Time for ANOTHER new beginning

[danielz_23]

Final word from me: all I'm saying is that it's pretty weak to start getting all henny penny ("the sky is falling in!") after about 4 minutes of the season. A thread talking about Gehrig's problems? Sure. about injuries? Sure. But this kind of "let's shoot them all" rubbish is just so galling. I feel like I'm on the Richmond board.

I dont think my opinion is that of "lets shoot them all"... or anything like that. I clearly said from the start that we have 'holes' and missing pieces in our lineup which we need before we can consider any success... we have some great players... yes we have built a fantastic defense... I love the work of Sam Fisher... even Leigh... Gram off half back... and hopefully Maguire gets back to where he was... Yes we also have Max but I dont know how much longer he has left? a couple of years? (clarify, I'm only asking).

However I dont like our midfield group... I'VE SAID... we need a good player to get the Ball our in there. Some people has flown off on a tangent about my Ball comments... but that was only a 'little part' to the entire point I'm trying to make. Yet we have wasted a week analysing that because its a weakness in my post. Ok maybe I'm not perfect but I think a lot of the replies to my posts have proved neither are you because your (general, not targeted at everyone) arguments and posts have no substance or logic either.

Then the forward line which I also see as something that will become a big problem.

I didn't see the mullets bagging the saints on here complaining when we beat the demons by 30 and bulldogs by 50...

I think the problem we have here is that I am being long-sighted and everyone is looking at it from a short-sighted perspective.

I want the long-term success of the St Kilda football club and want to see them do these things so they are a better team beyond this week vs the Blues.

Everyone who-har'ing about oh we lose one game and your bitching... or where were you when we were winning this and that game... this isnt whats its about. We are always going to have wins and losses, I want to see us in the position of a Sydney, Adelaide, or West Coast were we are winning 80-90% of our games and are a legitimate contender at the end.

I've just pointed out a bunch of areas where we are weak... and/or are going to be weak in 1-2 years time (when Harvey, Thompson, Milne, Gehrig?, Gardiner, Clarke, Hamill, etc are gone)...

think about it guys. if you just want to cheer week to week thats fine, I was just looking to discuss with some people the long-term problems with our club

 

[danielz_23]

What's happened lately to this board? It was all so quiet and just suddenly, Kaboom? Has saintsational gone down for some time that the whiners of every year (previous year was Anti-GT Army, now it seems there will be soon an Anti-RL Army) have to come in here?

Reading this guy danielz is like reading yellow press, so poor... If you hate our players and staff so much, go and try to do it yourself. Oh, I forgot, you haven't been selected.

Its just an opinion. Be good if some people would be able to discuss it and use some logic rather than getting all defensive and patriotic.

 

[Red Gum]

I was just looking to discuss with some people the long-term problems with our club

What about the positives? There are problems but they're not nearly a desperate as you seem to imply and we should have a good crew working to correct them. Lyons seems to have a good plan and to be moving in the right direction. The system's not set up for a quick fix by turfing out half the list.

Re the Rix, Blake, Gardiner, Clarke discussions:
Consider Hamish McIntosh. Last year (and previous years) he was a total hack. This year he's starring and a major reason for the Roos recent unlikely successes. Big men take time to develop, and while they are developing they need experienced campaigners to learn from.

 

[MCG-Unit]

Its just an opinion. Be good if some people would be able to discuss it and use some logic rather than getting all defensive and patriotic.

IMO once you referred to Luke Ball as soft - then listed Ball and Hayes - and said Saints need a 'Sam Mitchell type' instead - any credibility/logic went down the gurgler

By the way do you have any positive comments to make ?? Makes one wonder whether you're an oxygen bandit after all

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Fellow Saints supporters are you now as fed up as I am?

The Saints are no longer going anywhere and will not in the near future with the current teams they put on the field and attitude.

Now lets just look back at was has transpired since 2000 -

2000 Draft - Nick Riewoldt & Justin Koschitzke
2001 Draft - Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, & Nick Dal Santo (Gram via Lions)
2002 Draft - Brendan Goddard
2003 Draft - Raphael Clarke

Now these should be the guys driving us towards glory in 2007 and 2008 which is evidently a dream!

Koschitzke obvioulsy has his 'issues', he can take a big grab and kick some goals but is no longer a centre-piece. Riewoldt is the star and may... for now... have to go to FF.

Ball (if only it was Judd!) had some good years... now he has gone down the road of Koschitzke and cannot be a centre-piece as he is targeted for being soft and having a low awareness. He wont be the major ball winner, in and under he was projected to be. Clarke a handy back-flanker... Dal Santo is all class but only a finisher and wont tackle or chase.

Goddard is another finisher who wont tackle and chase... they leave that to the 'other guys' (and so do the 'other guys' so it doesnt get done). Again he is only going to be a flanker or a role-player.

Lets not even discuss the other Clarke.

So then we have drafted slow... old ruckman... continue with slow untalented old guys (Harvey excluded of course)... and undersized youngsters who are supposed to be the 'workers'... chasers and tacklers... because we have too many 'finishers'

Gerhig and Milne have got to go, they finish a lot of goals for us when we are going good but they just lose way too many games for us. The bring nothing to the table anymore. Its time to bring in some youngsters...

That's a pretty harsh assessment.

St. Kilda have copped a lot of injuries, and still been competitive.

I reckon you're losing your rag a bit early.

 

[danielz_23]

What about the positives? There are problems but they're not nearly a desperate as you seem to imply and we should have a good crew working to correct them. Lyons seems to have a good plan and to be moving in the right direction. The system's not set up for a quick fix by turfing out half the list.

Re the Rix, Blake, Gardiner, Clarke discussions:
Consider Hamish McIntosh. Last year (and previous years) he was a total hack. This year he's starring and a major reason for the Roos recent unlikely successes. Big men take time to develop, and while they are developing they need experienced campaigners to learn from.

Yes there are positives... again... I'm looking at us from a perspective of developing into an elite club... by problems I mean, needs, lack of... etc... it seems some people cant just accept this... I'm repeating the same things again... its fine that some people want to support... but I'm just raising a discussion.

I like Rix as a Hamish McIntosh type of deal... I wouldnt go so far as to say McIntosh was a hack, limited opportunities more to do with it... thats why I didnt really agree with St Kilda going and getting a Clarke (who is only a tap ruckman and isnt very mobile and doesnt present) and Gardiner. I think Rix shows enough to be equal to either plus he has more of an up-side

IMO once you referred to Luke Ball as soft - then listed Ball and Hayes - and said Saints need a 'Sam Mitchell type' instead - any credibility/logic went down the gurgler

By the way do you have any positive comments to make ?? Makes one wonder whether you're an oxygen bandit after all

Do I really have to answer to this guys that are following this discussion?
I NEVER listed Ball and Hayes and say we needed a 'Sam Mitchell type' INSTEAD!! I said we need that type of player in addition to what we have as we are lacking it that quality/type of player.

So you know what you can do with your credibility/logic mate... learn to read then maybe contribute.

 

[MCG-Unit]

I NEVER listed Ball and Hayes and say we needed a 'Sam Mitchell type' INSTEAD!! I said we need that type of player in addition to what we have as we are lacking it that quality/type of player.

So you know what you can do with your credibility/logic mate... learn to read then maybe contribute.

"R: VOID L.Ball L.Hayes (we need a star over and above these two, a Sam Mitchell mould guy)"

Don't know why I'm bothering -> here is your quote, where is the 'in addition to' part ? - over and above can be be interpreted in this context to imply better, okay.

Learn to be clear then maybe contribute

Who are you to tell me how, when or whether to post, plonker

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Am I really?... where are the results?

We dont have that many guys out that will make a difference... Maguire is the only one that has any long-term positives for the club.

Simple really: Draft Judd instead of Ball and Wells instead of Goddard and we are unbeatable for the next 10 years. End of Story, massive missed opportuntiy.

 

[Red Gum]

Simple really: Draft Judd instead of Ball and Wells instead of Goddard and we are unbeatable for the next 10 years. End of Story, massive missed opportuntiy.

We weren't the only ones to miss Judd. That sort of thing just happens. I don't agree with the Wells Goddard call, though I would have two years ago. Goddard is coming good, he just took some time.

 

[MCG-Unit]

Simple really: Draft Judd instead of Ball and Wells instead of Goddard and we are unbeatable for the next 10 years. End of Story, massive missed opportuntiy.

Judd yes for sure - totally don't agree on Goddard - BJ has achieved as much as Wells now - with same or more upside IMO

 

[joeblow2]

I like Rix as a Hamish McIntosh type of deal... I wouldnt go so far as to say McIntosh was a hack, limited opportunities more to do with it... thats why I didnt really agree with St Kilda going and getting a Clarke (who is only a tap ruckman and isnt very mobile and doesnt present) and Gardiner. I think Rix shows enough to be equal to either plus he has more of an up-side

The reason we picked up Clarke was because Grant Thomas never rated ruckmen, therefore never put any time into them. Matthew Clarke still has enough to offer on the field to justify his spot, whilst imparting his wealth of knowledge on the likes of Rix and Brooks.

Meanwhile Gardner, somewhat more of a risk, is capable of going on for another couple of years (if he ever gets right) allowing these blokes a chance to develop further.

IMO that would be classed as looking to the future. The successful teams these days are able to play a shut down, stoppage style of football. To do this you need quality ruckmen.

Ross Lyon came in 5 minutes before the draft. Give the bloke a chance to see what he's working with, and who can adapt to his style.

 

[danielz_23]

We weren't the only ones to miss Judd. That sort of thing just happens. I don't agree with the Wells Goddard call, though I would have two years ago. Goddard is coming good, he just took some time.

Yeah I was about to jump in and say the same thing... however the Goddard-Wells is probably much of a much-ness... obviously we would love the run of Wells through the middle at this point... its something we have been trying to draft for the last couple of years where Goddard has struggled to find his spot although he is quite handy all round WHEN he is on his game.

Hawthorn were the only other team to miss Judd by the way... I just think that was made to sound like a bunch of teams missed him, haha.

 

[Fehring]

Simple really: Draft Judd instead of Ball and Wells instead of Goddard and we are unbeatable for the next 10 years. End of Story, massive missed opportuntiy.

Judd's shoulders were a concern. WC's gamble paid off big time.

BJ is coming along beautifully (I was a long-time bagger until last year). The fact that he is currently filling holes in defence means we have been robbed of his run off half back, which is killing us. He's even learned to mark overhead - in fact, he is more than competent in the air now and an absolute gun at ground level.

 

[foxy_dal]

just thought u guys might want to know, at my junior footy club we have a forward scout from freo (he watches other clubs train in melbourne) come down to my teams training every few weeks and he said that after watching saints train he thinks they are a top four side.

 

[pol06]

why the hell would we want daniel wells instead of goddard. wells is crap

 

[SAYNTS.A1]

Great post red gum I for one have had a gutfull of these so called "saints fans" who continually knock our players and in one case knocking John Beveridge. For the knockers why dont you ring the club and speak to the Coaching staff and see if any of your "wisdom" will help. The guys at the StKilda Football club BLEED for their club. As was mentioned we beat carlton friday night and we are 3-3 not too bad a start considering AL OF OUR INJURIES and yes injuries do hurt...any who says they dont huirt a club are kidding themselves. So i say to all you knockers stop trying to put s hit on the players and get behind them 100% because they will turn it around and then what will you have to whinge about?

Agree. Now as you said we are 3 & 3

 

[danielz_23]

Agree. Now as you said we are 3 & 3

Yeah it was good to watch... in the dome vs Carlton. Got a bit worried there that we could get rolled by them which would have been embarressing.

back on panthers post..

the guys at the St Kilda Football club bleed the club yes... they are also extremely well paid!!! and are accountable to us the fans and open to critisism!!

(which also leads to my pet hate... clubs pleading for membership and being critical of the public for not getting behind them... yet then some are turning multi-million dollar profits at the end of the year!! - do they send the money back? no it goes into some fat executives pocket)

I am behind them every single week... however if things arent right and/or if I see somewhere we need to improve I'm going to say it! Nothing wrong with wanting improvement! The best... because the Saints deserve to be the best!!

I dont see the problem with "being constructive" and suggestive with where we need to improve and who are the 'passengers' at our club... instead of following the standard of everyone else who-har-ing that "get behind" the club, stick by them, etc etc... and most of this is by way of always having excuses and looking outside the club for reasons rather than within.

Acid test coming up... Sydney... coming off a couple of bad weeks, with injury concerns of their own.