Tony Shaw: Bucks his best pie

[DWil6]

Bucks on Nova

This morning Bucks didn't have a lot to say except to handle the compliment by Tony Shaw with his usual humility. He did say at the end of the segment that he thought Burnsy was one of the best bodies in the club if he had a tan. Everyone loves Burns! Although he did call him an albino!

 

[bradrowe#32]

Re: Bucks on Nova

Buckley my best Magpie
Tony Shaw | May 18, 2007

SOME practices in football are fraught with danger and leave us open to ridicule — and I'm not talking about on-field practices. They include predicting the ladder before the season starts, tipping eight winners each week and nominating the greatest player at your club. All, of course, stimulate great debate within the football community.

The ladder and tipping are guesses, but I have no doubt about who is the greatest footballer I have come across in my now 36-year association with Collingwood Football Club.

I have compiled two lists — the best five Pies I have seen, and the best five of all time. As a kid of 10, I cried at the Magpies' 1970 grand final loss to Carlton, so that is where I started my list of the greatest I have seen. Here it is:

Darren Millane is the fifth-best Collingwood player of the past 36 years. The "Raging Bull", or "Pants" as he was better known, made a statement the first day he walked into the club. He was wearing psychedelic tracksuit pants, hence the nickname, which showed his unfaltering confidence in himself.

He had walked out on Hawthorn, the family club, after training there briefly, fearless and never intimidated. And he was as loyal as they come to his teammates, despite occasional lapses in discipline.

I still miss his enthusiasm, charm and character and I have no doubt Darren would have coped easily with the playing style of today.

Peter McKenna is No. 4. "Macca" averaged just over 4.5 goals per game in an era of great full-forwards and talented and sometimes brutal full-backs. Wes Lofts, Vin Waite, Ray Biffin and, later, Geoff Southby and Kelvin Moore were some of his adversaries.

Quick off the mark, tall, and with great hands, to see him take off at full speed for a Barry Price or Wayne Richardson rocket was a joy to watch.

McKenna is the best kick for goal I have seen in AFL/VFL history. The number of times I saw him kick a goal in front of the Collingwood social club — the wrong side for a right-footer — bordered on the ridiculous.

Len Thompson comes in at No. 3. A five-time Copeland Trophy winner and Brownlow medallist, he was a ruckman before his time with extraordinary agility, athleticism, skill and fitness. He played against some of the toughest ruckmen the game has produced, including John Nicholls and Carl Ditterich.

"Thommo's" palming skills and verve in the midfield was like watching an artist ply his trade. Even though he had some off-field problems with the club, he never lost his love for Collingwood and is one of the club's greats.

Peter Daicos is a shoe-in at No. 2. This man had more ability in his little toe than I had in my entire body. I know he was of Macedonian descent, but "Daics" had the sublime skills of some of the game's best Aboriginal players.

Low to the ground, beautifully balanced, he could turn onto either side of his body and kick either foot so adroitly you wouldn't know which was his dominant side. "Bad angles" were not part of his vocabulary.

People forget that Daics started as a midfielder but was cut down in his prime with a knee injury and then became one of the most dangerous and productive small forwards the game has seen. In 1990, he kicked a career-high 97 goals in a premiership year playing as nearly a genuine full-forward. He was a star.

I have no hesitation, despite the talent available over the past 40 years, in naming Nathan Buckley as the greatest Collingwood player I have seen.

Since his somewhat controversial defection from Brisbane after one season, I believe Nathan has set playing and preparation standards that will stand apart even in the future. A big statement, but the combination of excellence in both areas is a footballer's never-ending quest and one that only few greats achieve.

It's hard to believe but Nathan wasn't an elite athlete. I remember doing multiple 400-metre runs, pulling up to Nathan's shoulder and running past making while exaggerated breathing noises and saying: "I'm having an asthma attack but I'll get over it." Nathan would throw elbows at me as his competitive spirit kicked in.

I played only one real season with him and saw a future but much maligned champion in the making. I was amazed at the unwarranted vitriol directed at Nathan from opposing supporters. He was branded as arrogant and the term FIGJAM was floated in football circles.

What people failed to see was that Nathan hated losing and would play every day if he could instead of training, such was his love for the game. If this was arrogance, give me 22 players with it. I must confess that, at times, I didn't help Nathan's development in this area when I was putting wins above development.

I over-utilised Nathan's abilities to the detriment of him and the group. I asked him to fill too many roles because of my own egotistical goals.

Nathan wasn't perfect and had to learn two major lessons. One, not all his teammates had his abilities and he needed to cope with this better; and two, because he was in control of his own game, he needed to embrace the group's frailties.

Nathan wasn't a great captain straight away. I dragged him on numerous occasions when he showed frustration towards teammates. I'd ask him if he knew why and when he admitted his actions, I'd put him straight back on. Now into his ninth year as captain, I have watched him grow into a great leader, something I believe he would have much pride in along with his playing accomplishments.

It's a sad fact of our club that so many of our greats didn't experience premiership success. It would be fitting for Nathan Buckley, the greatest player of my time at the Collingwood Football Club, to hold up the premiership cup.

Shaw's top 5 ...
... Magpies ever
1 BOB ROSE
1946-55 Games 152, goals 214
Best and fairest 1949, 1951-53; premiership side 1953; leading club goalkicker 1953; All-Australian 1953; club team of the century; Australian Football Hall of Fame member

2 NATHAN BUCKLEY
1994- (Brisbane 1993) Games 275, goals 282
Brownlow Medal 2003; best and fairest 1994, 1996, 1998-2000, 2003; captain since 1999; Norm Smith Medal 2002; All-Australian 1996-2001, 2003; club team of the century; AFL Rising Star 1993

3 GORDON COVENTRY
1920-37 Games 306, goals 1299
Best and fairest 1933; premiership sides 1927-30, 1935; leading AFL goalkicker 1926-30, 1937; leading club goalkicker 1922-37; club team of the century; Australian Football Hall of Fame member

4 DES FOTHERGILL
1937-40, 1945-47 Games 111, goals 337
Brownlow Medal 1940; best and fairest 1937-38, 1940; leading club goalkicker 1940, 1945-46

5 ALBERT COLLIER
1925-39 (Fitzroy 1941-42) Games 217, goals 66
Brownlow Medal 1929; best and fairest 1929, 1934-35; premiership sides 1927-30, 1935-36; club team of the century; Australian Football Hall of Fame member

... Magpies he has seen
1 NATHAN BUCKLEY

2 PETER DAICOS
1979-93 Games 250, goals 549
Best and fairest 1982, 1988; premiership player 1990; leading club goalkicker 1981-82, 1990-92; All-Australian 1982, 1988, 1990; club team of the century; Australian Football Hall of Fame member

3 LEN THOMPSON
1965-78 (Sydney 1979, Fitzroy 1980)
Games 301, goals 275
Brownlow Medal 1972; best and fairest 1967-68,1972-73, 1977; All-Australian 1972; captain 1978; club team of the century; Australian Football Hall of Fame member

4 PETER McKENNA
1965-75 (Carlton 1977) Games 191, goals 874
Best and fairest 1970; Coleman medallist 1972-73; leading club goalkicker 1967-74; All-Australian 1972

5 DARREN MILLANE
1984-91 Games 147, goals 78
Best and fairest 1987; premiership player 1990; All-Australian 1990; AFLPA MVP 1990

Tony Shaw's column appears every Friday

 

[Coin_Toss]

Re: Bucks on Nova

To this day, Peter Daicos is the best Magpie I've seen, but Buckley may have a fair say in the matter as he has been our best player by a country mile over the last decade or so. They are both champions in their own right.

From all reports, Bobby was our best ever. He came back in the 80s, when we were "on our knees" and stepped down for Matthews, so I have the utmost respect for him.

 

[OneEyedPie7]

Good to see him writing something positive about Collingwood. Check real footy for the article if your interested.

 

[Jabso]

Re: Bucks on Nova

No Syd Coventry eh?

My TOP 10

1. Syd Coventry
2. Bob Rose
3. Gordon Coventry
4. Nathan Buckley
5. Albert Collier

My top 5 has always been the same but the rest always change
6. Dick Lee
7. Peter Daicos
8. Harry Collier
9. Peter McKenna
10. Murray Weideman

Unlucky: Fothergill, Millane, Kyne, Thompson.

Top 5 I've seen (I'm 20 so I'm only counting from the early 90s)
1. Nathan Buckley
2. Peter Daicos
3. Gavin Brown
4. Tony Shaw
5. Mick McGuane

I'd love to put Millane in there but I was too young, despite seeing many highlights of him. Burn would be in the next bracket along with S.Rocca, Licuria (2 b+fs cannot be ignored), A.Rocca (I don't care if he's never won a best and fairest), G.Crossisca T.Francis and G.Wright (pretty underrated).

THREADS MERGED: they were discussing the same thing

 

[MarkT]

Re: Bucks on Nova

I can only comment on players I’ve seen in their prime and I rate Daicos 1 from Buckley but I can’t argue with anyone who has them the other way around. I wish they could have played in the same side so we could tell how they compare under the same conditions. John Greening may well have ended up at 1 but we all know the story there.

 

[Mark W]

How much should you factor in longevity? How much do you weight consistency versus brilliance...tough questions. Look if its good enough for the AFL to name the highest goal scorer after a player who played less than half the games and kicked around half the goals of Gordon Coventry, then maybe we should start considering brilliance over longevity?

With that in mind Greening is the best I've seen. Combining brilliance with ouput whilst he was playing. Its hardly his fault that his career was cut short......We have had one player whose best was even better than Greenings. Truly a once in a generation player. Its a pity he was such a nutcase, and much as I loved him and he gave us two sublimely good seasons, his other 2 were nuthin to write home about, and I just cant include him in my top 5. Daics vs Buckley is an interesting one. Have no doubt that Daics best tops Bucks best. To me Bucks' best is not "that" brilliant, its just that he performs very close to his best over an astonishingly long period of time. OTOH, as a midfielder Dacis was very good, hell good enough to win 2 Copelands, but not flawless. He really lacked defensive skills. As a small forward I think he was the best I've ever seen....anyway:

1. Greening
2. Daicos
3. Bucks
4. Thompson
5. Millane

 

[magpie#18]

mine would be-
1. jason wild
2 craig jacotine
3 adam iacobucci
4 bradley smith
5. luke godden


all superstars

 

[MarkT]

OTOH, as a midfielder Dacis was very good, hell good enough to win 2 Copelands, but not flawless. He really lacked defensive skills. As a small forward I think he was the best I've ever seen

Personally I think that is irrelevant. I wouldn’t want to have Daicos waste his time and talents defensively. If a tackle was there to be laid he did what he had to. He didn’t have great run down pace, particularly post knee and feet injuries. His game was built around attacking damage and he wouldn’t have been quite the weapon had he not gone with that mindset all the time. Accountability is great for mortals but not all men are created equal. For the likes of Daicos it should all be about getting in position to hurt the opposition in an attacking way.

Just my take on it.

 

[ant22]

Id agree with tony shaw on bucks. Best I have seen by a mile. A long long way ahead of Daicos IMO. Injuries had alot do with this and that fact that daics had to spend much of his career as a small forward meaning he could be inconsistant in the last 5 years of his career. Daics was however the most skilled. Bucks numbers are far to great to ignore.

I am really glad that shaw had the courage to admit he probably hurt bucks reputation as a player and slowed his development by putting wins first. I have argued this for years. I believe he is probably referring to the fact that he made bucks play as an outside running receiver alot of the time being on a HBF. This is what lead people to give him the tag "soft" IMO and unfortunately there are still plenty of narrow minded people who perceive bucks to be a soft receiver. He should have always played as an onballer as not only is he great outside but one of his major strengths is his abilty to win the ball at the stopages.
I totally agree on Shaws assesment as a leader. His development in this area has been amazing. I thought he was a very average captain when he started and right now despite the fact that he is not playing this year he is now up there with the very best in the league.

FWIW the top 5 in my time(im 32) are-
Bucks
Daics
Brown(probably my favorite all time magpie)
Mcguane(his groin robbed him of his best footy imo)
Milane

Crossisca and burns are very close behind these 5

Worst thing about that list is the bottom 4 all had their careers cut short but injury or in milanes case tragic death.

 

[david_345]

Bucks' stats are a lot better than Bob Rose's. As much as Rose did for our club off the field, purely for footy I think Bucks rates higher and I think history will show that.

FWIW, the top 5 I've seen in my life time are:

1. Bucks
2. Daics
3. Millaine
4. McKenna
5. Thompson or Peter Moore. (Probably Thompson but I only remember the very end of his career)

 

[ClarkeM]

Re: Bucks on Nova

where abouts would you put shawy?

 

[DWil6]

mine would be-
1. jason wild
2 craig jacotine
3 adam iacobucci
4 bradley smith
5. luke godden


all superstars

Pfft. Sif leave out Ben Kinnear!

 

[ant22]

Pfft. Sif leave out Ben Kinnear!

we could have a list of the worst 20 players to play for collingwood and most of them would have played between 1995 and 2001 I reckon.