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Themanbun's Midfield Minute

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I know what the stats say. I also see our opponents regularly get clean stoppage exits as if we aren’t there.

These Ziebell ‘clearances’ we get are net negatives as they more often than not give the oppo the first clean possession after the stoppage.

Weirdly enough, Clarkos hawthorn teams preyed on teams Ziebell clearances.
 
kanga kanga kanga said:
sheezel had our second best cba/clearance ratio but yeah let’s send him to half back cause he can’t play midfield
Click to expand...

He needs time. I don't think he's acquitting himself well in terms of roles in there at the moment. But he's less than a year into it and they are sharing the setup roles around more this year.
 
Themanbun said:
He needs time. I don't think he's acquitting himself well in terms of roles in there at the moment. But he's less than a year into it and they are sharing the setup roles around more this year.
Click to expand...
but based on the stats he was our second best midfielder so we have to play him there
 

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Psicosis said:
My understanding of the Parker acquisition, was that he would be supporting the young players, not taking their mid minutes.

Parker is a top 3 CBA player for us this year. When Wardlaw came in, his CBAs remained the same whilst Powell and Sheezels reduced.

WTAF are the morons in the coaches box doing?
Click to expand...

I have two theories.

(1) He's in there to tell them what to do.

(2) He's in there to tell Clarko what they are not doing.
 
Watched the GWS vs Adelaide game and the midfield accountability from Adelaide was fantastic the rolled together as a unit clogging up space while not allowing GWS to play their controlling uncontested marking game.

The Adelaide midfield unit consists of Crouch, Dawson, Soligo, Rankine, Cumming and Laird, with Neal-Bullen and Keays pushing up from half forward.

Outside of Rankine none of those players are particularly quick. I’d argue that the likes of LDU, Simpkin, Powell and co would have that Adelaide midfield group covered for speed. What we don’t have, that Adelaide do have is the ability to anticipate turnovers and react quickly….Crouch, Laird and Dawson are masters of it, and it allows them to get into positions to impact opposition forays forward. They are accountable to a direct opponent on transition, but they also position themselves in areas where they are likely to intercept.

Our midfielders meanwhile are:

1. Too slow to react, therefore can’t slow the opposition down and nor provide pressure.

2. Get caught in no man’s land in areas where they are unlikely to intercept.

It drives me bananas, because there are plenty of players in the VFL or other state leagues that have this defensively minded footy IQ. Yet none of our midfielders commit to it on any sort level on a regular basis.

Is our coaches teaching it poorly or is it that our midfielders are too lazy or are they too dumb to implement what they are being taught?

I just can’t believe we can be so bad in this department.
 
FWIW I’ve been ok with the midfield first strategy. Larkey is our KF for the next 5 years. You buy or find backs.

But all our mids are Ferraris. Who’s going to volunteer to do the dirty work and sweep/block/sacrifice? You don’t spend top 5 picks on that.

Also, out of Sheezel, Duursma, McKercher, LDU, Powell, Wardlaw…who’s the 2 way runner? I’d argue none of them.

With the amount of clean ball coming back at us through turnover, you’d need the all time greatest back 6.

At this stage, I’m ready to call it and say we don’t have that.
 
Themanbun said:
I have two theories.

(1) He's in there to tell them what to do.

(2) He's in there to tell Clarko what they are not doing.
Click to expand...

Someone has to “direct traffic “ in there. Take him out and the 3 in there will end up running into each other.
 

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Scallop Industry Thug said:
FWIW I’ve been ok with the midfield first strategy. Larkey is our KF for the next 5 years. You buy or find backs.

But all our mids are Ferraris. Who’s going to volunteer to do the dirty work and sweep/block/sacrifice? You don’t spend top 5 picks on that.

Also, out of Sheezel, Duursma, McKercher, LDU, Powell, Wardlaw…who’s the 2 way runner? I’d argue none of them.

With the amount of clean ball coming back at us through turnover, you’d need the all time greatest back 6.

At this stage, I’m ready to call it and say we don’t have that.
Click to expand...
If that's how sh*te Ferrari's run, glad I could never afford one!
 
The one thing that sticks out like dogs balls to me is LDU is being munted by his roles around stoppages.

He is 30% down on CPs and clearances and 50% down on ground ball gets. He is down across the board, except for CCs, which he always has oppo players hanging off him. It's clear as day he is staying outside based on all his numbers.

We have 1 player with genuine burst through congestion and he's role playing 50% of the time he's at stoppage. Just ****ing stupid.
 
archereleven said:
The one thing that sticks out like dogs balls to me is LDU is being munted by his roles around stoppages.

He is 30% down on CPs and clearances and 50% down on ground ball gets. He is down across the board, except for CCs, which he always has oppo players hanging off him. It's clear as day he is staying outside based on all his numbers.

We have 1 player with genuine burst through congestion and he's role playing 50% of the time he's at stoppage. Just ****ing stupid.
Click to expand...

I have an opinion on this that a lot of people will disagree with, and that's fine.

But IMO he needs to adapt. This isn't juniors or divvy footy where you can let a gun run around doing whatever they want and build your entire midfield around that. You become way too predictable to the other side and unpredictable to your mates, and teams use this to their advantage. He'll get mad stats but we'll get slaughtered as a unit.

If it's good enough for Patty Cripps and Daicos to sweep, lay blocks and receive half the time, it's good enough for LDU.
 
Themanbun said:
I have an opinion on this that a lot of people will disagree with, and that's fine.

But IMO he needs to adapt. This isn't juniors or divvy footy where you can let a gun run around doing whatever they want and build your entire midfield around that. You become way too predictable to the other side and unpredictable to your mates, and teams use this to their advantage. He'll get mad stats but we'll get slaughtered as a unit.

If it's good enough for Patty Cripps and Daicos to sweep, lay blocks and receive half the time, it's good enough for LDU.
Click to expand...
I have no problem at all with LDU playing roles throughout the midfield, but he is legit one of the only blokes we have on the list that can get his own ball, break a tackle and get into space. I would prefer he ball hunt until those around him get up to scratch as AFL standard mids with consistency in their own roles.

I'm tipping LDU would play better beside Cripps, Walsh, Hewitt, Daicos, Pendles, Sidebottom et al compared to 50 gamers that are confused and blowing assignments as often as they are completing them.

Our starting midfield compilation is terrible imo. I'd like to see more consistency of personal in there where we have trios gelling together with offensive/defensive set ups, clearance/defending clearance etc etc It's like the coaching staff just send in whoever is rested and available with no thought to strengths/weaknesses in the mix.

If we are 2 goals down with 5 minutes to go and the oppo team has a run on of 3 goals, who are we sending into the next centre bounce? LDU, Powell and Sheezel? I'd hope not...

Are our experienced mids getting taught set ups and watching film? I don't think I've seen LDU ever call out someone to reposition themselves. Like the stills you posted above, is the midfield unit looking through these? Are they being tested? Why is the sweeper getting sucked in? What questions are being asked? What film are they watching to reinforce good setup with all mids doing their jobs?

For a supposed strength of our team, Ive see nothing but a cluster**** in there at times and imo, that's comes down to coaching.
 
!!!BONUS STOPPAGE!!!

Apologies for the all bold and italic font at the bottom, it decided to glitch out and not toggle off halfway through typing this.

I watched the replay with an eye to where it started to go wrong. As you can see, the score is 14-15, right before Carlton got their run on at the end of the first quarter. Here's a critical ball up that led to a goal against.

The problem here: a bit of setup, a bit of temperament, and a bit of work rate. That's a fair bit to get wrong in a single play.

How it played out.

The Setup - Image 1 - Carlton going to right of screen
This is a somewhat standard setup for both sides - although we have an offensive weighting to the left of screen, which doesn't amount to much.

We have Tucker as the fat side winger, protecting the lateral-middle side of the ball up.. George as the hit-to, Harry as the receive option.

Then we set up an offensive side wall. Parker works his way to the left of screen and places himself below Jy, around about where the name 'Alister Nicholson' is on the screen in this image.

I have circled two critical matchups.
  • Adam Saad (green circle) vs. Jy Simpkin (red circle): Saad as the half back is allowing Jy as the half-forward to push up to the contest. Believe it or not, this is a head to head, as Colby is sitting offensive side of the stoppage rather than defensive. NOTE: Usually you will see Colby as our skinny side winger (closer to the action) sitting on the defensive side (right) of the stoppage, but being close-ish to the middle of the field, it's not the worst thing I've seen.

    Saad is playing to his weapons and Jy to his. Saad knows he can do more damage being an outlet, so he doesn't roll up to close out Jy, and look at all that space toward the corridor that he is even pointing to. He also knows that Jy can only really hit a short handball from that position even if he is the difference maker in the stoppage, in which case Saad is 5m defensive and corridor of him anyway, which is the way Saad will have to roll. When we do this setup you'll often see Caleb Daniel much closer to the contest.

    Smart player is Saad.

  • Sam Walsh vs Harry Sheezel (red underline match up): Straight up head to head.


Stoppage - Setup image.png


The Tap and receive - Image 2
Wardlaw receives the tap but Hewett is on him like glue. Good battle.

Image 2: Sheezel hedges defensive here despite George getting the receive. Unfortunately he doesn't identify that there is nothing dangerous that Carlton can do to the right of screen and he gives Walsh just a bit too much room who manages to nullify our offensive weighting at the stoppage to the left of screen.

Stoppage - Wardlaw Receives Tap.png

Image 3 - The useless wall

There are two errors here: Wardlaw stumbles in the tackle, but remembers he has mates at the offensive side of the stoppage. So he puts it there - but as they are all facing against play and into traffic, Walsh manages to read it much better and already starts gaining separation on Harry.

However the cardinal sin here - the North players' eyes lit up. Colby creeps in from the far left of screen, which should have been Jy. Jy creeps in too far and starts moving backward. Tucker doesn't spread corridor direction. Parker is the only one who is where he should be here. We have 4 blokes with a metre between them, and nothing but Carlton out behind and in front of them. This little wall is useless - we have four players guarding a 4m lineal patch of space - and is the 'bees to the honeypot' that kills midfield functioning. Even if they DO receive the ball, Parker is the only one who can spread to the left of screen quickly, because the others are all ball watching, torsos facing straight into the contest.


Stoppage - Useless Wall Image.png

Image 4 - Carlton zig and zag

In footy there is this saying to work in triangles. This is a perfect example by Carlton here.

Walsh receives the ball, and despite having 4 North players ahead of him, because of the uselessness of that little wall described in Image 3, he slices us up. Colby gets too excited and dives in (you're a winger, please hold your space), as does Jy. Despite having 4 blokes to two on that side of the contest, our triangle never even forms, let alone breaks. Saad times his approach just right, gets the handball receive, and then has all that space he pointed to in Image 1.

Saad uses that space and they go fat side and corridor - not a great combination for us to be able to defend.

Stoppage - Walsh Cut Through.png

Image 5 - The outside game

We've fast forward past Saad's kick into the fat side and corridor.

This is where it gets even uglier and becomes more than just a setup/excitement issue.

Take a look at the Carlton bloke to the right of screen with his hand up - that's Sam Walsh. Now take a look at North Melbourne's number 3, who if we recall correctly, was his direct opponent in the stoppage where he beat 5 of our blokes.

I love Harry, he's my favourite player at the moment (alongside Georgey boy). But he just needs to run harder here. I've been critical of Colby, and at first glance you'd think this was him not tracking Walsh. But this one wasn't his fault.

What is unseen in this still, is that immediately after this, Walsh steams into the 50 and was an option, 40 out, right in front, by himself. One of Carlton's other forwards gets the mark out on the lead (who Walsh got front and centre to as well), but the kicker had an option in Walsh which I hope doesn't get glossed over in the review.

Stoppage - Sheezel Walsh Transition.png
 
Last edited:

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Themanbun said:
!!!BONUS STOPPAGE!!!

Apologies for the all bold and italic font at the bottom, it decided to glitch out and not toggle off halfway through typing this.

I watched the replay with an eye to where it started to go wrong. As you can see, the score is 14-15, right before Carlton got their run on at the end of the first quarter. Here's a critical ball up that led to a goal against.

The problem here: a bit of setup, a bit of temperament, and a bit of work rate. That's a fair bit to get wrong in a single play.

How it played out.

The Setup - Image 1 - Carlton going to right of screen
This is a somewhat standard setup for both sides - although we have an offensive weighting to the left of screen, which doesn't amount to much.

We have Tucker as the fat side winger, protecting the lateral-middle side of the ball up.. George as the hit-to, Harry as the receive option.

Then we set up an offensive side wall. Parker works his way to the left of screen and places himself below Jy, around about where the name 'Alister Nicholson' is on the screen in this image.

I have circled two critical matchups.
  • Adam Saad (green circle) vs. Jy Simpkin (red circle): Saad as the half back is allowing Jy as the half-forward to push up to the contest. Believe it or not, this is a head to head, as Colby is sitting offensive side of the stoppage rather than defensive. NOTE: Usually you will see Colby as our skinny side winger (closer to the action) sitting on the defensive side (right) of the stoppage, but being close-ish to the middle of the field, it's not the worst thing I've seen.

    Saad is playing to his weapons and Jy to his. Saad knows he can do more damage being an outlet, so he doesn't roll up to close out Jy, and look at all that space toward the corridor that he is even pointing to. He also knows that Jy can only really hit a short handball from that position even if he is the difference maker in the stoppage, in which case Saad is 5m defensive and corridor of him anyway, which is the way Saad will have to roll. When we do this setup you'll often see Caleb Daniel much closer to the contest.

    Smart player is Saad.

  • Sam Walsh vs Harry Sheezel (red underline match up): Straight up head to head.


View attachment 2289564


The Tap and receive - Image 2
Wardlaw receives the tap but Hewett is on him like glue. Good battle.

Image 2: Sheezel hedges defensive here despite George getting the receive. Unfortunately he doesn't identify that there is nothing dangerous that Carlton can do to the right of screen and he gives Walsh just a bit too much room who manages to nullify our offensive weighting at the stoppage to the left of screen.

View attachment 2289569

Image 3 - The useless wall

There are two errors here: Wardlaw stumbles in the tackle, but remembers he has mates at the offensive side of the stoppage. So he puts it there - but as they are all facing against play and into traffic, Walsh manages to read it much better and already starts gaining separation on Harry.

However the cardinal sin here - the North players' eyes lit up. Colby creeps in from the far left of screen, which should have been Jy. Jy creeps in too far and starts moving backward. Tucker doesn't spread corridor direction. Parker is the only one who is where he should be here. We have 4 blokes with a metre between them, and nothing but Carlton out behind and in front of them. This little wall is useless - we have four players guarding a 4m lineal patch of space - and is the 'bees to the honeypot' that kills midfield functioning. Even if they DO receive the ball, Parker is the only one who can spread to the left of screen quickly, because the others are all ball watching, torsos facing straight into the contest.


View attachment 2289580

Image 4 - Carlton zig and zag

In footy there is this saying to work in triangles. This is a perfect example by Carlton here.

Walsh receives the ball, and despite having 4 North players ahead of him, because of the uselessness of that little wall described in Image 3, he slices us up. Colby gets too excited and dives in (you're a winger, please hold your space), as does Jy. Despite having 4 blokes to two on that side of the contest, our triangle never even forms, let alone breaks. Saad times his approach just right, gets the handball receive, and then has all that space he pointed to in Image 1.

Saad uses that space and they go fat side and corridor - not a great combination for us to be able to defend.

View attachment 2289589

Image 5 - The outside game

We've fast forward past Saad's kick into the fat side and corridor.

This is where it gets even uglier and becomes more than just a setup/excitement issue.

Take a look at the Carlton bloke to the right of screen with his hand up - that's Sam Walsh. Now take a look at North Melbourne's number 3, who if we recall correctly, was his direct opponent in the stoppage where he beat 5 of our blokes.

I love Harry, he's my favourite player at the moment (alongside Georgey boy). But he just needs to run harder here. I've been critical of Colby, and at first glance you'd think this was him not tracking Walsh. But this one wasn't his fault.

What is unseen in this still, is that immediately after this, Walsh steams into the 50 and was an option, 40 out, right in front, by himself. One of Carlton's other forwards gets the mark out on the lead (who Walsh got front and centre to as well), but the kicker had an option in Walsh which I hope doesn't get glossed over in the review.

View attachment 2289597
Click to expand...

Joey covered this exact stoppage on First Crack tonight.
 
The discussion:

 
giantroo said:
The discussion:

Click to expand...

Kingy's right about the effort of the back six - Corr's one hand effort in those clips was unacceptable

On the stoppage material, I've been saying for a while it's a lack of trust - blokes are leaving their man because they think someone won't get the job done, and ending up in no man's land.
 
Merlin007 said:
Kingy's right about the effort of the back six - Corr's one hand effort in those clips was unacceptable

On the stoppage material, I've been saying for a while it's a lack of trust - blokes are leaving their man because they think someone won't get the job done, and ending up in no man's land.
Click to expand...

Second hand but we are a very quiet midfield.

I think it's mostly down to a lack of communication, which shouldn't be happening when X, Jy and Parker are in there.

I get that it's hard at around the ground stoppages since there's so little time to setup. But it doesn't take much to say "Colby you need to hold out, Darce protect the corridor better."
 
Themanbun said:
Second hand but we are a very quiet midfield.

I think it's mostly down to a lack of communication, which shouldn't be happening when X, Jy and Parker are in there.

I get that it's hard at around the ground stoppages since there's so little time to setup. But it doesn't take much to say "Colby you need to hold out, Darce protect the corridor better."
Click to expand...
I can believe this; it certainly doesn't help that LDU, our best mid, isn't a talker
 
Themanbun said:
Second hand but we are a very quiet midfield.

I think it's mostly down to a lack of communication, which shouldn't be happening when X, Jy and Parker are in there.

I get that it's hard at around the ground stoppages since there's so little time to setup. But it doesn't take much to say "Colby you need to hold out, Darce protect the corridor better."
Click to expand...

Makes you wonder what goes on during the week in match reviews.

If you and Rick18 can pick this stuff, surely it's being addressed with the camera angles and shit they'd have at their disposal.

None of this is ****ing rocket science.
 

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Themanbun's Midfield Minute

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