Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Mr. Walker]

This guy has just won the Fothergill-Round-Mitchell Medal for Best Young Player in the VFL. He's 19, 195cm, plays CHB and is a marking interceptor. Better still, he's a Williamstown player so right in our back yard. Meet Charlie Dean.

Boulevard of AFL dreams: Charlie Dean wins Fothergill-Round-Mitchell Medal

Williamstown's Charlie Dean named VFL's best young player of 2021

www.afl.com.au

Whatever happened to our “rookie a Williamstown player” arrangement.?
Did we win a flag and no longer need the cash?

 

[Zgope1]

On l

Has it though? Just can’t agree on that. We’ve underperformed significantly when we’ve played to the structure of 1 ruck 1 forward and 1 forward/ruck backup. We just so happen to have lost our best forward/ruck back up for the year too

We’ve had a top 2 clearance score differential last year and this year we were top for clearances

it is an objective fact and ppl on big footy are fooled by the anecdotal.

when it did look like exposing us Bevo adjusted and Martin’s stability helped us win the prelim.

what I’m saying is not to be confused for advocacy of the strategy. Even Bevo would rather a better plan A. But no other team is so covered on the back side of it like we are

 

[footscray1973]

So , only about 29 hours to go to see if Sam Power

Sam Power

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

can pull a ruckman out of his hat. Hope it's not the wrong hat.

 

[Zgope1]

I think ruck is more of a pipeline though - ideally, a rock solid no 1 option, an understudy, a ruck/forward and a depth option (who can plug into both positions if needed).
Stef's durability means I don't think we can rely on him as the number 1 option as much as I'd love him to get back to his best again. That leaves us with two question marks. I really do think English is a good no 2 ruck and was in excellent form in this role prior to his concussion. There aren't many good forward/rucks in the comp and in that role I think English really can be better than average next year (and his field kicking for a guy his size is outstanding).

As mentioned earlier I think Sweet is early in his development and is more 'promising' than 'ready'.
I'd love to be proven wrong but I do think the concerns expressed by people here are real, especially given comments by Bevo and Power in the past 2-3 months (ruck division looking 'substantially different' in 2022.

If the club agreed with you they’d have dumped Martin or Sweet for Ceglar

they are more optimistic on both. I think ceglar is deck chairs over Either of them for varying reasons but I can accept that that’s where we differ. Respect

 

[Testekill]

Whatever happened to our “rookie a Williamstown player” arrangement.?
Did we win a flag and no longer need the cash?

Was that really a thing that we did back then or was it just for Picken? We regularly rookie someone from Footscray VFL because they're in our system and know how we do things.


Wait, that's what we'll do. We'll rookie Glass-McCasker as our annual Footscray player.

 

[Mojorisin]

In an ideal world I would like to get back into the draft late first round and pick up conway. I think he is closer to afl level then many give him credit and he could play 5+ games next year depending where he lands. Dean would also be ideal.
If after an underwhelming trade period we some how match Darcy later then expected and shift picks around to get Conway and Dean is be over the moon.

 

[Ash1337]

Whatever happened to our “rookie a Williamstown player” arrangement.?
Did we win a flag and no longer need the cash?

That changed when the dogs broke ties with Williamstown and created their own VFL team I believe.

 

[Mofra]

If the club agreed with you they’d have dumped Martin or Sweet for Ceglar

they are more optimistic on both. I think ceglar is deck chairs over Either of them for varying reasons but I can accept that that’s where we differ. Respect

I haven't said dump Martin or Sweet for Ceglar, nor said anything about Ceglar being the only option. Just typed that 'm glad we signed Sweet.
I think we need more depth in our ruck division. Most teams and most football observers say the same thing, and up until a few days ago Bevo and Power agreed with that too.

 

[Mofra]

Has it though? Just can’t agree on that. We’ve underperformed significantly when we’ve played to the structure of 1 ruck 1 forward and 1 forward/ruck backup. We just so happen to have lost our best forward/ruck back up for the year too

Since the start of 2015 we have played a two ruck structure more often than we haven't.
Oh for the glory days of CamHead giving us decent service.

 

[gordonzola]

Martin, Sweet and English will be a good ruck group next year.

Yikes.

 

[Mofra]

Was that really a thing that we did back then or was it just for Picken? We regularly rookie someone from Footscray VFL because they're in our system and know how we do things.
Wait, that's what we'll do. We'll rookie Glass-McCasker as our annual Footscray player.

IIRC they set up a 'Picken Academy' during our alignment days.
That kind of fell by the wayside after we changed our alignment.

Picken's story is interesting. Malthouse picked him out one day (when Collingwood were aligned with them) and said he liked him, not knowing who he was or that Collingwood had first dibs on him. The recruiter said he was too scrappy and wouldn't make it and that was the end of their interest in him, allowing us to swoop.

We did pass over Dane Rampe during our alignment days (and as a HBFer at the time his kicking was terrible) so swings and roundabouts. We also stole Dickson and Campbell from under Essendon's noses in the VFL.

 

[glenashley]

I’m not happy with the ruck situation at all, it’s borderline negligent… but

Its not all doom & gloom. Timmy just has to step up next year. He’s turning 25, another big preseason theres no excuse. Whilst I’ve been the biggest advocate in the world or him playing forward/2nd ruck we know he is capable of putting in best on performances in the ruck so who knows maybe it’s time for him. Maybe a genuine 50/50 split with Sweet could be okay, will mean Sweet shouldn’t blow up too bad if he’s only rucking half a game, he’s a more than useful target forward at VFL level, big body decent grab neat skills.

I’m probably comfortable going into most games with that set up, Martin as back up, need one more back up from somewhere and Darcy as emergency.

I’m comfortable if that’s how we play it, worst case scenario for me though is we go in week in week out with Timmy one out, Schache back up ruck and Naughty by himself forward. If that’s what happens then I hope we don’t win a ******* game and everyone in charge gets sacked because it’s just f*n ridiculous that that’s even still an option - I’ve got a baddd feeling this is the way we’re gonna go…

Sweet just needs to work on his deficiencies ref forward craft and tank.

He's shown glimpses and it's the right age to breakout.

 

[gordonzola]

I mean he can’t be much less available than he was this year

What makes you think that? He played 8 games in 2020, which was a shortened season, and 9 games in 2021, a full season. Even when he came back for the finals this year, he'd already pulled a muscle in the game against Port.

getting Ceglar to replace Martin is a significant and unnecessary switchfor marginal benefits in availability and probably slight a drop in quality.

You got to be kidding.
I'm just going to say this: the main issue with Martin is not injuries. The real problem is that he's just not a good player anymore. He was bad in 2020, and bad again in 2021. He's not going to suddenly get better as a 35 year old in 2022.
Ceglar meanwhile has always been very solid. Hawthorn picked him up in the middle of their three-peat years, so he was clearly good enough for a champion team. On top of that, he's a very good hit-up marking target; something Martin has never been good at.

Ceglar is a far better player than Martin in the current year.

 

[Barking Mad]

I’m a bit confused as to list spots.
We lose Jong, Young, Lippa
Yet to sign officially Wally and Martin.
This leaves max 5 list spots
We gain Darcy and O’Brien (3 spots free)
We resign Sweet for 2 who was a rookie
Gardner for 2 also was a rookie. Both surely must be upgraded . Add in Roarke who surely can’t be allowed to stay a rookie and all spots are filled.
Martin to rookie I can see but Wally?
Where is the room to add a contracted ruck or use another pick if we have 1 left over?

 

[Dogs Rule]

I’m a bit confused as to list spots.
We lose Jong, Young, Lippa
Yet to sign officially Wally and Martin.
This leaves max 5 list spots
We gain Darcy and O’Brien (3 spots free)
We resign Sweet for 2 who was a rookie
Gardner for 2 also was a rookie. Both surely must be upgraded . Add in Roarke who surely can’t be allowed to stay a rookie and all spots are filled.
Martin to rookie I can see but Wally?
Where is the room to add a contracted ruck or use another pick if we have 1 left over?

Delist Hayes and Cavarra?

 

[Testekill]

Gardner for 2 also was a rookie. Both surely must be upgraded . Add in Roarke who surely can’t be allowed to stay a rookie and all spots are filled.
Martin to rookie I can see but Wally?
Where is the room to add a contracted ruck or use another pick if we have 1 left over?

If you want to rookie someone that has been on the rookie list for three years then you have to delist and then rookie them.

 

[Golden_6]

I’m a bit confused as to list spots.
We lose Jong, Young, Lippa
Yet to sign officially Wally and Martin.
This leaves max 5 list spots
We gain Darcy and O’Brien (3 spots free)
We resign Sweet for 2 who was a rookie
Gardner for 2 also was a rookie. Both surely must be upgraded . Add in Roarke who surely can’t be allowed to stay a rookie and all spots are filled.
Martin to rookie I can see but Wally?
Where is the room to add a contracted ruck or use another pick if we have 1 left over?

I’m not privy to the exact numbers but we can probably have more players on the main list than we did this year. You can have between 36-38 players listed on the main list (with the rest rookies) and I think we had a the bare minimum of 36 in 2021.

 

[glenashley]

In an ideal world I would like to get back into the draft late first round and pick up conway. I think he is closer to afl level then many give him credit and he could play 5+ games next year depending where he lands. Dean would also be ideal.
If after an underwhelming trade period we some how match Darcy later then expected and shift picks around to get Conway and Dean is be over the moon.

Some having him going in the 25 to 50 range. Maybe if he's still on the board we might trade up on the night (I expect us to trade up anyhow if there is still a player we like available)?

I might try do some maths on it of someone could tell me who else may be in the market for a young ruck (probably anyone lol).

Edit: might wait for the Phantoms to come out to see where he consistently falls. Will just need to trade up to that.

 

[Foxman98]

What makes you think that? He played 8 games in 2020, which was a shortened season, and 9 games in 2021, a full season. Even when he came back for the finals this year, he'd already pulled a muscle in the game against Port.


You got to be kidding.
I'm just going to say this: the main issue with Martin is not injuries. The real problem is that he's just not a good player anymore. He was bad in 2020, and bad again in 2021. He's not going to suddenly get better as a 35 year old in 2022.
Ceglar meanwhile has always been very solid. Hawthorn picked him up in the middle of their three-peat years, so he was clearly good enough for a champion team. On top of that, he's a very good hit-up marking target; something Martin has never been good at.

Ceglar is a far better player than Martin in the current year.

He played 15 games with 2 in the 1st over that 3 year period and no finals he is average at best we were dominant early with a fit Martin for a reason

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Worst trade period ever

I’m just hanging out to hear Purple And Lloyd explain to me how Dodoro won trade week once again

 

[Zgope1]

I haven't said dump Martin or Sweet for Ceglar, nor said anything about Ceglar being the only option. Just typed that 'm glad we signed Sweet.
I think we need more depth in our ruck division. Most teams and most football observers say the same thing, and up until a few days ago Bevo and Power agreed with that too.

fair enough. Have seen you and doggies discuss some randoms For that fourth developing spot. Not against it. Obviously Darcy will only probably be in 20-40 rucks contests at the level next year at most

 

[Zgope1]

Yikes.

Was more than effective this year. Remember when we made the granny with one of them injured and the other two much less experienced than they will be next year

 

[Zgope1]

What makes you think that? He played 8 games in 2020, which was a shortened season, and 9 games in 2021, a full season. Even when he came back for the finals this year, he'd already pulled a muscle in the game against Port.


You got to be kidding.
I'm just going to say this: the main issue with Martin is not injuries. The real problem is that he's just not a good player anymore. He was bad in 2020, and bad again in 2021. He's not going to suddenly get better as a 35 year old in 2022.
Ceglar meanwhile has always been very solid. Hawthorn picked him up in the middle of their three-peat years, so he was clearly good enough for a champion team. On top of that, he's a very good hit-up marking target; something Martin has never been good at.

Ceglar is a far better player than Martin in the current year.

Only when you consider availability. Martin better on field player. Ceglar would be a slight upgrade on projected value from Martin but if the club likes Sweet they’re better off weighing that up and backing in the group they had this year plus Darcy

sweet and English will both be better

Re: Martin availability, I’m optimistic for an upswing but it’s not even necessary. Sweet will be pencilling in minutes.

 

[Mofra]

fair enough. Have seen you and doggies discuss some randoms For that fourth developing spot. Not against it. Obviously Darcy will only probably be in 20-40 rucks contests at the level next year at most

I have discussed Sam Darcy with a scout who saw him at the start of this year - he thinks Darcy projects as a gun intercepting CHB at AFL level. Basically plays like Darcy Moore with a little less straight-line pace.
Given Keath's age I would be very happy with this, a real succession plan in a position that is vital.

 

[Mojorisin]

If you want to rookie someone that has been on the rookie list for three years then you have to delist and then rookie them.

That isn't the case this year. Due to covid hindering development the ago has allowed rookies to be kept for a fourth year without needing to be redrafted