Society/Culture The world's eight richest people have same wealth as poorest 50% (8 humans > 3,500,000,000 humans)

[Geelong_Sicko]

Money is a medium of exchange. It has no impact on the value of goods other than the fact it makes it more easy for people to exchange goods and that can only be a good thing and an incredibly good thing at that since it greatly reduces the cost (in terms of labour effort) to acquire goods. Do away with money and go back to bartering, which I think you stated in your previous post, and the cost of any good or service in terms of how much labour hours a person has to put in a particular job will sky rocket. Like thousand percent increase in prices skyrocketing. Basically the whole of society falls apart without money.

Now I do prefer mass changes to the way banking and wealth transfer is done, but get rid of money, that's ridiculous. No not just ridiculous, dangerous.

I disagree with the bolded, if only for the sole fact that international commerce is done via the primary value of a U.S dollar. All other currencies are marked for/against it. Weaker currencies are pegged to it. Stronger currencies are graded versus the U.S dollar in most currency markets that I know about. Even the black markets have their individual rates vs the U.S dollar.

Value is dependent on what can be given or taken for it. In the absence of bartering or some other value system, it is the dollar that holds a value above all, and dictates the value that commodities are traded in.

As for the rest of it, "but get rid of money, that's ridiculous. No not just ridiculous, dangerous," for what its worth I agree. At the moment. There is no international system able enough to take the place of money at the moment, and to 'rush' a change on the world would be more than dangerous.

It would be horrific.

Contingencies and alternatives should still be planned for though. If there's a better way I'd be the first in line...

 

[Gough]

After decades of voting against their own self interests the average conservatives is now waking up to the fact that they've been conned. Typically they are looking to pass the buck onto others for this, and many for some reason think a millionaire business man from America may be the answer to this, which mostly demonstrates how we ended up in this mess in the first place.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

After decades of voting against their own self interests the average conservatives is now waking up to the fact that they've been conned. Typically they are looking to pass the buck onto others for this, and many for some reason think a millionaire business man from America may be the answer to this, which mostly demonstrates how we ended up in this mess in the first place.

Yep but its good that class consciousness is back.

The lie that the elites are just like everyone else has well and truly been eroded in the past 8 years. As we have seen the rich drastically increase their share of the wealth while everyone else struggles.

When Trump and Brexit are revealed as the Emperor has no clothes bandaids that they are, we will have a genuine oppurtunity for real change. House of Windsor is rightfully shitting itself and pumping out the good PR srories trying to demonstrate how in touch with the people they are. We already got their cousins in Russia, they might be worried the workers are coming back to finish the job.

 

[Seeds]

Closest thing this side of the black stump

Not really. Shorten didn't even support turnballs original super changes as he valued political points with rich baby boomers over fairness in tax distribution and shorten will defend excluding the family home even more rigorously then the Libs from pension asset tests allowing the rich living in 2.5 million dollar homes to still take pensions from tax payers.

 

[Seeds]

I disagree with the bolded, if only for the sole fact that international commerce is done via the primary value of a U.S dollar. All other currencies are marked for/against it. Weaker currencies are pegged to it. Stronger currencies are graded versus the U.S dollar in most currency markets that I know about. Even the black markets have their individual rates vs the U.S dollar.

Value is dependent on what can be given or taken for it. In the absence of bartering or some other value system, it is the dollar that holds a value above all, and dictates the value that commodities are traded in.

As for the rest of it, "but get rid of money, that's ridiculous. No not just ridiculous, dangerous," for what its worth I agree. At the moment. There is no international system able enough to take the place of money at the moment, and to 'rush' a change on the world would be more than dangerous.

It would be horrific.

Contingencies and alternatives should still be planned for though. If there's a better way I'd be the first in line...

Saying there is no better alternative to money is like saying their is no better alternative to oral language. There is no alternative except going without.

The issue of which currency should be a world currency is not the issue of what should replace money, it is a completely different topic. In any case the importance of the US dollar as the world reserve currency is completely overplayed by an economically illiterate media. It doesn't provide that much positive value other than a small fx transaction cost premium. And you could make an argument the benefits are not worth the costs to the US given it reduces the control the US has over the value of its own currency.

On commodity prices. The dollar does not dictate the price of commodities unless world supply of that commodity is constrained to only a select few regions and the marginal producer of that commodity fixes its exchange rate to the US dollar. Even then a change in the value of the US dollar only has a temporary impact on the commodity price as countries can only peg their nominal exchange rates to the US dollar and not their real exchange rates. Plus if the US dollar moves too much in the short term a new marginal producer will come into play.

Commodity prices as with all goods are ultimately determined by supply and demand. The currency their prices are quoted in is irrelevant except in the short run of the rare example I have just described above.

 

[Pessimistic]

Not really. Shorten didn't even support turnballs original super changes as he valued political points with rich baby boomers over fairness in tax distribution and shorten will defend excluding the family home even more rigorously then the Libs from pension asset tests allowing the rich living in 2.5 million dollar homes to still take pensions from tax payers.

They/we are only rich because of good fortune in housing values. Are poor in other aspects

Anyway plenty of countries have the arrangements you suggest and don't seem better off

Except maybe Norway who twigged the principle of resources tax early on in their rescources boom

 

[Jazzsam]

I don't vote.

You think that following one political persuasion over another is an answer to anything?
I dropped off politics a long time ago and I'm proud to say that I'm the most ignorant individual when it come to local politics and holding a belief that one stream of 'political' ideals will flow better than another. All just wishful thinking.

Following your train of thought though and now that you have a start.........keep going.
Show us how this very good start will find itself into a magnificent ending.

Curious as to how not voting is an answer to anything?

The phrase "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" comes to mind.

Wouldn't voting against the major parties be at least something?

On LG-H850 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Power Raid]

time for a wealth tax!

 

[HARKER]

Curious as to how not voting is an answer to anything?
The phrase "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" comes to mind.
Wouldn't voting against the major parties be at least something?

On LG-H850 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I may have my own thoughts what that solution may be and subscribing to one tribe over another may not be the simple solution you'd like it to be.
So I don't know how your borrowed terms come into play. Just vote for someone....anyone....and this will somehow magically make things 'better'

We started something we won't be able to stop and fronting up to poll booth like a good little boy alone, isn't going to make a modicum of difference.
We're talking about a very different politics in play here..

 

[HARKER]

time for a wealth health tax!

I think we've got one of those already.

 

[Power Raid]

I don't vote.

You think that following one political persuasion over another is an answer to anything?
I dropped off politics a long time ago and I'm proud to say that I'm the most ignorant individual when it come to local politics and holding a belief that one stream of 'political' ideals will flow better than another. All just wishful thinking.

Following your train of thought though and now that you have a start.........keep going.
Show us how this very good start will find itself into a magnificent ending.

same

I'd prefer to do my own thing than vote and empower some dip s**t, who has achieved nothing in life (most not all politicians), to have an ego boost.

 

[Jazzsam]

I may have my own thoughts what that solution may be and subscribing to one tribe over another may not be the simple solution you'd like it to be.
So I don't know how your borrowed terms come into play. Just vote for someone....anyone....and this will somehow magically make things 'better'

We started something we won't be able to stop and fronting up to poll booth like a good little boy alone, isn't going to make a modicum of difference.
We're talking about a very different politics in play here..

Oh please don't take my post as narrow and snarky, although i can see that it is.

I was curious as why you dont vote.

I feel like voting against the major parties, whilst not a magical solution, is taking some power away from them. Wouldn't that at least make them pay attention a little.

Although granted this comes with a whole other box of problems.

Maybe you're right

On LG-H850 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Long Live HFC]

I may have my own thoughts what that solution may be and subscribing to one tribe over another may not be the simple solution you'd like it to be.
So I don't know how your borrowed terms come into play. Just vote for someone....anyone....and this will somehow magically make things 'better'

We started something we won't be able to stop and fronting up to poll booth like a good little boy alone, isn't going to make a modicum of difference.
We're talking about a very different politics in play here..

i don't disagree with you generally (i think i've only voted in 2 of the previous 6 or 7 federal elections), but at the same time i think you're doing the AU political system a disservice here. there are plenty of examples of independents or small parties having an influence (for good or for ill) on political outcomes. obvious ones immediately to mind: the dems preventing a GST on fresh food, or harradine selling out the rest of australia on telstra, to get a billion dollars for tasmania.

sure, these aren't necessarily revolutionary outcomes or impacts, but representative democracies are designed not to be revolutionary- it's part of the reason we have a bicameral structure, or why senators have twice the term length of reps.

 

[Power Raid]

Oh please don't take my post as narrow and snarky, although i can see that it is.

I was curious as why you dont vote.

I feel like voting against the major parties, whilst not a magical solution, is taking some power away from them. Wouldn't that at least make them pay attention a little.

Although granted this comes with a whole other box of problems.

Maybe you're right

On LG-H850 using BigFooty.com mobile app

What if the issue is bigger than political parties but our whole parliamentary system?

We have a great nation but that's despite our government rather than because of it.

 

[Long Live HFC]

What if the issue is bigger than political parties but our whole parliamentary system?

which structural improvements did you have in mind?

 

[Jazzsam]

What if the issue is bigger than political parties but our whole parliamentary system?

We have a great nation but that's despite our government rather than because of it.

If you're talking about upheaval of our entire political system. I shudder to think of the absolute bolloks fest that would be.

Without of radical change, what can we(the people) do to lessen this revolving door we have for a political system?

On LG-H850 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HARKER]

Oh please don't take my post as narrow and snarky, although i can see that it is.

I was curious as why you dont vote.

I feel like voting against the major parties, whilst not a magical solution, is taking some power away from them. Wouldn't that at least make them pay attention a little.

Although granted this comes with a whole other box of problems.

Maybe you're right

On LG-H850 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm sorry if I did. I just have a bad style that makes things come across that way.

I don't have any, 'faith, trust, love' for any party in exposed local, or even world politics.
I may be wrong but I don't think they make any real difference any more. I feel they used to when I was young but I may have just been naive.

There are clearly (clearly to me) much bigger forces in play that mould the way we largely live....and I didn't come to this conclusion in recent years.
Have felt this way for a long time but every year just shows up more and more for this to be the case.

I have also known people that have become politicians and boy what a difference in personality you see, when they do get absorbed into the system.
It's just uncanny how much they can change in manner, ideals, world views etc. It's the party above all......but I do have a small sample size.

 

[HARKER]

i don't disagree with you generally (i think i've only voted in 2 of the previous 6 or 7 federal elections), but at the same time i think you're doing the AU political system a disservice here. there are plenty of examples of independents or small parties having an influence (for good or for ill) on political outcomes. obvious ones immediately to mind: the dems preventing a GST on fresh food, or harradine selling out the rest of australia on telstra, to get a billion dollars for tasmania.

sure, these aren't necessarily revolutionary outcomes or impacts, but representative democracies are designed not to be revolutionary- it's part of the reason we have a bicameral structure, or why senators have twice the term length of reps.

Someone very close to me has in recent years been at the head in getting a political party off the ground.
You can't do this until you know this....You can't get there until you're in bed with them over here....You can't have this policy until you take on this one.

I won't and shouldn't go much further but the whole thing was hijacked away from its start point before and had to become absorbed into a broader system, before having any way of becoming a legitimate entity. i.e. You largely become a part in the bigger machine

 

[Long Live HFC]

Someone very close to me has in recent years been at the head in getting a political party off the ground.
You can't do this until you know this....You can't get there until you're in bed with them over there....You can't have this policy until you take on this one.

I won't and shouldn't go much further but the whole thing was hijacked away from its start point before and had to become absorbed into a broader system, before have any way of becoming a legitimate entity.

well, that to me just seems like "politics as its always been". parliamentary democracy is all about compromise, and those with the biggest influence/$$ get more of what they want. sucks, but i can't think of a political structure in human history where this wasn't the case. even the birthplace of democracy, athens, only allowed the propertied (male) class to vote.

 

[Jazzsam]

I'm sorry if I did. I just have a bad style that makes things come across that way.

No sweat, tone is hard in txt.

I don't have any, 'faith, trust, love' for any party in exposed local, or even world politics.
I may be wrong but I don't think they make any real difference any more. I feel they used to when I was young but I may have just been naive.

There are clearly (clearly to me) much bigger forces in play that mould the way we largely live....and I didn't come to this conclusion in recent years.
Have felt this way for a long time but every year just shows up more and more for this to be the case.

I definitely see where you're coming from here. I only recently in the past 5 or so years started paying realclose attention to politics. Its just awful. They just govern for themselves and oppose to win government, no middle ground and we all lose.

I have also known people that have become politicians and boy what a difference in personality you see, when they do get absorbed into the system.
It's just uncanny how much they can change in manner, ideals, world views etc. It's the party above all......but I do have a small sample size.

Interesting insight, I've always wondered about this. Politics looks quite bad from the outside, I couldn't imagine what goes on behind closed doors.



On LG-H850 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Seeds]

They/we are only rich because of good fortune in housing values. Are poor in other aspects

Anyway plenty of countries have the arrangements you suggest and don't seem better off

Except maybe Norway who twigged the principle of resources tax early on in their rescources boom

There isnt a country in the world even remotely employing the policies I advocate. Wealth is wealth. There is no such thing as being both poor and rich. What's worse not including houses in pension asset caps is encouraging older people to keep their 4 bedrooms home despite their kids having left home which is only adding to the extreme housing bubble we are currently in. These people should be downsizing to apartments in their old age like their parents before them or going on a sea change. They should be moving into $500,000 dollar homes and having 2 million dollars in cash and other assets from which to live off. Instead they are stealing from their kids by both not selling their houses to them which constrains supply and drawing a pension which ups their kids taxes. And shorten is more for this than anyone. So no the left is not doing a thing about unjust wealth inequality.

 

[Seeds]

well, that to me just seems like "politics as its always been". parliamentary democracy is all about compromise, and those with the biggest influence/$$ get more of what they want. sucks, but i can't think of a political structure in human history where this wasn't the case. even the birthplace of democracy, athens, only allowed the propertied (male) class to vote.

Why are you only looking to the past for solutions? We would still be living in monarchies if no one ever adopted new ideas. Technology and our knowledge of the nature of humanity and the world has changed dramatically since our parliament was put together. With the knowledge we now have we would do things dramatically different.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Why are you only looking to the past for solutions?

? i wasn't looking for solutions. i was (loosely) referencing the history of representative government.

 

[Power Raid]

which structural improvements did you have in mind?

1) I strongly believe democracy should be about policy not personality.

With the rise of media and social media, we have seen a greater emphasis on personality. So much so, many people think or commented we have a presidential system.

A remedy to return to policy focused democracy, I would ban politicians from talking to the media of all forms including social media. The governments around the world have effectively done this for companies for capital raising such as initial public offerings. Rather they should be limited to communicating policy through a prospectus detailing the budget, time lines and outcomes. This document should form part of the basis of accountability, where performance is benchmarked.

Britain has taken the step of banning pictures in offer documents, and the use of colour, for companies. These dry documents are designed to bring back focus to the merits of an offer rather than the personality and marketing glitz. If it is deemed appropriate by government for companies, perhaps what is good for the goose is good for the gander!


2) Close Canberra and use technology.

Firstly in today's day and age, with modern technology, video conferencing is sufficient. There is still a need for Federal parliament but there is no need for politicians to be in Canberra to attend parliament.

A crazy statistic was provided recently on media, regarding what % of politicians are on anti-depressants. I will have a guess what that number was (40%) but happy to be corrected.

Can we have politicians with mental health running the country? but the bigger question is why are they depressed or have mental health issues? Perhaps having politicians living with their families and focusing on policy rather than running a popularity contest is a in part the solution.

It will also save travel costs and the need for whores.


3) Demarcation of states and federal governments - respect the constitution

the Australian constitution was drafted with strong states in mind. The second world war triggered a need for income tax to be handed over to the federal govt for its war effort. Sadly this robbed states of their income and the encroachment of the federal govt onto state territory has continued.

Local solutions for local problems is a must. With increased federal govt input we see a decrease in service levels (DSC vs NDIS), an increase in "un-accountablity" (health with state vs federal blame game) (off shore processing) and "unprofessional" conduct (centrelink).

The feds should collect the $s and run the military and similar functions. The states should recieve most of the funds collected by the feds and be solely responsible for education, health and policing. Where international co-operation is required, we should have an RBA style COAG separate from politics.


4) More Independent departments - ie RBA

One of our better functioning departments is the RBA, which is independent from politics. Perhaps we need to think about why this model works so well and create more independent departments.

The independent public school model is a good example. The state writes the cheque but the school is managed separate from the education department.


5) increase the pay 5 fold but have 10 times less people

We have to attract quality candidates, as the job is too important. Instead we are attracting pissant quality candidates where a fish and chip shop owner is probably got the stronger CV than half of her peers. That's embarrassing.


6) Get rid of the prime minister

Looking at the Swiss model, we should have a prime minister's cabinet rather than a prime minister. The cabinet should take it in turns of being the prime minister each month. Again this removes the focus from a popularity contest, to an important role of JUST being the spokes person of the cabinet.

 

[Seeds]

? i wasn't looking for solutions. i was (loosely) referencing the history of representative government.

You used the phrase "sucks, but?" As if history is the only answer to the problem.