

[3rdManUp]

It is frustrating, and a bit of a concern. But there is no doubt it's being looked at every day.

Midfielders need to lower their eyes and look for options that aren't Jack.

As someone who has just recently started playing (not even, just pre season) footy after recovering from a shoulder reco I can tell you Vickery would have been nervous and it will take time for him to get his confidence back. Just putting your arms above your head is scary in the beginning, let alone having the confidence to go for marks with someone on your tail who is going to hit your body. And that will make things easier on Jack, and might make a lot of the other pieces fall together.

I totally agree RE: Vickery and not concerned about him at all, just needs to blow the cobwebs out and get some mojo which is what NAB is good for. I don't think it's even that much of a player issue. We have the talent to slot it through the goals for the amount of time that we lock it into the F50.

My concern is with what the players are being asked to do. The structures are bad, or good in theory but just not translating on field. Set shots are putrid and it's not just one player- it's ALL of them. 1 or 2 then it's a player fault. Half the team and I think that some of that has to land on the forward coach.

Also, this extreme selfless style has to stop. It's actually becoming detrimental. Forwards need to be hungry, aggressive and attack the goals. I see them pick up the ball and line for the posts before second guessing themselves and giving it off (against their instincts) because they want to be seen as doing the unselfish thing. If you're under pressure or on an ugly angle, then sure. If your team mate is in a blatantly open and better position, then great. But other than that, they should be told to back themselves and do their job.

 

[Bojangles17]

We need to give up on 3 talls. Just play Jack and Ty and the rest smalls/resting mids.

Yes and no, a edwards form shouldnt be the decider, maybe he cant play

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The issue with our forward line was captured in one instance last night , where Jack hit heads with Frawley . Edwards led sidewards whilst Jack and Vickery where leading up , jack noticed it was Edwards ball and went to pull out while Vickery just continued on and crashed into Jack , bringing his man to the contest .
Similar has happened often in the last two years and leads to 4 on 3 in the oppositions favour .
We don't have a forward who leads up beyond 3o-40 Metres .
We need Griffiths to play that role , him taking marks and slotting them from 50-60 Metres would destroy oppositions and force them to be more accountable and open the whole forward line .

 

[Madison]

I totally agree RE: Vickery and not concerned about him at all, just needs to blow the cobwebs out and get some mojo which is what NAB is good for. I don't think it's even that much of a player issue. We have the talent to slot it through the goals for the amount of time that we lock it into the F50.

My concern is with what the players are being asked to do. The structures are bad, or good in theory but just not translating on field. Set shots are putrid and it's not just one player- it's ALL of them. 1 or 2 then it's a player fault. Half the team and I think that some of that has to land on the forward coach.

Also, this extreme selfless style has to stop. It's actually becoming detrimental. Forwards need to be hungry, aggressive and attack the goals. I see them pick up the ball and line for the posts before second guessing themselves and giving it off (against their instincts) because they want to be seen as doing the unselfish thing. If you're under pressure or on an ugly angle, then sure. If your team mate is in a blatantly open and better position, then great. But other than that, they should be told to back themselves and do their job.

I agree, and I haven't had a chance to watch last night's game so I can't comment on that but I know last year it was all about being able to keep it in the forward line if we didn't take a mark I50. I agree we need to get better with our decision making but I think they are trying to avoid gettintg kicks intercepted and coming back with interest the other way.

Not saying I agree but I think that is the theory. I don't mind it, but it needs to be balanced more with attacking into our 50 because we are getting the ball in there too much to be losing games.

 

[Bojangles17]

Yea I'm pissed griff hasn't been tried forward

 

[Grockadoc]

Things seem to have gone downhill since Daly was relieved of Forward Coaching duties. Our structures turned to crap, and our goal kicking has become woeful. We went from one of the best accuracy teams under Daly, to one of the worst under Williams. You can't say that it is all the players fault.

 

[tunksy]

It is frustrating, and a bit of a concern. But there is no doubt it's being looked at every day.

Midfielders need to lower their eyes and look for options that aren't Jack.

As someone who has just recently started playing (not even, just pre season) footy after recovering from a shoulder reco I can tell you Vickery would have been nervous and it will take time for him to get his confidence back. Just putting your arms above your head is scary in the beginning, let alone having the confidence to go for marks with someone on your tail who is going to hit your body. And that will make things easier on Jack, and might make a lot of the other pieces fall together.

spot on with the shoulders, im in the same boat. my arm moves ever so slightly the wrong way above my head and I get a bit of pain. vickery will take time.

 

[tunksy]

Things seem to have gone downhill since Daly was relieved of Forward Coaching duties. Our structures turned to crap, and our goal kicking has become woeful. We went from one of the best accuracy teams under Daly, to one of the worst under Williams. You can't say that it is all the players fault.

im not even sure if the forward set up has changed too much either (it operates in much the same way with only slight changes from daly's). maybe we are slanted towards daly because having vickery helped jack so much. time will tell.

 

[Grockadoc]

spot on with the shoulders, im in the same boat. my arm moves ever so slightly the wrong way above my head and I get a bit of pain. vickery will take time.

Given the position Vickery plays (KPF/Ruck) A shoulder reco is the worst injury he could have.

 

[Tigerland]

I have concerns about our forward line and Coach but I'll reserve my judgement.

I thought Ty was pretty good last night without being great.

Throw in Jake King to our forward setup and I reckon some of our opponents will be under a hell of a lot of pressure.

 

[Mr Magic]

The issue with our forward line was captured in one instance last night , where Jack hit heads with Frawley . Edwards led sidewards whilst Jack and Vickery where leading up , jack noticed it was Edwards ball and went to pull out while Vickery just continued on and crashed into Jack , bringing his man to the contest .
Similar has happened often in the last two years and leads to 4 on 3 in the oppositions favour .
We don't have a forward who leads up beyond 3o-40 Metres .
We need Griffiths to play that role , him taking marks and slotting them from 50-60 Metres would destroy oppositions and force them to be more accountable and open the whole forward line .

I like Griff at half forward with his long kicking but he seems more mobile than I used to think he was.

It is hard , atm I am liking, into the future, Elton FF, Griff half forward and JR deep third tall from the pocket but I know most don't see it this way

It will be interesting to see how Elton has come along though. I used to think he could be a bit like a S Beasely but he could also maybe a bit like M Roach,(not sure if he can get up on opposition shoulders like Roachy though

I always thought of Ty as your Ruck/forward and nothing has happened which has swayed me from that. He really needs to develop mass and strength in his frame though particularly his legs and core IMO!!

 

[WATIGE]

I have concerns about our forward line and Coach but I'll reserve my judgement.

I thought Ty was pretty good last night without being great.

Throw in Jake King to our forward setup and I reckon some of our opponents will be under a hell of a lot of pressure.

I actually wonder if Jake missing isn't a major part of it - he's the onfield forward coach and gets things setup better.

 

[Rayzorwire]

We're a better forwardline with him in, WA, that's for sure.

I probably should end my thoughts about this topic there.

 

[cairo tiger]

giving ty 2 or so more tries at it- never been sold on him but he needs a chance or 2- not sure why griff is not being considered there

 

[sregit]

I totally agree RE: Vickery and not concerned about him at all, just needs to blow the cobwebs out and get some mojo which is what NAB is good for. I don't think it's even that much of a player issue. We have the talent to slot it through the goals for the amount of time that we lock it into the F50.

My concern is with what the players are being asked to do. The structures are bad, or good in theory but just not translating on field. Set shots are putrid and it's not just one player- it's ALL of them. 1 or 2 then it's a player fault. Half the team and I think that some of that has to land on the forward coach.

Also, this extreme selfless style has to stop. It's actually becoming detrimental. Forwards need to be hungry, aggressive and attack the goals. I see them pick up the ball and line for the posts before second guessing themselves and giving it off (against their instincts) because they want to be seen as doing the unselfish thing. If you're under pressure or on an ugly angle, then sure. If your team mate is in a blatantly open and better position, then great. But other than that, they should be told to back themselves and do their job.

Your right on the mark but it is not just our forwards. Our on ballers continue to go to a contest at the top of the square when near 50 metres out, when they regularly have the opportunity to run to 40 and have a crack. Many of our players just do not want to take the responsibility of kicking the goal. This is a major failing and I think we need to penalise guys who fail to take on responsibility. Kick the F.N goal!

 

[Tetley Tigers]

It's the missing piece of the puzzle. Get this right and we are good for finals.

 

[theflea]

The issue with our forward line was captured in one instance last night , where Jack hit heads with Frawley . Edwards led sidewards whilst Jack and Vickery where leading up , jack noticed it was Edwards ball and went to pull out while Vickery just continued on and crashed into Jack , bringing his man to the contest .
Similar has happened often in the last two years and leads to 4 on 3 in the oppositions favour .
We don't have a forward who leads up beyond 3o-40 Metres .
We need Griffiths to play that role , him taking marks and slotting them from 50-60 Metres would destroy oppositions and force them to be more accountable and open the whole forward line .

Isnt this a coaching issue? The first lead clears the space behind.

 

[theflea]

i think we initially eased the pressure on our mids(particularly those who cant kick it well) by kicking to a contest and thats leaves a little time to set up a zone. The problem with this, is as the comp gets stronger it not good enough and we need to be more clinical. We need more leads, more space to work in, more isolation 1 on 1 and less crowding. This means a better system going fwd and maybe ditching the 7th defender(trusting a back line) which in the end we get in our fwd line also. Not an easy fix but clearly something that needs work. We beat side thru sheer numbers not smarts.