Three Ruckmen?

[ruscy002]

One thing that I have always found intriguing is that back in the day when Blight was coach and we won the flags, he always played 3 ruckmen, even in that era when there were only 3 interchange players.

So, some food for thought...

Kurt Tippett obviously looks the goods, does anybody know whether or not were developing a key defensive side to this guy's game? I know we're developing the ruck/attacking side to his game but he could be one of our linchpins in the future by also picking up defensive skills.

He's then a predominantly forward/ruckman, but when were coming up against sides who push monsters forward (as West Coast do to great effect against us) such as Cox/Seaby, Ottens, Everitt etc. then Tippett can push back and stand them, allowing Rutten, Bock and co to still play on their best forwards, or one of them pushes forward for us etc. Our main rucks would then obviously be Biglands/Maric or Biglands/Griffin (then Maric/Griffin going forward).

Pittman did this back in the day to great effect (more so defensively though, think 1997 GF), and with Tippett we're talking about the potential to be an all round key utility way beyond Pittman's ability (great tap ruckman though).

By playing smart midfield rotations through a forward pocket it will decrease the reliance for bench rotations for all of our midfielders (Thommo can be a bit of a gun up forward), and as I said, we did this when there were only 3 interchange players. I know the game is faster now, but in Tippett were talking more about a KP player who rucks a bit and would spend most of the time on the field.

Are we on a winner here?

 

[Farmy]

If one of the ruckmen is reasonably fast then I don't see why not.

 

[jackster83]

Hopefully either Maric or Tippett or both follow in the footsteps of Brogan (minus the bad attitude) and becomes a ruckman who takes grabs all around the ground. This would allow Griffin to play more up forward (like Seaby) as either a 2nd ruckman/resting forward or as a tall forward who rucks a bit and play 3 ruckmen.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Might be worth a shot if Hentschel doesn't come up. If Hentschel does come up we may have an excess of talls with the 3 rucks?

Like the idea of Griffin, Tippett, Biglands/Maric roaming around though.

 

[ruscy002]

I also think in Maric we're dealing with a similar level of ability. Got a wonderful kick at goal (his running shot from the pocket in his debut at Essendon comes to mind) and he's pretty mobile.

 

[MJ101]

I like the versatility that three ruckman system brings.
The third however i would us primarily as a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck. Tippet and griffen seem to fit this mould perfectly.
As has been mentioned...the obvious downside is the lack of rotation options through the midfield and a general loss of pace over the ground.

Can we afford to be top heavy when our pace through the midfield is one of the general critisicms we have with our current squad??? Depends on who we draft i spose.

 

[Mong]

We may have played three ruckmen but only two of them played as ruckmen in any one game. David Pittman was used quite successfully at Centre Half Back.

I only think you'd do it if one of them could play a full time role elsewhere. Otherwise it would really limit your flexibility.

 

[Mismatched]

Tippet is primarily being developed as our next CHF essentially, so yes we will in effect be playing 3 Ruckman sized players if all goes to plan although in reality the 3rd in Tippet will be a key forward.

At the moment at the AFC he is regarded as a better prospect up forward than Sellar, however, with our ruck battery as uncertain as it is, there is a distinct possiblity that Tippet may have to move into the Ruck where he has shown some genuine talent.

 

[KUNG FU]

I've been favour of this idea for a while, but even moreso now with our current ruck situation. All of our four ruckmen (yes, I am including Tippett, although I would stand by the club's statement they intend to use him as a forward) can play forward and kick goals. However, its a relatively weak department for 2008. Rotating three of them between midfield, forward and the bench would although tremendous flexibility and provide the cornerstone for our forward line to be built around. As all three of them are quite capable of kicking a goal it would provide quite a distraction for the opposition's defence and leave players like Welsh, Gill, Burton and Porplyzia to weave the magic we all know they can, if they have a bit of pressure taken off them.

 

[ruscy002]

We may have played three ruckmen but only two of them played as ruckmen in any one game. David Pittman was used quite successfully at Centre Half Back.

I only think you'd do it if one of them could play a full time role elsewhere. Otherwise it would really limit your flexibility.

Exactly my point. He is essentially a key forward who takes the ruck duties in the forward half of the ground, which allows our primary rotating rucks to push back into the defensive hole.

The whole idea of developing Tippett's defensive skills is so that when the opposition pushes monsters forward, he then becomes the one to take them and perform defensive ruck duties. Our primary rucks can then push forward to create an option, depending on whether or not pushing Tippett back requires one of our other key defenders (i.e. Bock) to sneak forward.

 

[Mong]

Exactly my point. He is essentially a key forward who takes the ruck duties in the forward half of the ground, which allows our primary rotating rucks to push back into the defensive hole.

I'm all for it as long as the player in question is genuinely selected as a forward on merits rather than just being put there because he's a ruckman.

We all have high hopes for Tippett. He is probably the most intriguing youngster we have on our list.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Blighty played 3 ruckmen because each one of them was capable of playing KP full time. He used Pittman as a key defender a lot of the time and both Marsh and Rehn were capable as key forward options.

I am not sure we quite have the flexibility just yet with our ruckmen.

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

I also think in Maric we're dealing with a similar level of ability. Got a wonderful kick at goal (his running shot from the pocket in his debut at Essendon comes to mind) and he's pretty mobile.

Ey, that was against the filth mate.

 

[ruscy002]

Blighty played 3 ruckmen because each one of them was capable of playing KP full time. He used Pittman as a key defender a lot of the time and both Marsh and Rehn were capable as key forward options.

I am not sure we quite have the flexibility just yet with our ruckmen.

Maric and Biglands would be capable of seeing out a whole game in the forward line if the need arose. Not sure Griffen has the skills an/or knowhow to do so yet, which might be a setback for him if such a plan were to be implemented as early as next year.

I'm very much offended that Aaron Keating has an AFL premiership medal and I don't

 

[Stiffy_18]

Maric and Biglands would be capable of seeing out a whole game in the forward line if the need arose. Not sure Griffen has the skills an/or knowhow to do so yet, which might be a setback for him if such a plan were to be implemented as early as next year.

I'm very much offended that Aaron Keating has an AFL premiership medal and I don't

I don't particularly agree with you on the very first sentence. Biglands has shown in the past that he is a terrible full time forward. He does his best work when he is thrown forward for a rest where he can take advantage while the defence is still adapting to his presence. A full game forward he is not. A good pinch hitter, he is. I think the same hold true for Maric.

The game has also changed a fair bit since the 90s and now its a lot more skillful and a lot more "pedantic". With Blight it was get it, kick it long to a contest and get your crumbers front and square. Robran was the big pole that you aim at across the HF area and you knew that he would at least bring it to the ground.

In modern football thats a bit more difficult to pull off with all the zone defences and ultra flooding.

 

[jo172]

I don't particularly agree with you on the very first sentence. Biglands has shown in the past that he is a terrible full time forward. He does his best work when he is thrown forward for a rest where he can take advantage while the defence is still adapting to his presence. A full game forward he is not. A good pinch hitter, he is. I think the same hold true for Maric.

The game has also changed a fair bit since the 90s and now its a lot more skillful and a lot more "pedantic". With Blight it was get it, kick it long to a contest and get your crumbers front and square. Robran was the big pole that you aim at across the HF area and you knew that he would at least bring it to the ground.

In modern football thats a bit more difficult to pull off with all the zone defences and ultra flooding.

Not to mention in Blight's day the bench was seldom used.

If everyone goes back and watches the 97 Grand Final they'll notice that Keating barely made it onto the ground which was pretty much the same for Pittman in 98. This was made doubly interesting as in 97 Pitto played CHB on Lowe and in 98 Marsh was playing across FF. This meant that despite having three ruckmen in the team Rehn was effectively playing as the sole ruckman which we don't have the quality to do at the moment.

 

[ruscy002]

I don't particularly agree with you on the very first sentence. Biglands has shown in the past that he is a terrible full time forward. He does his best work when he is thrown forward for a rest where he can take advantage while the defence is still adapting to his presence. A full game forward he is not. A good pinch hitter, he is. I think the same hold true for Maric.

The game has also changed a fair bit since the 90s and now its a lot more skillful and a lot more "pedantic". With Blight it was get it, kick it long to a contest and get your crumbers front and square. Robran was the big pole that you aim at across the HF area and you knew that he would at least bring it to the ground.

In modern football thats a bit more difficult to pull off with all the zone defences and ultra flooding.

Pinch hitting is what its all about isn't it? In saying that either Maric or Biglands could play a full game at FF, I referred to having the skills to do so if they had to and to also be servicable, not elite. You couldn't say the same for Sandilands, Street, Brogan, Clarke etc. You wouldn't even wanna pinch hit with most of these guys.

 

[KUNG FU]

I agree with all the counter arguments, but I think its still worth experimenting with it.