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Tiger list spat

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mad_doggy911

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Richmond
Tiger list spat
06 June 2007 Herald-Sun
Mark Robinson

UNDERLYING hostility between Richmond coach Terry Wallace and his predecessor Danny Frawley has spilled over after Wallace again claimed he inherited a shoddy list at the end of 2004.



Although Wallace said yesterday he was not blaming Frawley or Tigers football director Greg Miller, Frawley was left bemused by Wallace's continued reference to the club's list.

"It's hard to have a clear vision when you keep looking in the rear vision mirror," Frawley said. "That's my belief on where Richmond is at the moment . . . and where Terry is at.

"I don't know how many times it's going to rear its head, but it's all dead.

"I would've thought he's got bigger fish to fry and that's win a game of footy."

Frawley, who works as a TV and radio commentator, did not want to be seen as the bitter former coach but, at the same time, he was fed up with seemingly being whacked by his former club.

"I laugh at it now," he said.

"At the end of the day, he's in the second part of his contract now, and he can keep looking at the past.

"I'm a big believer in not worrying about the problem, but give me the solution."

Wallace opened an old wound on TV show Footy Classified on Monday night when he said he did not regret calling the Richmond list he had inherited a "train wreck".

"From a list management point of view it was," Wallace said. "We just had so many players 26 and above at the club that were going nowhere."

The injury-ravaged Tigers have only a draw from 10 matches this year and are favourites for the wooden spoon.

Plough sparks list spat Wallace has been critical of the list he inherited and on Monday night reiterated the absence of 22, 23 and 24-year-olds at the club.

Frawley, who was sacked as Tigers coach and now does part-time mentoring at Hawthorn, was inundated with media yesterday.

"I quite laugh at it because it's three years ago now," Frawley said. "I actually look at Hawthorn's model compared to Richmond's and where the clubs were at that time."

The Hawks dismantled their 2004 list and are now third. The Tigers also discarded players, but fall way behind the Hawks.

Frawley highlighted what he described as inconsistent decision making from Wallace in trading and selection.

"Gaspar going, fair enough, I can see that, but (Jack) Riewoldt and Cleve Hughes are in the twos and Kent Kingsley is getting a game so where's the consistency?" Frawley said.

"They're still trying to stop-gap with guys like Kent Kingsley, and Patrick Bowden and Mark Graham in his first year.

Frawley, who conceded he and Wallace were not friends, returned to the club two weeks ago to address the players about 100-gamer Andrew Krakouer.

Wallace told the Herald Sun last night he wasn't blaming anyone for the state of the list.

"I wasn't talking about anyone, I was just talking about the condition of the list, how it was structured and it was probably structured over a six or seven-year period," he said.

Former recruiting manager Greg Beck played a major role before Miller's arrival in October 2002. Although Miller was the list manager for two years under Frawley Wallace remains a staunch supporter of his right-hand man.

"I've got no issue with Greg Miller, we have a fantastic working relationship," he said.

Miller last night said he and Wallace were on the same page. "We're best of mates."
 
Spud My Bud...

Let's set the record straight first IMO....
Spud couldn't coach rising damp up a wet wall!
(Though he could get the odd win out of rubbish, which Terry can't)

Well, ol Spudley has been the first to tee off this year on Terry regarding the BS he goes on with to cover his tracks.

About time someone told Terry to shut up and coach NOW and stop blaming the past. (My point for ages now).

Terry is the Lindsay Lohan of the AFL coaches fraternity....
Doesn't now what he doing, why he's there, but he just wants to be someone.
Vague as all sh**, lost and uninspiring.

Watch all the RCG's (Rose Coloured Glasses) come out at me on this one.

Shut Up and coach Terry......that's what we are paying you for!
 

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I agree deliberate!!

Frawley made some blunders, but we've been making them for 25 years.

I don't hear Clarkson going on and on about how his list was when he inherited it. He just set about fixing it.

Wallace apparently liked us because our list had 'more potential' if I recall correctly.

Just start coaching Wallace and start getting more out of the youngsters, otherwise you'll be rated as the worst of the lot.

The coach that had 5 top 20 picks and couldn't get any to reach their potential.
 
Unlike Terry blaming the past?.........hmmmmmm
:confused:

I agree that Terry needs to get down to coaching, however in his defense he has always (even from the start) highlighted this ablout the Tigers list.

We always knew that the team would lull and fall away, I suppose we didn't expect it to be this bad though. The simple fact the Terry is now being crucified becasue he won a few games in his first two years highlights the problem with today's draft system.
 
Unlike Terry blaming the past?.........hmmmmmm
:confused:
That's something Frawley alluded to, not Terry. He was asked questions on the show and he answered them as he saw it. I think what he said was quite reasonable to our current situation.

Tiger fans are still too fixed on the short term. Who here disagrees our list of a shambles when Wallace came to the club? Well he should have employed a youth policy like Clarkson you will say? Well that's exactly what he did do, but he couldn't have a complete clean out without retaining some experience to ensure we were competitive.

When Terry said he saw more potential in our list, he was referring to our senior players. Who would dispute that? That has allowed Terry to reshape our list as he sees fit. However such a plan is very long term. The big problem short term people see is why did we do better last year? Well I don't even think Terry expected us to do so well, and we were always bound to remain in the lower echelons for a few years. We really need to give our recruits 5 good years to hit their straps, that means looking at our 2005 crop at the end of 2010.
 
That's something Frawley alluded to, not Terry. He was asked questions on the show and he answered them as he saw it. I think what he said was quite reasonable to our current situation.

Tiger fans are still too fixed on the short term. Who here disagrees our list of a shambles when Wallace came to the club? Well he should have employed a youth policy like Clarkson you will say? Well that's exactly what he did do, but he couldn't have a complete clean out without retaining some experience to ensure we were competitive.

When Terry said he saw more potential in our list, he was referring to our senior players. Who would dispute that? That has allowed Terry to reshape our list as he sees fit. However such a plan is very long term. The big problem short term people see is why did we do better last year? Well I don't even think Terry expected us to do so well, and we were always bound to remain in the lower echelons for a few years. We really need to give our recruits 5 good years to hit their straps, that means looking at our 2005 crop at the end of 2010.

When does the short term become the future?
When is a long term plan the present?

(Written and Authorized by Confucius Deliberate!! on behalf of the RFC Skeptics 6-06-07............"Ni Hao")
 
When does the short term become the future?
When is a long term plan the present?

(Written and Authorized by Confucius Deliberate!! on behalf of the RFC Skeptics 6-06-07............"Ni Hao")
It certainly isn't after 2 and a half seasons. Like I pointed to, 5 seasons at least.
 
Frawley highlighted what he described as inconsistent decision making from Wallace in trading and selection.

"Gaspar going, fair enough, I can see that, but (Jack) Riewoldt and Cleve Hughes are in the twos and Kent Kingsley is getting a game so where's the consistency?" Frawley said.

That's what i want to know. If it was the start of the year, and we were going alright, fair enough...but at 0-1-9
I think it's time to start playing the kids. Kingsley is not our future. Riewoldt and Hughes are.

I believe this issue was raised by Lyon on Footy Classified the other night (correct me if i'm wrong) and now Spud has brought it up again.

Time to respond Terry! ;)
 
Terry needs to concentrate on coaching the team with what hes got and has had.

Its our job to belittle Frawleys efforts at the club. We do it well and we dont need assistance.

Im kicking myself I didnt come up with the phrase "Train Wreck" for the way that Frawley left our list. Dont like to be shown up in my disrespect for Frawleys tenure by anyone.

Have to admit though Malthouse praised Tony Shaw when he went to Collingwood and said he would build on the work Shawy did and then went about stripping the list like a mad man to get to two Grand Finals. Does show up Wallace in that regard.
 
But all Terry did is say that he hasn't changed his opinion that our list was a train wreck when he took over.

He took over the wooden spoon team of the time so what's the problem?! Our list WAS a train wreck!

It was an honest evaluation and Terry has once again been misrepresented. He said he was not pointing the finger at anyone and he had moved on and didn't want to talk about it.




Can't you guys see when it's the MEDIA creating the spin to get a story out of nothing? They confronted Frawley with cameras just to set up an angle.
 
Danny Frawley says - "I'm a big believer in not worrying about the problem, but give me the solution."
No F%$#ing wonder he tried every bandaid solution in the book!!
 

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The frustrating thing so far this year is that we haven't had ONE player who's dominated and had an outstanding year. Foley's been good but that's about it. No one has kicked a bag and no one has come out and gathered a swag of posessions and actually hurt the opposition. This is clearly evident in our ladder position. The coaching has a lot to do with this.

Ugly signs so far.
 
Danny Frawley says - "I'm a big believer in not worrying about the problem, but give me the solution."
No F%$#ing wonder he tried every bandaid solution in the book!!

So how does he explain the possum shit he left on his desk? We're was the solution to that danny?
 
not that recuiting is any good now, but, recuiting in that period was poor with not many players coming through the ranks. they just got dud after dud it wasnt funny.
 
Danny Frawley says - "I'm a big believer in not worrying about the problem, but give me the solution."
No F%$#ing wonder he tried every bandaid solution in the book!!
That's the problem with Frawley. He uses simply analogies to reason, which is not what a coach with a complex problem (List Management) needs to apply.

Wallace answered a question on the show, simply not going back on his word, and now all of a sudden he is worrying about the past?

Stop commenting on the RFC Danny, you only hurt us and your image when you do so.
 
Have to admit though Malthouse praised Tony Shaw when he went to Collingwood and said he would build on the work Shawy did and then went about stripping the list like a mad man to get to two Grand Finals. Does show up Wallace in that regard.

Try telling that to Tony "Weaver" Greenberg who reckons it takes 10 years to rebuild a list.

It took Malthouse 2 to get them in GFs, and regularly compete in finals

Coaching is more than drafting and developing raw talent. Its about the ability to get the best out of your existing players, to make better players out of mediocre players. Wallace had that skill at the Dogs.
 

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Try telling that to Tony "Weaver" Greenberg who reckons it takes 10 years to rebuild a list.

It took Malthouse 2 to get them in GFs, and regularly compete in finals

Coaching is more than drafting and developing raw talent. Its about the ability to get the best out of your existing players, to make better players out of mediocre players. Wallace had that skill at the Dogs.

Of course if you completely ignore what both coaches started with, then it's easy to make comments like this. Who needs facts hey?
 
Of course if you completely ignore what both coaches started with, then it's easy to make comments like this. Who needs facts hey?

So compare them then einstein.

Both inherited teams that had won wooden spoons the previous year.

Or think before you post
 
Awesome name calling! Adds much weight to your argument!

Players playing for Mick in his first year at Collingwood:
Nathan Buckley
Gavin Brown
Scott Burns
Gavin Crosica
Nick Davis
Glen Freeborn
Damien Monkhurst
Mark Richardson
Anthony Rocca
Sav Rocca
Paul Williams
Paul Licuria
Rupert Betheras
Prestigiacomo
Heath Scotland
Mal Michael
Tarkyn Lockyer
Chris Tarrant
Leon Davis
Josh Fraser
Ben Johnson
Shane O'Bree
Damien Adkins

They also had just drafted Rhyce Shaw.

The following season they had a clearout similar to what we had when Terry arrived, then traded for James Clement, Jarrod Molloy, Shane Wakelin, Brodie Holland, Carl Steinfort and Chad Rintoul.

Seems in better shape than what Terry took over in 2004.

Now you of course are going to provide some stats, names, anything! to add some weight to your argument right? Or maybe just call me another name.
 
Danny Frawley says - "I'm a big believer in not worrying about the problem, but give me the solution."
No F%$#ing wonder he tried every bandaid solution in the book!!

Spud (appropriate nickname) is one of the funniest blokes going around. His book of quotable quotes would be a best seller. The fact that he takes his 'mentoring' roles at Hawthorn & Linfox seriously is hilarious ! Would love to be a fly on the wall.

The thing i cant believe is that Greg Beck, who managed recruiting for about 12 years, seems to always escape blame. The only bigger duds, spud excluded, at Tigerland during those years were the blokes 'scouting' for him.
Cant believe he was reappointed year after year.
 
Awesome name calling! Adds much weight to your argument!

Players playing for Mick in his first year at Collingwood:
Nathan Buckley
Gavin Brown
Scott Burns
Gavin Crosica
Nick Davis
Glen Freeborn
Damien Monkhurst
Mark Richardson
Anthony Rocca
Sav Rocca
Paul Williams
Paul Licuria
Rupert Betheras
Prestigiacomo
Heath Scotland
Mal Michael
Tarkyn Lockyer
Chris Tarrant
Leon Davis
Josh Fraser
Ben Johnson
Shane O'Bree
Damien Adkins

They also had just drafted Rhyce Shaw.

The following season they had a clearout similar to what we had when Terry arrived, then traded for James Clement, Jarrod Molloy, Shane Wakelin, Brodie Holland, Carl Steinfort and Chad Rintoul.

Seems in better shape than what Terry took over in 2004.

Now you of course are going to provide some stats, names, anything! to add some weight to your argument right? Or maybe just call me another name.

They are 'names' with credibility now because MM has developed them through good coaching & player development. Many were percieved as hacks prior to him beginning.
Terry is yet to develop the tiger list. He is either a slow starter or full of crap !!!!
 
They are 'names' with credibility now because MM has developed them through good coaching & player development. Many were percieved as hacks prior to him beginning.
Terry is yet to develop the tiger list. He is either a slow starter or full of crap !!!!
The ages of the players would be useful to determine how valid that argument is.
 

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