Analysis Umpires

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
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#76
13 yr old umpire just recently attacked by an angry Mum!!! Ban for life and $10000 fine is what should have happened. There was club sanctions but imo if you hit the average person with $10000 they learn there lesson and it's a bloody good deterrent.
See, I don't think that's harsh enough. Without knowing all the facts of the case, she's assaulted someone.

Why is that not treated as a criminal assault, and her getting jail time as any other assault would?
 

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Gethelred

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#77
What frustrates me is that we rarely watch a grand final and think the umps were bad. I acknowledge the best 3 usually get the gig however they also seem to just let the game flow...less 50/50 stuff....don't see why that approach can't be taken during the season
...

There have absolutely been complaints for each of the last 3 grand finals and complaints about adjudication during the finals series in matches concerning them. The WB absolutely getting the biggest arm chair ride for an entire season by the umpires, coupled with a titanic amount of assistance on GF day over Sydney; Richmond's match against Geelong that allowed them to play their entire finals series at the MCG rather than playing the higher at their home ground, and Richmond winning the free kick count, coupled with the lenient attitude that allowed Dustin Martin to get away with being tackled for ten minutes before he disposed of the ball and head high fend offs; and last year, Collingwood fans cracked the absolutes when Dom Sheed appeared to play on after a Liam Ryan block on Maynard, but the umpire allowed him to go back and slot the matchwinning goal.

Before that, you have Hawthorn's trifecta of flags, in which the twitter tag #freekickhawthorn became a thing. They were a good side, whose point of difference was the degree to which they stuffed around in the grey area of the rules; delaying giving the ball back after a free kick is paid against them, blocking the player on the mark, taking the opposition players out by any means necessary (whether fairly or not, often being perfectly fine with a star player taking one for the team if they couldn't get the 'good bloke' discount), with Paul Puopolo possessing a single means of getting the ball in his first few years in the game being a high contact free kick, and Cyril Rioli popularising the chicken wing tackle that the AFL is unwilling to legislate against (unless it's Chris Judd) because it's more likely to draw a HTB call.

Let's not rewrite history here. Australians are massive, massive whingers, and in no other aspect of our lives is this more manifest than in our attitude towards umpiring sometimes.
 
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lukep_86

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#79
Maybe it's in my head but it seems that during finals umps put the whistle away and I don't know why more or all games aren't umpired that way.

I get that they're human and we all make mistakes but the inconsistencies are what annoy me, particularly regarding dropping the ball/incorrect disposal.

Rule changes also make it really hard, umps should be full time or close to IMO. Not sure if they already do it but they could get to all clubs on a rotating basis and officiate during match simulations.

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thylacine60

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Thread starter #80
that put the whistle away idea is nice but why then do we still have screams of

"baaaall!"
"where's his back?"
"what about the push?"
"you paid it down the other end!"
"how about some consistency?"
"why don't you kick it for him?"


and yes, I cleaned up each and every one of those
 

BlueJet

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#81
that put the whistle away idea is nice but why then do we still have screams of

"baaaall!"
"where's his back?"
"what about the push?"
"you paid it down the other end!"
"how about some consistency?"
"why don't you kick it for him?"


and yes, I cleaned up each and every one of those
Agreed, the umpires just can't win imo.
Fans constantly bleat that umpires need to stop "making it about them" and "let the game flow" but when the umpires stop calling a lot of the softer frees they'll bleat anyway.


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Gethelred

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#82
I can't say it plainer than this: if free kicks are rare in a game of football, then free kicks are valuable in a game of football. They change the flow of the game, and can be precisely what grants one side an advantage over the other, if their training favours the in vogue interpretations over their opposition. No where is this more true than frees in ones forward 50, as has been proven by Hawthorn's dual 'If Poppy isn't taken high, Cyril's got em HTB!' tactic during their premiership years and Richmond's 'let's only ever win frees in our forward 50' approach to forward pockets.

'You paid it down the other end' is only possible when the umpires are deliberately letting things go to allow the game to flow; accusations of bias are only possible when you've provided a side an advantage over their opponents. In a modern context, a free kick is 'earned', 'drawn', 'played for'; players 'put mayo on that contact', throw their heads back, drop their knees at the point of contact, raise their shoulders to force a tackler's arm higher. You can obtain genuine advantage from a free when there's only 16 or so paid in a game of footy, so why wouldn't you play for it?

The only way around this is to pay everything, and to come down hard - I'm talking 4-5 week bans for first time offenders, longer for repeat offenses - for staging in match review. They won't do this - anything that causes a player to miss a month of play, let alone a star of the game (considering how prevalent staging has become by the stars of the game) is not going to be looked upon kindly by head office - but this would fix the problem substantially. Just, pay everything; take it off the umpires if they get sucked it, and penalise the players seeking to do so.
 

ajb72

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#83
Get off him!
He's all over him -- One of my favourites as I have no idea what rule they have supposedly broken.

The funny thing about umpiring is it is more about the fans than the players. Sure the players whinge and moan and complain and talk, but the siren goes, they have a laugh and move on.
 

blue healer

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#84
that put the whistle away idea is nice but why then do we still have screams of

"baaaall!"
"where's his back?"
"what about the push?"
"you paid it down the other end!"
"how about some consistency?"
"why don't you kick it for him?"


and yes, I cleaned up each and every one of those

I hate the idea of putting the whistle away unless it is done at the get-go of the game.

If a free is paid in the first minute that same free should be paid in the last regardless of the state of the game.
 

Opine

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#85
Can accept missed free kicks due to poor general umpire positioning. I regard that as a necessary cost of ensuring that umpiring evolves to accommodate a free flowing game; rather than other way around.

What infuriates me is inconsistent interpretations of like plays within the same game; where one umpire interprets a play as an infringement, while another regards the same play as within the rules. Or worse still; where the same umpire interprets a like play differently for no reasonably apparent reason inside the same game.

Think there is little doubt that inconsistency in determining rule infringements likely increases as the number of decision makers increases; and not just in sport.
 

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slashin_velvet

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#87
Get off him!
He's all over him -- One of my favourites as I have no idea what rule they have supposedly broken.

The funny thing about umpiring is it is more about the fans than the players. Sure the players whinge and moan and complain and talk, but the siren goes, they have a laugh and move on.
Usually said when a player is being held without the ball
 

BlueBayou

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#88
What infuriates me is inconsistent interpretations of like plays within the same game; where one umpire interprets a play as an infringement, while another regards the same play as within the rules. Or worse still; where the same umpire interprets a like play differently for no reasonably apparent reason inside the same game.
This! This what absolutely enrages me.

Someone up-thread pointed out we have a major discrepancy, something like -38 over 5 games in frees . Without doing the research I would be willing to put a substantial wager that most of this discrepancy comes form the reversal of adjudication from one contest to the next, almost always to the detriment of Carlton. What is not paid as holding the ball in one contest, IS paid in exactly the same circumstances at the next. How can this be?

Players throw the ball consistently these days and are allowed to get away with it. I watched Grundy throw a perfect fly half pass in the first qtr last week, threw himself towards the target, and then threw the ball with both hands. I was the most blatant example I have ever seen, but 3 umpires didn't see it? Gimme a break. The only legal ways to dispose of the ball is to kick it, or punch it with a clenched fist from a stationary hand. If neither of these things happen, pay the free.
 

Iamcarlton

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#92
I just don't understand how you can call something one way for a team and have a different interpretation for the other
Thats what im struggling with is it just because we are young and are still a little haphazard with our approach to the contest .
Do other sides spend sessions more time or schooling their players on how to milk a free from the ump ?
We just dont seem to get many of the 50/50 calls and then to see obvious frees for us ignored on the weekend to the point where the free kick count ended up as it did is a head scratcher .
If the umps are bad as I think all have come to the conclusion the umpiring standard is poor then shouldn't it be for both sides ?
 

Gethelred

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#95
Can accept missed free kicks due to poor general umpire positioning. I regard that as a necessary cost of ensuring that umpiring evolves to accommodate a free flowing game; rather than other way around.

What infuriates me is inconsistent interpretations of like plays within the same game; where one umpire interprets a play as an infringement, while another regards the same play as within the rules. Or worse still; where the same umpire interprets a like play differently for no reasonably apparent reason inside the same game.

Think there is little doubt that inconsistency in determining rule infringements likely increases as the number of decision makers increases; and not just in sport.
... which can generally be broken down into a difference in angle, because the umpire is on the wrong side of the play. This can go one of two ways; an umpire lets it go, where up the other end the other umpire had a better angle and paid the free, or the umpire up the other end had the worse angle and so did you but you guessed about the location of a hand on the blind side of a stoppage (concerning a high contact free). In both cases, the umpire is wrong to pay the free kick or wrong not to.

And umpires almost have to guess sometimes, such is the speed of the play and the sheer number of players around the ball. It's part of what makes staging so shithouse; umpires job is hard enough as it is without dickheads making it even harder.
 
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thylacine60

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Thread starter #99
They have no chance. When a league defaults to defending incorrect decisions on the basis of saving face and "interpretation" - then there's effectively no concrete rules.
and that pretty much nails it - I've said for a while now the game is basically un-umpirable for a zillion reasons - I will add to that, un-umpirable to/for the satisfaction of the majority............pursue me down a lane..............
 

Gethelred

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and that pretty much nails it - I've said for a while now the game is basically un-umpirable for a zillion reasons - I will add to that, un-umpirable to/for the satisfaction of the majority............pursue me down a lane..............
Why? You're right.

Rule enforcement is not a career designed to have people lining up in celebration of your career, unfortunately.
 
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