TSL in 2011

[footyman]

Some of the changes documented in today's Mercury:

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/10/12/178671_afl.html

Includes:

* Reverting back to a final 5, with four weeks of finals.
* Salary Cap increase from $70k, to $80k
* Potential Pre-Season competition
* Trying to avoid clashes of Grand Finals, but keeping the TSL GF on AFL Prelim final weekend

Thoughts?

 

[whisper...]

Some of the changes documented in today's Mercury:

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/10/12/178671_afl.html

Includes:

* Reverting back to a final 5, with four weeks of finals.
* Salary Cap increase from $70k, to $80k
* Potential Pre-Season competition
* Trying to avoid clashes of Grand Finals, but keeping the TSL GF on AFL Prelim final weekend

Thoughts?

I like the idea of a Pre season comp. Maybe 30 min halves or 15 min quarters?
Final 5... finally... should have been that way 2 years ago! Final 6 with 10 teams crazy! But never going to get a fair system until you play everyone home and away!!!

 

[Norchy_pies4life]

Nice ideas AFL tas doing something right for once.

Might be better however for the TSL to have their GF two weeks before the AFL'S and not one week. Would mean we could start the season earlier and not have to compete with the AFL or any leagues for that matter. With the possibility of some big names like Aker playing next year we would be able to have a big build up and great crowds for two weeks.

 

[madmug]

Nice ideas AFL tas doing something right for once.

Might be better however for the TSL to have their GF two weeks before the AFL'S and not one week. Would mean we could start the season earlier and not have to compete with the AFL or any leagues for that matter. With the possibility of some big names like Aker playing next year we would be able to have a big build up and great crowds for two weeks.

Interesting to see the changes made by the TSL. Much of it common sense I would have thought. I wonder what idiot came up with that stupid final 6 concept.
I also wonder how much damage will be caused by dumping the reserves from clubs before they see common sense their too! Experimenting with the roster & the clubs has already caused a lot of damage, but they dont seem to care. I hope the clubs can afford the raise in the salary cap. Looking at the poor crowds in 2010 It makes you wonder. Still if we want to attract the better players they we have to reward them some how.
I'm still not confident this league will improve. I just hope the clubs can survive the BS decision making we've had so far.

 

[SDog]

Nice ideas AFL tas doing something right for once.

Might be better however for the TSL to have their GF two weeks before the AFL'S and not one week. Would mean we could start the season earlier and not have to compete with the AFL or any leagues for that matter. With the possibility of some big names like Aker playing next year we would be able to have a big build up and great crowds for two weeks.

AFL prelim weekend for the TSl finals is ok, given the AFL play fri/sat night so there is no competition on tv.

the changes are much needed. 5 weeks of finals was a joke!

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

I still think the TSL GF could be the week after the AFL GF, like the SANFL do. TSL prelim could then be Freiday night or Sunday afternoon depending on who is playing. (Two teams from the same region, Friday night, otherwise Sunday.)
That way the TSL GF gets the second half of its week without any AFL competition (unless another AFL tie happens).

 

[madmug]

I still think the TSL GF could be the week after the AFL GF, like the SANFL do. TSL prelim could then be Freiday night or Sunday afternoon depending on who is playing. (Two teams from the same region, Friday night, otherwise Sunday.)
That way the TSL GF gets the second half of its week without any AFL competition (unless another AFL tie happens).

I think that people would rather the local footy was out of the way before the AFL GF. I reckon even the players would rather be having a beer & watching the GF week unfold. Also I prefer the local GF stay on a saturday afternoon. Remember we have a colts GF as well so it would be hard to do it on a friday night. Really if they just play the TSL & Local GF's on different days (&how hard would that be anyway) & finish it all before the AFL GF then things would work out ok.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The GF would be the Saturday afternoon, it is the preliminary final that could cause a problem with scheduling and require a Friday night or Sunday afternoon. I just feel that to get clear air in the media its worth another try, the one time they tried it in the 90s other issues got in the mix - the weather, Burnie being in GF. It seems to work wonders for the SANFL, admittedly a much stronger crowd puller all year.
I do take your point though that the AFL GF is seen as the end of the footy season by most people. Then again most people don't give a rat's about local footy at any level, TSL or genuinely local.

 

[BigRich]

Some of the changes documented in today's Mercury:

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/10/12/178671_afl.html

Includes:

* Reverting back to a final 5, with four weeks of finals.
* Salary Cap increase from $70k, to $80k
* Potential Pre-Season competition
* Trying to avoid clashes of Grand Finals, but keeping the TSL GF on AFL Prelim final weekend

Thoughts?

Gee AFL Tas dont give the clubs much to play with a Salary Cap of $80k being a former Tassie Lad and currently being a ex player and president of a Div 2 SFL metro melb league club it costs around $50k to get a premiership side together then jump up to Div 1 the premier spends over $150k with the top sides lucky enough to have at least 2 ex AFL players surely TSL clubs can afford $100k and be able to entice some ex AFL players south?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

$100k ($110k with a player-coach) was the old TFL cap from memory. That was far too high fo many clubs, including a couple in the new TSL. There are probably six that could manage it, and that may be very tight for a couple of those.

 

[DOSACHOKER]

Some of the changes documented in today's Mercury:

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/10/12/178671_afl.html

Includes:

* Reverting back to a final 5, with four weeks of finals.
* Salary Cap increase from $70k, to $80k
* Potential Pre-Season competition
* Trying to avoid clashes of Grand Finals, but keeping the TSL GF on AFL Prelim final weekend

Thoughts?

Pre season comp a joke, clubs runnimng at a loss already without the strain and burden of playing a few more games in an official comp. Support staff, player wages, player availability???, what is there to gain. Most clubs make a loss on the gate and only clubs with strong corporate support and facilities (Clarence, Nth Hobart, Burnie, Glenorchy) can prosper. Cannot imagine HFC wanting to play an extra 2/3 weeks of pre season games and without corporate/function facilities (DEN is a joke) they would be in the red well before the season opened.

 

[madmug]

Pre season comp a joke, clubs runnimng at a loss already without the strain and burden of playing a few more games in an official comp. Support staff, player wages, player availability???, what is there to gain. Most clubs make a loss on the gate and only clubs with strong corporate support and facilities (Clarence, Nth Hobart, Burnie, Glenorchy) can prosper. Cannot imagine HFC wanting to play an extra 2/3 weeks of pre season games and without corporate/function facilities (DEN is a joke) they would be in the red well before the season opened.

All agreed. Probably add Launy, who run a pretty efficient operation & North Launy, who make squillions out of Hawthorn games, to the stronger club list. Burnie of course are run by the council & AFL Tas, the rest just battle on. They make nothing out of football, AFL Tas see to that. They survive by running non football operations & working the sponsorship trail as well as they can.
Its just sad to see how this comp is run & that AFL Tas are allowed to use AFL & Government money just to feather their own nest. Some would call it corrupt practise, some would just say its jobs for the boys. The question is, who monitors their behavior? Failure after failure is just swept under the carpet. (Actually its called Teflon management )

 

[JS#35]

All agreed. Probably add Launy, who run a pretty efficient operation & North Launy, who make squillions out of Hawthorn games, to the stronger club list. Burnie of course are run by the council & AFL Tas, the rest just battle on. They make nothing out of football, AFL Tas see to that. They survive by running non football operations & working the sponsorship trail as well as they can.
Its just sad to see how this comp is run & that AFL Tas are allowed to use AFL & Government money just to feather their own nest. Some would call it corrupt practise, some would just say its jobs for the boys. The question is, who monitors their behavior? Failure after failure is just swept under the carpet. (Actually its called Teflon management )

Spot on.

 

[JM71]

Gee AFL Tas dont give the clubs much to play with a Salary Cap of $80k being a former Tassie Lad and currently being a ex player and president of a Div 2 SFL metro melb league club it costs around $50k to get a premiership side together then jump up to Div 1 the premier spends over $150k with the top sides lucky enough to have at least 2 ex AFL players surely TSL clubs can afford $100k and be able to entice some ex AFL players south?

Sorry mate, most TSL clubs wouldn't be able to afford that.

 

[Kingpin]

$100k ($110k with a player-coach) was the old TFL cap from memory. That was far too high fo many clubs, including a couple in the new TSL. There are probably six that could manage it, and that may be very tight for a couple of those.

TFL salary cap was $200,000 twenty years ago!
The clubs were spending up to that to keep good players in the state even back then, then the crowds started falling away with AFL on the box everywhere, the recession was a BAD one, the memberships started falling away, money was not coming in and all of a sudden you've only got a handful of clubs that can afford to pay up to the cap and the whole thing began to be a two/three horse race - no-one else was a hope of winning - and if they did get a chance, they soon went broke afterwards.

Current crowds are appalling, I doubt whether one club would clear its matchday overheads with gate money.
Hobart doesn't, I know that. North getting crowds of 94 etc wouldn't either.
DOSACHOKER's right on the money there
We can't hold corporate functions in The Den, that's a joke of a place, hasn't changed a bit since 1969.
In the end, having a pre-season cup would probably cost us more to stage than what we'd make in return in all honesty.
Maybe a gala-day at North Hobart perhaps?

 

[madmug]

TFL salary cap was $200,000 twenty years ago!
The clubs were spending up to that to keep good players in the state even back then, then the crowds started falling away with AFL on the box everywhere, the recession was a BAD one, the memberships started falling away, money was not coming in and all of a sudden you've only got a handful of clubs that can afford to pay up to the cap and the whole thing began to be a two/three horse race - no-one else was a hope of winning - and if they did get a chance, they soon went broke afterwards.

Current crowds are appalling, I doubt whether one club would clear its matchday overheads with gate money.
Hobart doesn't, I know that. North getting crowds of 94 etc wouldn't either.
DOSACHOKER's right on the money there
We can't hold corporate functions in The Den, that's a joke of a place, hasn't changed a bit since 1969.
In the end, having a pre-season cup would probably cost us more to stage than what we'd make in return in all honesty.
Maybe a gala-day at North Hobart perhaps?

Yes with the debts incurred by clubs during the last SW league both Clarence & Nort Hobart had to sell their clubrooms to reduce Debt, Sandy Bay sold their pub & then went bust. I reckon even now some clubs must be sailing close to the wind financially speaking. Whats the answer? ( apart from a different management of the league). The big AFL dont give a rats. Its a pity that our local pollies would rather bankroll Hawthorn than help organise a properly run state league.

 

[Duff TV]

Structure of comp

This comp will never be fair dinkum until its 8 teams and injected with more funds from the AFL.

There are simply too many "Regional" players getting a game and some games standard wise are atrocious.

Yes, the standard has improved from the SFL Premier and NTFL days and yes the comp is fairly close with few blowout games, but we all know and AFL Tas knows there are 2 too many teams.

They have ditched the 2's in an effort to become elitist so I say ditch a club from the north and south, get on with it and get fair dinkum.

 

[GreyBudgie]

Re: Structure of comp

This comp will never be fair dinkum until its 8 teams and injected with more funds from the AFL.

There are simply too many "Regional" players getting a game and some games standard wise are atrocious.

Yes, the standard has improved and yes the comp is fairly close with few blowout games but we all know and AFL Tas knows there are 2 too many teams.

They have ditched the 2's in an effort to become elitist so ditch a club from the north and south and get on with it I say.

So who would you suggest goes back to NTFL, SFL Duff?

Northern Club - South Launceston?

Southern Club- Hobart, North Hobart, Lauderdale? (gee I would not want to make the call)

 

[madmug]

Re: Structure of comp

So who would you suggest goes back to NTFL, SFL Duff?

Northern Club - South Launceston?

Southern Club- Hobart, North Hobart, Lauderdale? (gee I would not want to make the call)

It should have started with 8 teams & those clubs should have been given greater development funds & assisted with a $100k salary cap. This dumb league wanted 12 clubs. What a recipe for bloody hopeless mediocrity. That says it all about the administration. bloody hopeless.

 

[GreyBudgie]

Re: Structure of comp

It should have started with 8 teams & those clubs should have been given greater development funds & assisted with a $100k salary cap. This dumb league wanted 12 clubs. What a recipe for bloody hopeless mediocrity. That says it all about the administration. bloody hopeless.

I can remember when Paul Sproule was coaching Sandy Bay for the second time in 83-84 and he was was asked about the proposed State League and his response was that a State the size of Tasmania should have an eight team league to make it a quality, viable league. Made a lot of sense then
But for some reason all the football administration in this State since have been pretty clueless starting with putting East Launceston in the first TFL statewide League of 1986. Lets look at the Presidents from 86 onwards David Smith, David Smith & Jim Wilkinson, Barry Breen, Roger Hampson, Scott Wade and of course Chief Commissioner Michael Kent who served under Breen, Hampson 95-97


Based on Population back then and now, a club from each of these regions would of been a good start.

Southern
Northern Suburbs Team
Eastern Shore Team
Central Hobart
Kingborough Municipal team

Northern
Two Launceston Teams
Devonport
Burnie

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Re: Structure of comp

This comp will never be fair dinkum until its 8 teams and injected with more funds from the AFL.

There are simply too many "Regional" players getting a game and some games standard wise are atrocious.

Yes, the standard has improved from the SFL Premier and NTFL days and yes the comp is fairly close with few blowout games, but we all know and AFL Tas knows there are 2 too many teams.

They have ditched the 2's in an effort to become elitist so I say ditch a club from the north and south, get on with it and get fair dinkum.

I agree that too many teams were entered. Ideally, from a standard and paying their way point of view, only 6 would be there. Those six could have afforded a higher cap. From a demographics point of view, it needed to be eight.
But now there are 10, dropping clubs again seems far too reminiscent of state league mk1, and the constant changes to the make up of the league. Certaily the idea of ever going to 12 should be utterly scrapped. My guess is that the likes of Ulverstone and New Norfolk wouldn't really want to join the league in its current state anyway, though NN still seem to say in the media that they feel cheated and do want to be there.

 

[Gibbke]

Cut clubs and you cut support for the greater comp.

Every team has some sort of value to add. South has a very strong junior programme, even though historically it's a basket case onfield. Lauderdale are Tasmanian footy's Bangladesh - juniors kick arse in a growing population zone, seniors still a very rough work in progress...Hobart similar in some ways. They'll all fix this eventually - South will make the finals in my lifetime, I guarantee it! Glenorchy, Clarence, North H, North L and Launceston don't have to prove a thing to anyone. Devonport and Burnie same deal, and clearly are the only viable NW options no matter how much Ulverstone dominates the NTFL.

The balance is right. Eight teams and you have finals issues (Top 5 in 8 is no better than 6 from 10). 12 is too many. Equal representation from 2 equally populated zones.

Patience...it's not the team numbers that are keeping the jury out on the success of the TSL...stick with the format, offer stability, and the money will gravitate inwards...the minute clubs are forced to defend their existence from their own administration is the minute everyone closes ranks and it all disintegrates...

 

[madmug]

Cut clubs and you cut support for the greater comp.

Every team has some sort of value to add. South has a very strong junior programme, even though historically it's a basket case onfield. Lauderdale are Tasmanian footy's Bangladesh - juniors kick arse in a growing population zone, seniors still a very rough work in progress...Hobart similar in some ways. They'll all fix this eventually - South will make the finals in my lifetime, I guarantee it! Glenorchy, Clarence, North H, North L and Launceston don't have to prove a thing to anyone. Devonport and Burnie same deal, and clearly are the only viable NW options no matter how much Ulverstone dominates the NTFL.

The balance is right. Eight teams and you have finals issues (Top 5 in 8 is no better than 6 from 10). 12 is too many. Equal representation from 2 equally populated zones.

Patience...it's not the team numbers that are keeping the jury out on the success of the TSL...stick with the format, offer stability, and the money will gravitate inwards...the minute clubs are forced to defend their existence from their own administration is the minute everyone closes ranks and it all disintegrates...

If you want stability then tell AFL Tas to stop trying to change the club structures & favoring some clubs over others. Burnie & Devonport are clearly being looked after at the moment.

 

[Kingpin]

Re: Structure of comp

I can remember when Paul Sproule was coaching Sandy Bay for the second time in 83-84 and he was was asked about the proposed State League and his response was that a State the size of Tasmania should have an eight team league to make it a quality, viable league. Made a lot of sense then
But for some reason all the football administration in this State since have been pretty clueless starting with putting East Launceston in the first TFL statewide League of 1986. Lets look at the Presidents from 86 onwards David Smith, David Smith & Jim Wilkinson, Barry Breen, Roger Hampson, Scott Wade and of course Chief Commissioner Michael Kent who served under Breen, Hampson 95-97


Based on Population back then and now, a club from each of these regions would of been a good start.

Southern
Northern Suburbs Team
Eastern Shore Team
Central Hobart
Kingborough Municipal team

Northern
Two Launceston Teams
Devonport
Burnie

The original Statewide League of late 1985 & early 1986 was mooted to have (under the Evers Report) five clubs from the TANFL, two clubs from the NTFA and eventually two clubs from the NWFU.
Clarence, Glenorchy, North Hobart were lock-ins from the TANFL, Sandy Bay were the next safest but both Hobart and New Norfolk were two candidates to be demoted.
New Norfolk had a debt of $372,000 in January 1986 and had only just staved off liquidation and Boyer Oval hadn't changed since the end of the War.
Hobart were struggling financially at the time, had been forced to relocate to KGV and their attendance figures and membership had slumped as a lot of Hobart supporters boycotted games out at Glenorchy in protest - some stayed away from KGV the entire four years.
In Hobart's case, the Tigers had been wooden-spooners four years in a row and six times between 1978-1985.
The rest of the clubs voted to go with the Statewide format, but not to cut clubs adrift.

The NTFA reps were to be North Launceston and City-South, however the Redlegs were in a fair bit of debt and would only enter the comp if they amalgamated with another club (couldn't afford it on their own) despite being the most successful NTFA club.
Launceston also put their hand up but the TFL was not interested.
The TFL gave East Launceston the nod despite their notable lack of success in their almost 40-year existence, they'd won one premiership (1967) and from memory, had last made the finals in the middle-70's - but they were cashed up and therefore, got the call up.
East merged with City-South about eight rounds into the season and the new club formed lost both sets of supporters and the passionate rivalry with North was gone forever and unfortunately still have very few supporters and have never made a finals appearance at state level.
Ideally, the Robins and the Redlegs would've been a huge rivalry that would've worked well, but it wasn't to be.

The NWFU had accepted Devonport as the first coastal club to join from 1987, with Burnie Tigers and the Cooee Bulldogs being asked by the TFL to look seriously at amalgamating to join the TFL.
Niether club wanted a merger, Cooee had a six-figure debt but wanted, by-hook-or-by-crook, to get out of the NWFU who were hellbent on keeping them there.
In the end both clubs put submissions in, Cooee wound up their own club after 92 years and formed a new club, called Burnie Hawks.
Burnie Hawks got the nod ahead of the Burnie Tigers and that really, seriously pissed the Tigers off - the two clubs had a near civil war in the town for a few years after that until they were both stuffed by the early 90's (lack of sponsorship due to factions in the town, recession, job losses, poor economy in the region) and eventually the Hawks absorbed the Tigers.
A year later Peter German comes down and you end up with a newly named club with a new identity, one that doesn't favour one side over the other, Burnie Dockers.

An interesting read as to how it all began - Click here.

 

[GreyBudgie]

Re: Structure of comp

A great article there on wikiepedia Kingpin kudos to the author, so much I forgot such as the shambles up at Burnie with the old Cooee club and the Burnie Tigers civil war remember. Reading It just goes to show how small minded and parochial us Tasmanians can be, and still are.

I remember the situation in Metropolitan Launceston well. you had the teams with history with on field success in North Launceston, Then City South and Launceston and daylight to East Launceston.

Anyway getting on track I still say the SWL mark 2 should have been eight teams as per my previous post (with a final four final system)