The Quality Of AFL Athleticism Compared To Other Sports?

[JackFlash]

IMO the athleticism required to play Australian Rules Football is second to none throughout the world. The amazing feats of athleticism seen in our game every year has the likes of Bruce McAvaney going through a six pack of kleenex facial soft tissues by half time!
Most of us believe there are more hurricanes, wars in Africa and famous nipple slips than 15 years ago. Why is that really? It just seems like that because 24-hour news networks are breathlessly reporting on each one. Similarly, we've been convinced that a select few highly televised moments each season and our football athletes are the greatest in the history of sports. Every year the scribes waffle on about someone who is the greatest of all time. They are better athletes today, but i'm not convinced they are better footballers.

 

[Damon_3388]

Quality of AFL athletes compared to other sports is Overrated imo.

More specifically, I think AFL fans overrate running endurance as a measurable athletic trait.

Yeah, it's a key part of our sport, more so than some others, but generally when thinking of and measuring athleticism, most people aren't looking at or thinking of the beep test or 3K time trials, they're looking at how fast, agile, strong and explosive someone is.

Perhaps it's natural gifts and genetics, perhaps it's upbringing, perhaps it's how the body develops due to the sports you play. Whatever it is, taken out of the sport-specific context, on a world stage, AFL players (especially those 6'4" and above) aren't really amazingly athletic or coordinated or agile overall.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Jack of all trades; master of none.
If you took every athletic measure you could possibly think of, and tested every athlete in the world, I suspect AFL players would fall as “above average” in every category without touching elite in any

Something we can agree on, I'd think guy's like Buddy, Danger and Dusty for example may be elite but they'd be exceptions

 

[Aeglos]

Something we can agree on, I'd think guy's like Buddy, Danger and Dusty for example may be elite but they'd be exceptions

It would depend on the cut off that gets set for elite but all 3 would get absolutely smoked by specialised athletes eg a top class triathlete would smash them in endurance or cardiovascular tests, a gymnast would smash them with regards to flexibility and relative strength, sprinter in top line speed, NFL receiver in agility etc etc

 

[Always Ballin]

It would depend on the cut off that gets set for elite but all 3 would get absolutely smoked by specialised athletes eg a top class triathlete would smash them in endurance or cardiovascular tests, a gymnast would smash them with regards to flexibility and relative strength, sprinter in top line speed, NFL receiver in agility etc etc

triathlons are for nerds though

 

[calyam]

If the athletes that compete in the NBA spent their whole developmental years and professional careers training for the specific athletic and skill requirements of AFL they’d be so greatly superior than our current players.

Well the talent pool in the United States is naturally much deeper given they have a population of over 300 million compared with our 25 million. If the AFL was a US sport then there is a good chance that only a handful of Australian players would make it in that league.

Yep, I agree with this.

I think skin color has nothing to do with it, it's all Darwinian theory. Black people subjected to years of slavery are generally built bigger, stronger and faster because that's what's survived, and IMO it's why Jamaicans and African Americans dominate the 100m sprint. But Kenyans from the Nandi region had a different environmental, cultural and genetic history, they've developed higher levels of endurance and consequently dominate 800m+ events. It's false to say they're a better quality of athlete, they just have different qualities. I'd be interested to see what the benchmark figures are for AFL and what percentage of African American athletes meet them. I suspect for ruck, full forward and fullback they score exceptionally but might struggle with the aerobic demands of other positions.

Might be worth reading The Sports Gene. It explores all of this and more.

Skin colour is largely irrelevant - in fact 'race' doesn't really exist at a genetic level. Though people from specific regions have, for a variety of reasons, developed certain genetic identifiers that can provide an advantage in certain sports.

 

[kaiserchief13]

NFL...

Really???

That's their position - they need to be heavy and strong - don't have to be able to run at all or handle the ball.

 

[Always Ballin]

Well the talent pool in the United States is naturally much deeper given they have a population of over 300 million compared with our 25 million. If the AFL was a US sport then there is a good chance that only a handful of Australian players would make it in that league.



Might be worth reading The Sports Gene. It explores all of this and more.

Skin colour is largely irrelevant - in fact 'race' doesn't really exist at a racial level. Though people from specific regions have, for a variety of reasons, developed certain genetic identifiers that can provide an advantage in certain sports.

Great book.

Here's an exert from it about comparing two elite high jumpers of vastly different phenotype;

2 – A Tale of Two High Jumpers The 10,000 in the 10,000-hour rule, named by Malcolm Gladwell in his book Outliers, refers to the average numbers of hours of deliberate practice required to attain mastery of a subject or sport. For a 2007 study done for chess masters, it was found that 11,000 hours were required on average to become an ELO master. However the variance was high – one players only needed 3,000 hrs whereas another required 23,000 hrs. The explanation suggested for such a high variance was that individual differences in talent have a huge effect - a kind of butterfly effect of expertise. The scientists said “We assume it takes about 10secs to learn a chunk, and it takes about 300,000 chunks to become a Grandmaster. If one person learns a chunk in about 9s and another in 11s, then these small differences are going to be amplified.

The chapter then elaborates the story of two high jumpers – Stefan Holm, who practiced and practiced his way (Holm thinks he has taken more high jumps than any other human being) to an Olympic gold in ’04, and Donald Thomas, a newbie who leapt his way to a surprise victory in the Osaka Athletics World Championships in ’07.

Holm was only 5’11” – so along with his relentless practice, he also weighttrained, concentrating on his left leg, to the point where he could squat 2x his bodyweight. He also focused on a faster run-up, hitting a speed of 19mph. To accommodate that he had to create a longer run-up.

Holm’s training routine – about 12 sessions a week – was split into a morning routine starting around 10am of 2 hours of weights, box jumps, hurdles, and a late afternoon session of at least 30 jumps at full-competition height, making sure that he trained until he crossed whatever height he had set for the session. Holm’s standing vertical jump was only 28”, but his fast approach allowed him to slam down on his achilles tendon, which acted like a rebounding spring to propel him over the bar. His Achilles tendon had stiffened so much from jumping, that a force of 1.8 tons was needed to stretch it 1cm (4x the normal stiffness).

Donald Thomas had barely 8m of training when he won a gold at the Osaka World Championships in ’07 beating Stefan Holm. Later on, scientists identified one of the key reasons for his dramatic success – a 10.5” uncharacteristically long Achilles tendon. The longer and stiffer the tendon, @sajithpai 4 the more elastic energy it can store, and when stretched rocket its owner into air. This is called the stretch-shortening cycle – basically the stretching and subsequent snapping back of of the spring-like tendon. The more power stored in the spring, the more power you generate when it is stretched.

Tendon length is a function of the distance between calf muscle and heel bone, which is connected by the Achilles tendon. Tendon stiffness can be increased by training, but there is also growing evidence that stiffness is partly influenced by an individual’s version of genes involved in making collagen, a protein in the body that helps build ligaments and bones.

A longer and stiffer Achilles tendon is only one of the factors which explains how Holm and Thomas arrived at the pinnacle of their sport in such diverse fashion. Interestingly Thomas has not improved 1cm since he entered the professional circuit, whereas Holm improved constantly through his career

 

[Stefan_Carey]

Please point out on this thread where I or anyone for that matter have not been mindful of anyone's race or gender. Deal

Hey pal, you brought colour into this and colour is a social construct. There's no white man or black man it's just human. One race; the human race my friend. Stop institutionalised racism in sports. White man can jump.

Just be glad I'm not Stefan because if I was I might've taken that seriously and labelled you a racist or a bigot, nice sarcasm - well played

lol clever ducky

 

[Carringbush2010]

Hey pal, you brought colour into this and colour is a social construct.

Social construct? You mean skin colour is by design by the human race itself? How about looking up the word evolution ? It happens in all species and as it happens there are superior physical examples within all species. This is undeniable fact and not by design or discrimination

 

[Leeda]

comparing aussie sports is fraught with danger. I mean footy is two hours of full on running and high intensity short bursts of
exercise. Cricket is from two hours of standing up and running in short term bursts to a total of a day's worth of hot weather and
often humidity and also rain delays.

getting back to footy, the point is that the 'athlete' runs from one half an hour with say an average of five minutes to rest in between.

So these lads are subjected to a whole lot of crunch time where they are 'on' and if they are not moving then they are being given
messages about where they should be moving.

However, having said all that, all sports can't be compared given the changes of each match and time, and weather and how many players
are involved. we all know that the NFL is a bit skewed because they have so many long and short periods of play.

 

[Stefan_Carey]

Social construct? You mean skin colour is by design by the human race itself? How about looking up the word evolution ? It happens in all species and as it happens there are superior physical examples within all species. This is undeniable fact and not by design or discrimination

Our differences are merely social constructs, we all evolved equally as humans, don't try skew this for your hate speech. By extension does your version of evolution also determine that there are superior mental examples within all species too . I bet you aren't a fan of diversity quotas either you racist I thought we had a deal earlier gramps

One species, the human species.

 

[calyam]

Social construct? You mean skin colour is by design by the human race itself? How about looking up the word evolution ? It happens in all species and as it happens there are superior physical examples within all species. This is undeniable fact and not by design or discrimination

'Race' cannot be identified at a genetic level. The groupings of 'white' or 'black' or 'Asian' are purely a social construct. Genetically it doesn't make any sense to separate people by skin colour since there is often greater genetic differences within a given 'race' than there is between two 'races'. Typically there is greater genetic deviation within the African population than their is within the Europe population - as a result you might expect to find both the best and worst athletes to have African descent.

Any evolution advantages or disadvantages are not tied to 'race' but to location.

Even skin colour is a product of location rather than genetics. People in Africa have darker skin because of the temperature and conditions in Africa. People in Europe have lighter skin because of colder weather and less sunlight. The reason our Indigenous population have dark skin in because of the Australian climate.

Over a long enough time period, most Australians would develop darker skin to adapt to our relatively harsh environment. Of course that process might be offset or even stopped by the fact that most of us spend more time indoors and use more sunscreen that our ancestors.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Our differences are merely social constructs, we all evolved equally as humans, don't try skew this for your hate speech. By extension does your version of evolution also determine that there are superior mental examples within all species too . I bet you aren't a fan of diversity quotas either you racist I thought we had a deal earlier gramps

One species, the human species.

You still haven't provided any evidence of any racism or bigotry on this thread, so I'll consider any click bait you throw at me as moot because obviously you can't and are just salty for no known reason given your futile attempts to insult

 

[Carringbush2010]

'Race' cannot be identified at a genetic level. The groupings of 'white' or 'black' or 'Asian' are purely a social construct. Genetically it doesn't make any sense to separate people by skin colour since there is often greater genetic differences within a given 'race' than there is between two 'races'. Typically there is greater genetic deviation within the African population than their is within the Europe population - as a result you might expect to find both the best and worst athletes to have African descent.

Any evolution advantages or disadvantages are not tied to 'race' but to location.

Even skin colour is a product of location rather than genetics. People in Africa have darker skin because of the temperature and conditions in Africa. People in Europe have lighter skin because of colder weather and less sunlight. The reason our Indigenous population have dark skin in because of the Australian climate.

Over a long enough time period, most Australians would develop darker skin to adapt to our relatively harsh environment. Of course that process might be offset or even stopped by the fact that most of us spend more time indoors and use more sunscreen that our ancestors.

Which ever way you look at it, no one can claim evolution is by design by the human race. That would be folly - so please explain how evolution is "socially constructed" by humans in deliberation

 

[calyam]

Which ever way you look at it, no one can claim evolution is by design by the human race. That would be folly - so please explain how evolution is "socially constructed" by humans in deliberation

I never argued that evolution is a social construct. There are absolutely minor differences in genetics that are tied to physical location. However, 'race' absolutely is a social construct.

And to be clear 'race' in the sense that it is used doesn't provide clear physical advantages. People from Jamaica are unusually good at sprinting but good luck finding a good long distance runner. People from Kenya and Ethiopia are remarkably good distance runners but few have made a name as sprinters. However, Jamaicans, Kenyans and Ethiopians all share a very similar skin colour and yet have a very different sporting performance.

Furthermore, as I have already explained there is greater genetic deviation among African populations than there are among European populations. So you'd naturally expect both the best and worst athletes to come from Africa.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I never argued that evolution is a social construct. There are absolutely minor differences in genetics that are tied to physical location. However, 'race' absolutely is a social construct.

And to be clear 'race' in the sense that it is used doesn't provide clear physical advantages. People from Jamaica are unusually good at sprinting but good luck finding a good long distance runner. People from Kenya and Ethiopia are remarkably good distance runners but few have made a name as sprinters. However, Jamaicans, Kenyans and Ethiopians all share a very similar skin colour and yet have a very different sporting performance.

Furthermore, as I have already explained there is greater genetic deviation among African populations than there are among European populations. So you'd naturally expect both the best and worst athletes to come from Africa.

So we agree that genetics are not designed in deliberation by humans themselves or "socially constructed". As for the bulk of your post you don't need to explain that to me as I agree completely, you need to explain that to those that believe stating a fact the a Jamaican is really fast but not as enduring as a Kenyan generally is somehow racist or bigoted which it is clearly not

 

[Stefan_Carey]

You still haven't provided any evidence of any racism or bigotry on this thread, so I'll consider any click bait you throw at me as moot because obviously you can't and are just salty for no known reason given your futile attempts to insult

Genetics are a social construct

you need to explain that to those that believe stating a fact the a Jamaican is really fast but not as enduring as a Kenyan generally is somehow racist or bigoted which it is clearly not

This guy is literally Hitler

 

[Carringbush2010]

Genetics are a social construct
Genetics are not designed deliberately by humans or "socially constructed" as you say, so yeah that comment looks really stupid


This guy is literally Hitler

Fact; Hitler died in WWII so no I'm not him

 

[Stefan_Carey]

Fact; Hitler died in WWII so no I'm not him

I know you're posting from Argentina. Pfft yeah right, "Coaches Box".

 

[TigerKnights]

The only sport I can recall that comes close to footy for all round athleticism is ice hockey. Speed, power, endurance, skills etc. And because of the 360 degree nature of both they are only sports I can think of where guys who are not endowed with the natural physical aspects expected to rule the game can still do so due their "footy brain" not sure ice hockey has the equivalent term. But generally speaking the greats of both would not be considered the physical prototype for their sports. Verses those sports where it happens in front of you. QB's in the NFL might require the mental skill to read a game, but suggest it more play book memory than genuine instinct for the game. Baseball is more chess like and basketballs confines and lack of physicality (v AFL/NHL) simply does not compare. Really the fear of the unknown and unexpected for the individual drives not only physical but mental toughness. And not many if any sports can put both of those attributes together let alone be required week in week out.

 

[bomberz20_72]

The world is now a place for everyone How does it feel to be an anachronism gramps? Why are you so scared of my platitudes of moral superiority Racism and misogyny have no place here.

 

[DangerSloane]

Really depends how you define athleticism.
I think Aussie rules has the best mix...

If you include strength, jumping, speed, endurance and flexibility

 

[Fourthawn]

Size and athleticism are premiums in almost all relevant sports.

Check this out from the AFL US Combine.

"Fastest player over 20m was Drew Martin no 14 - 2.84sec ! Super elite -he's 203cm - hails from Portland -Oregan USA"

Just a higher level of physical specimens over there.

Maybe, but can he run around for 120 minutes while being physically crunched in the contest?

 

[Superstar swan]

Afl players are amongst the fittest in the world however if you look at as purely athletic traits, we are a fair way behind.

Our players are becoming taller but leaner where as american athletes are tending to become all round larger.


Elite nfl running backs and wide recievers are nearly perfect physical athletes.. speed, power, strength , coordination etc..

Imo the Qb is the hardest position and most impressive athlete in all of sports..

Not only do they need natural talent (just like any pro) but they also need super human reflexes, high intelligence (well for the most part anyway) and the ability to play under extreme pressure