the union v league debate

[dr nick]

CROWD AVERAGES 2002:
in QLD:
League: Broncos - 17,671
..............Cowboys - 11,469
Union: Reds - 17,835

in NSW
League: Penrith - 10,075
..............Eagles - 10,113
..............St. George - 12,025
..............Tigers - 11,853
..............Sharks - 13,181
..............Parramatta - 13,874
..............Roosters - 13,366
..............Bulldogs - 14,113
..............Souths - 14,801
Union: Waratahs - 34,318

in ACT:
League: Canberra - 10,738
Union: Brumbies - 21,474

 

[Briedis]

I think you are comparing apples with oranges mate.

Try comparing NRL crowds with rugby club crowds, or Super12 crowds with State Of Origin crowds....

 

[Briedis]

There are a few things though....

You left out the Knights from the NSW group.

Also, look at how many different teams there are compared to just one Waratahs team, obviously they will get more than the 10 or so NSW NRL teams.

Canberras crowds would have been better 5 years ago when they were winning the premiership. The Brumbies were the reigning Super12 champs this year, and therefore they would draw a large crowd.

 

[dr nick]

granted briedis, i was actually comparing sydney clubs, i forgot newcastle, who's crowds are somewhere between souths and brisbane.

the super 12's is the equivalent of the NRL because it is a home and away season and the players are paid professionals at that, the test series would be more comparable to the SOO games.

comparing rugby union club matches would be comparable to the NSWRL, you have to remember that first grade in union is not professional.

it also looks as if the ARU wants a super 14's team based in melbourne, which would mean 7 games down there.

why the NRL are not standing up to the ARU has got me stuffed, they are poaching players left right and centre, and are obviously gaining ground on league in the heartland. did you guys hear that st gregory's is thinking about playing union instead of league?? seems those bludgers that are the NRL heirachy are just letting the union wagon roll right in, whilst they still collect their hefty salaries, year in, year out.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by nicko18
why the NRL are not standing up to the ARU has got me stuffed, they are poaching players left right and centre, and are obviously gaining ground on league in the heartland. did you guys hear that st gregory's is thinking about playing union instead of league?? seems those bludgers that are the NRL heirachy are just letting the union wagon roll right in, whilst they still collect their hefty salaries, year in, year out.

I see that Manly are getting a bit back for league, they are trying to get one of the Waratahs to come to Brookvale!

Also, Mitch Creary, who is making his debut for the Sea Eagles this weekend against the Bulldogs is a former union player. GO MANLY!

 

[Briedis]

An article in todays Daily Telegraph....

Let's get back to league of our own

03jul02

COME on, guys. Get your act together. Extract the digit. Now! I'm talking to rugby league officials, who are sitting around playing the banjo while Rome threatens to burn, writes MIKE GIBSON.

This week, Lote Tuqiri is seriously considering switching to rugby union.
And what is rugby league doing about it?

Bugger all. That's what.

It's shrugging its shoulders, shaking its head and moaning, "Gee, we can't match them. Union has more money. The salary cap has us stuffed.

"Not to mention the chance to play international football at a higher level. If a bloke wants to go to rugby, there's nothing we can do."

What's going on here?

Hey, I remember when rugby league had balls. And I don't mean just leather ones with stitching down the sides.

I remember when rugby league officials would never have countenanced sitting back and watching while another code systematically plucked the eyes out of their game.

Wendell Sailor. Mat Rogers. Now Tuqiri.

Where will it end?

How many champs – and I'm talking genuine stars who can pull a crowd – does rugby league have?

Besides Tuqiri, there's Andrew Johns, Darren Lockyer, Gorden Tallis, Braith Anasta and Trent Barrett. That's it. End of story.

Take these guys out of the equation. Guess what? No equation.

It's put down the glasses, on with the tweed jackets, and we're all off to watch the rah-rahs.

In rugby, when they set their sights on a player such as Tuqiri, Sailor or Rogers, it's John O'Neill business. Money from the big end. All hands on deck.

In league, it's a case of the Broncos, the Sharks, or whoever, doing their best.

Why doesn't rugby league – as a code – unite to fight the marauder?

Why don't they get their corporate heavyweights – the Gerry Harveys, the Tooheys mob, Singo, Channel 9 – and all those other organisations that are loyal to the game, to hit the can and form a fighting fund?

Tuqiri isn't just the best winger in league. Either code, he's the best winger in the world. At 22, he could become the finest finisher we've ever seen.

If you were running a company, you wouldn't let the opposition waltz through the front door and simply just steal your best bit of property.

Yet, in rugby league, that's exactly what they're allowing rugby union to do. To walk up and down the store, check out the merchandise, and say, "I'll take him. And him. And, while you're at it, you can gift-wrap him."

There are those in the game who will tell you that because it's principally the Broncos who are being drained, the other clubs aren't all that bothered.

There's a feeling, in fact, that rival clubs are privately quite chuffed to see the arrogant, and once all-conquering, Broncos cut down to size.

How pathetically small-minded, how alarmingly shortsighted is that?

I also hear a few diehards defiantly declaring, "So what if we lose a few players? No worries. There's always others who'll step up and fill their shoes."

Is that so?

At junior level, and out in the bush, rugby league is haemorrhaging. Even St Gregory's at Campbelltown, one of the game's greatest nurseries, is talking about switching to rugby union.

If there are all these shining young stars, where are they coming from?

Besides, as long as league doesn't pull on the gloves and stand up and fight, who's to say that rugby union won't keep on pinching whatever young stars rugby league may produce?

It doesn't take much to swing a ballgame.

Ask 2UE. Alan Jones switches camps, and suddenly 2GB has turned Sydney radio on its ear.

Broncos officials claim that since they lost Sailor to union, more than 50 per cent of newspaper articles on rugby have featured his name.

While he has still to learn the finer points of the game, Sailor's promotional value to rugby has been inestimable.

Along with Johns, Tuqiri is the most exciting player in rugby league.

If he announces this week that he's switching to union, it'll be a bigger heist than the Great Train Robbery.

Only this is no smash and grab. It's broad daylight. And John O'Neill ain't even wearing a mask.

 

[dr nick]

even a club rugby match got as many people as the eagles game last weekend and it was played at north power. now i know a lot of you will ignore the signiificance of the crowd, oh its a one off etc, and the NRL will too, but ignore it at your own peril. i cant believe the number of times league people make excuses as to why the other codes get so many crowds, in particular the super 12's. they put their big crowds down to being the equivalent of a SOO match, and therefore rugby league needent worry.

rugby union is now the hip sport to be following in schools, and the super 12's is what is making this happen. the NRL can ignore it if they want, but like it or not, they are in direct competition with the super 12's. they share weekend games during the regular season, and whatsmore, they compete for players.

the increasing popularity of the s12's and the stagnant state of league at the moment is responsible for this shift. kids look up to their heroes in rugby league and so decide to play it themselves. kids also look up to the super 12's and so decide to play union. in that sense also, these two comps are in direct competition.

no doubt i will hear again today another league heavy take the naive approach and say that crowds are good considering..... blah blah blah...... that union crowd is just people protesting against us...THAT IS A MAJOR WORRY!! there must be so many kids on the central coast at the age where they start to choose a winter sport to follow, and if they start to play union, thats another half a dozen nails in the proverbial NRL coffin. if things are not done to rectify this (and for once id like to see the NRL swallow some pride and admit that the game is in dire need of first aid) rugby league will just be a tv game, with extremely poor crowds, propped up by state of origin and news ltd.

 

[TigerCraig]

As a follower of both codes (and Aussie Rules and soccer) I think it is hilarious the way the league guys are carrying on. They have been poaching union for years (Ray Price, Russel Fairfax, Michael O'Connor, Matthew Ridge just for a few, plus all the ones who didn't make it) and as soon as they get some of their own medicine they start whinging.

 

[Latrobe]

Originally posted by nicko18
CROWD AVERAGES 2002:
in QLD:
League: Broncos - 17,671
..............Cowboys - 11,469
Union: Reds - 17,835

Learnt math? 17,671 + 11,469! Total average rugby league crowd in Queensland is 29,140. And remember the Broncos aren't playing at Mecca (Lang Park)!

in NSW
League: Penrith - 10,075
..............Eagles - 10,113
..............St. George - 12,025
..............Tigers - 11,853
..............Sharks - 13,181
..............Parramatta - 13,874
..............Roosters - 13,366
..............Bulldogs - 14,113
..............Souths - 14,801
Union: Waratahs - 34,318

You're comparing one team with 9. So a fair comparison is all Sydney league teams with the kick and clap people. And the crowd average for league in the city of Sydney is........113,401.

in ACT:
League: Canberra - 10,738
Union: Brumbies - 21,474

I'll give you that one. Canberra fans are fickle. Go back 5 years and it was Canberra who had better crowds because they were winning the premiership. Now they're languishing near the bottom and the Brumbies are S12 champs.
[/QUOTE]

 

[dr nick]

Re: Re: the union v league debate

Originally posted by Latrobe


Learnt math? 17,671 + 11,469! Total average rugby league crowd in Queensland is 29,140. And remember the Broncos aren't playing at Mecca (Lang Park)!



You're comparing one team with 9. So a fair comparison is all Sydney league teams with the kick and clap people. And the crowd average for league in the city of Sydney is........113,401.



I'll give you that one. Canberra fans are fickle. Go back 5 years and it was Canberra who had better crowds because they were winning the premiership. Now they're languishing near the bottom and the Brumbies are S12 champs.

[/QUOTE]

obviously you never did maths latrobe, on average, there is only one game in qld each round and 3 in sydney. now go find a tutor.

brumbies s12 champs?? you are a bigger goose than i thought you were, i spose that goes hand in hand with your alleged "league has the highest crowd for any football code" claim.

 

[Ell-d5]

Originally posted by TigerCraig
As a follower of both codes (and Aussie Rules and soccer) I think it is hilarious the way the league guys are carrying on. They have been poaching union for years (Ray Price, Russel Fairfax, Michael O'Connor, Matthew Ridge just for a few, plus all the ones who didn't make it) and as soon as they get some of their own medicine they start whinging.

Poached? Who signed those players? Then look at the meaning of the word to see if your term is applicable.

And I'm not whinging about players switching codes. I do have a problem with certain unions who enjoy governemt funding for junior development and then proceed to bankroll the aquisition of a player from another sport.

That is cheating the taxpayer. But then they did that for decades. Why did they allow a free gangway? They were forced into it because the taxman had been alerted to their activities.

 

[Ms.Storm]

Nicho

You make unfair comparisons, Nicho.

You know very well, that Super 12's supporters do not only following union, but follow league as well.....just because they may want to see an international team in town once in a while....but also remember there are only 6 home games for Super 12's series....bet if they had 12 or 13, the average crowd would plummet, particularly if the season is poor.

Half of Canberra Raider fans support the Brumbies......and some even support afl too.

You can't really compare 1 home team (eg Warratahs) to Sydney rugby league teams.....you should just TOTAL the league teams to get the overall attendance not an average, silly billy!

 

[Ian]

You hold a poll on the Internet as to which is the best of the two codes and I bet you League will walk it.
I ran one from a London Wasps forum and the Union got slaughtered.
http://rugby13.5er.com

 

[bulltige]

When I see a poll regarding RL v RU in the UK, League tends to win and usually by a country mile.

There were a couple of these types of polls on one website last month. League was light years in front on both occasions, then suddenly the polls were whiped.

Obviously, the webmeister was a yawnion fan.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by Ian
You hold a poll on the Internet as to which is the best of the two codes and I bet you League will walk it.
I ran one from a London Wasps forum and the Union got slaughtered.
http://rugby13.5er.com

so what, i conducted a poll for 3 codes, aussie rules, rugby union and rugby league on this website. AFL absolutely walked it in, and league came 3rd....

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by bulltige
When I see a poll regarding RL v RU in the UK, League tends to win and usually by a country mile.

There were a couple of these types of polls on one website last month. League was light years in front on both occasions, then suddenly the polls were whiped.

Obviously, the webmeister was a yawnion fan.

that little poll has got absolutely nothing to do with this thread, these crowd figures are for australian games.
perhaps league is more popular in the UK, but ive been told by my dad who used to live there that it dwindles at the feet of union.... but im not going to jump to that conclusion, coz frankly ive never been there, but really, the bbc website had far more union than league last time i checked

 

[bulltige]

Originally posted by nicko18


so what, i conducted a poll for 3 codes, aussie rules, rugby union and rugby league on this website. AFL absolutely walked it in, and league came 3rd....

So what? Ian ran a poll on a London Wasps site. Do you know which code Wasps play?

 

[bulltige]

Originally posted by nicko18


that little poll has got absolutely nothing to do with this thread, these crowd figures are for australian games.
perhaps league is more popular in the UK, but ive been told by my dad who used to live there that it dwindles at the feet of union.... but im not going to jump to that conclusion, coz frankly ive never been there, but really, the bbc website had far more union than league last time i checked

And do you know anything about the Beebs infamous old school tie union loving attitude? There are many within BBC sport who given the chance would ditch soccer in favour of the game they played at public school and university. Don't expect a fair go from Auntie.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by bulltige


And do you know anything about the Beebs infamous old school tie union loving attitude? There are many within BBC sport who given the chance would ditch soccer in favour of the game they played at public school and university. Don't expect a fair go from Auntie.

youre clutching at straws now btige. everyone here seems to think the media does not try to run articles that interest people, rather they have hidden agendas... please

 

[bulltige]

Originally posted by nicko18


youre clutching at straws now btige. everyone here seems to think the media does not try to run articles that interest people, rather they have hidden agendas... please

I wonder what you're clutching.

You sure can argue about things you know nothing about.

 

[Latrobe]

Originally posted by nicko18


so what, i conducted a poll for 3 codes, aussie rules, rugby union and rugby league on this website. AFL absolutely walked it in, and league came 3rd....

Of course GayFL will come 1st on the website for GayFLers influenced by the biased Melbourne media.

And even still Nicko, you're comparing NRL games with state level Yawnion games. Sorry that the truth hurts nicko, but LEAGUE ****S OVER YAWNION IN CLUB CROWDS AND SOO OVER S12! This is a fair comparison!

 

[Cheergirl]

Now Lote Tequiri has signed with the Union Rah Rahs it makes it all suck.I hate the Broncos but surely there needs to be some sort of loyalty given to teams to encourage the players to stay put in league. Union only seem to want youif you are a winger anyway so it seems.

 

[Ms.Storm]

Nicho, Nicho, Nicho......

Originally posted by nicko18


so what, i conducted a poll for 3 codes, aussie rules, rugby union and rugby league on this website. AFL absolutely walked it in, and league came 3rd....

Of course...because its fundamentally an afl site.......do the same poll on a rugby league site, and watch the results!

 

[Ms.Storm]

Latrobe.....

Originally posted by Latrobe


Of course GayFL will come 1st on the website for GayFLers influenced by the biased Melbourne media.

And even still Nicko, you're comparing NRL games with state level Yawnion games. Sorry that the truth hurts nicko, but LEAGUE ****S OVER YAWNION IN CLUB CROWDS AND SOO OVER S12! This is a fair comparison!

Cool

 

[bulltige]

Nicko still hasn't managed to answer why fans on a Wasps RU site would vote in favour of League.

Why two RU v RL polls on a UK national polling site went in favour of RL, with League getting well over 75% in both polls.

Mind you, I think he believes the BBC to be an impartial organisation.