Trading Ageing Superstars

[napsyd]

The Carey trade for the draft pick which led to Wells appears to be a win win for both clubs.

Adelaide got the key forward they've been looking for who, barring injury, will provide two or more years of service in the twilight of his great career.

The Roos get a potential future star of the game who will perhaps give them 10 + years.

This raises the question, will more clubs consider trading ageing champions for high draft picks and hopefully future champions?

The AFL tradition has been to allow these superstar players to finish their time with their club. At times this process may keep younger players out of a position and therefore stunt their AFL development.

But when deals like this can be made, salary caps are so tight and any little edge one team can get over another is so important, might we see tradition out the window in an attempt to build future success?

 

[grayham]

It only works in win-win situations like Adel/North.

Adel think they are one key forward from a flag, so go after the ageing champ.
North are entering a rebuilding phase, so are keen on draft picks.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by grayham
It only works in win-win situations like Adel/North.

Adel think they are one key forward from a flag, so go after the ageing champ.
North are entering a rebuilding phase, so are keen on draft picks.

Yes agreed this is the only way this sort of thing would happen.

But in the past these trades have really only happened when player or club have some sort of problem deemed to be unresolvable.

Might we see this happening simply as a sacrifice for the future of the club.

For example, can you envisage Brisbane trading a 30+ Voss or Adelaide a 30 + McLeod for a number one draft pick, or does this just go too against the grain of a football club?

Is the fading champ bigger than the future of the club?

 

[Portia]

What about Modra?

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by napsyd
Might we see this happening simply as a sacrifice for the future of the club.

For example, can you envisage Brisbane trading a 30+ Voss or Adelaide a 30 + McLeod for a number one draft pick, or does this just go too against the grain of a football club?

Is the fading champ bigger than the future of the club?

There are probably two issues at work. Whilst we're looking at how the player performs on the field, there will also be issues on the work the player does off the field.

Without a doubt, Voss and McLeod are just as influential and respected off the field with their club responsibilities as they are with what they do on the field. The cost to the club in issues of unity and morale would ensure that it's not worth trading them even if they are over 30.

However, contrast that to a player like Tony Lockett at St.Kilda. He was their star, but he was by no means a leader off the field - so they were able to trade him away and the angst of the fans soon died down. The trade worked well for the Saints as they made the '97 Grand Final.

You could probably draw a similar line to Malcolm Blight and how he got rid of the elder Jarman, McDermott, and McGuinness by sheer strength of his reputation. He later traded Tony Modra (although Modra's injuries helped Blight's push to trade him).

Geelong fans haven't forgiven Gary Ayres for the cleanout he embarked on when he took over down there. I remember he got rid of Bairstowe and Hinkley, two favourites of the Cat fans.

 

[Slax]

Trading ageing stars at a club is a dangerous business. Carey is an exception rather than the rule because of the unusual circumstances surrounding his departure from Arden St. Clubs would be loathed to trade ageing stars who are extremely popular in the club as it leads to annomisity by the fans and quite often a loss in membership numbers.

A lot of Doggies fans were hurt when Hawkins spent his last year at Fitzroy, just as Roys fans hated seeing Roos in a Sydney jumper and Hawthorn fans still haven't forgiven Alan Joyce for the way he got rid of Brereton, Tuck & Mew.

 

[moomba]

I'd give up Wells today, if the whole Carey /Stevens thing didn't happen. One of my disappointments in all of this that North fans won't get the opportunity to send off Carey in the manner in which his football abilities and contribution to the club deserves.

Wells (and I think Shore) is a pretty good second prize though

Moomba

 

[Ausgard]

I think North has done very well with Win/Win Trades for star players

Schwass for Grant and #1 pick

Bell for Sinclair and 2 Number 1 Picks

Carey for Wells and Shore

I think Adelaide can only claim it was a win/win trade (assuming Wells turns out to be a gun) if they win the Cup this year or next year.

I personally will be fine with them winning the next 2 premiership so long as we win the next 3 after that

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by Porthos
What about Modra?

What about Modra?

It is questionable as to whether he had a future at the Crows. And he was certainly never the player he once was.

Personally, I think we may have had slightly better years in 99 and 00 had we kept Modra, but in the scheme of things he would not have made much difference.

 

[The Passenger]

I'm not a big fan of trading for older players, and i'm not a big fan of getting rid (by way of trade) of the older guys in the club.

It wouldn't be too good for a youngster in the club to see some of the experienced fella's in your team who you look upto traded away. Would be very unsettling. Also, in the thought, well what if i'm still playing when im 27 or 28, will the club still want to trade me or will i be able to see out my career with the club i've played with my whole life.

 

[Malibu#27]

Its still completely up in the air whether the trade is a win win. This will all happen in hindsight.


Wells could prove to have no impact [unlikely] at AFL level (there again Kangaroos had lost Carey already), while Adelaide could find the impact of Carey to be modest.


Its a question that can only be answered down the track at some stage.

 

[MarkT]

It's definately a win for North. They get a probable very good player and a second chance prospect whereas they lose a quality footballer but a bloke that dominated their play and mindset who has very little time left anyway. As well as getting rid of the d.head they save $$$ when things are tight.

It will be a big win for Adelaide if they win a flag with Carey and a big loss of they don't. It's a simple analysis for Adelaide.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by Malibu#27
Its still completely up in the air whether the trade is a win win. This will all happen in hindsight.


Wells could prove to have no impact [unlikely] at AFL level (there again Kangaroos had lost Carey already), while Adelaide could find the impact of Carey to be modest.


Its a question that can only be answered down the track at some stage.

Agreed.

The signs are at the very least very good for the Roos.

The jury is still out on Carey, the signs in the Wiz Cup final were encouraging after I'd been starting to wonder whether we'd ever get him out on the track.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by MarkT
It's definately a win for North. They get a probable very good player and a second chance prospect whereas they lose a quality footballer but a bloke that dominated their play and mindset who has very little time left anyway. As well as getting rid of the d.head they save $$$ when things are tight.

It will be a big win for Adelaide if they win a flag with Carey and a big loss of they don't. It's a simple analysis for Adelaide.

It's a calculated risk for Adelaide. The flag would be a big pay off.

The loss of a high draft pick would hurt, but Adelaide are confident that they had three players on their rookie list that would have been equivalent top 20 draft picks in 2002 and as such could afford the punt. The loss of Johnson will be adequately covered by it's midfield depth.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Ausgard
I think North has done very well with Win/Win Trades for star players

Schwass for Grant and #1 pick

Bell for Sinclair and 2 Number 1 Picks

Carey for Wells and Shore

Agreed.

It also backfires on occasion, Leigh Colbert springs to mind.

In hindsight, North wouldn't have given up half as much as they did.

BTW Didn't Sydney give you Grant and a second round pick (about pick 30) for Schwass?

 

[noddy]

I doubt very much if not for Wayne Carey's off field indiscretion there is no way in the world that Carey would be playing with any other club than the Kangaroos, as for clubs trading aging stars why not as long as all parties [including the player] come out with a reasonable win win outcome,

 

[cjwalkley]

These are all like the win-win trade between the Lions and the Tiges...

Lions got Jeff Hogg, even Campbo is a better captain, Hogg was a grade A hack.

Tiges got Gale, Broderick and Dundas. Two very good footballers and a waste of space.

Hang on a second........that's not win - win.......the Lions were ripped!!

 

[Z_K]

Originally posted by moomba
I'd give up Wells today, if the whole Carey /Stevens thing didn't happen.

Cannot agree there champ. It was as stuffed up as anything could be as a footy fan, but we got through it, and when you are watching no.8 make blokes look silly tommorrow after just turning 18, I reckon you might re-think.

It is stuffed up that Carey will not be given the send off he deserved, but in two years when he does the lap of honour, Wells will be a 19yo gun, getting better.

As MarkT said also, massive saving on $$$.

 

[sabre_ac]

Unless the crows win the premireship this season they have been royally rorted.
Wells will be the next McLoed of the competitio as he possess skills unseen in someone of his age for quite some time.
Sure early on it was a strong draft with the likes of (port player),Goddard and Brenan to be future stars, wells will go on to be a superstar of the competition.
That said Richmond did orginally give up the pick for Johnson