Analysis Umpires

[Gethelred]

Here's my problem, Eskie.

They'll hold this conversation the day after a game like yesterdays, then they'll have Dermott or Barrett on tomorrow to espouse how much the game has been improved by the rule change causing ball players to move the ball on faster. They are not there to hold a perspective or to demonstrate a view, or to create a cohesive message; they're there to be both an outlet for apoplectic supporters on Monday, then to reconcile them to the AFL on Tuesday and Wednesday, and to get them going again on Thursday and Friday. They're there to fill the airwaves, to sell ad revenue, but in the main they're used by the AFL to massage the public's reaction, to get things going in the direction of their choosing.

Our reactions are our own, not theirs. Misconstruing what is felt or thought as mindless outrage - which, if we're honest, is something Cornes and co trade in - does a disservice to the actual argument at hand: that the AFL has perverted and twisted the game to the point where it is borderline another sport.

 

[DangerousD]

The rule was revoked this season.

It used to be, if they take out of the ruck, they are deemed to have had prior opportunity. Now they are just like any other player who takes possession.

That would be easy, but with the umps now being hot on incorrect disposal, it doesn’t make sense, didn’t handball or kick, the ball wasn’t knocked loose. That really pissed me off too.

 

[DangerousD]

The other incident that hasn't been mentioned is Yeo taking the ball out of the ruck contest in the first quarter.

That has been against the rules for what, 3 years now?

Umpires have a bloody tough job but missing that sort of thing is simply inexcusable.

I mentioned this before and I replayed the ball up to see if I was seeing things. I’m glad someone else has seen it, because I was doubting myself.

Whats strange is that, I didn’t see or hear any Carlton player saying anything to all of the umps, not one commentator mentioned it at all, even on replay.

All I could think was, if none of the players said anything and not one commentator said anything, do the umps even know the rule still?

 

[Arr0w]

Nope - I'll direct my anger at blatant cheating when it occurs.
Enough with them being protected species and them having a 'holier-than-thou' attitude or as I call it 'small man's syndrome'.
They need to be made accountable like all others in the public eye, as they are getting paid to do a impartial job.

ps. I haven't seen this answered - what was the 50meters against SPS for?

Cheating?

Here is a thought, sue them in court, damages due to emotional stress and instability having to find someone else to blame

 

[Gabagool]

The problem isn't him, so much as it's a lack of consistency between him and the other umpire yesterday. The other bloke was probably the better ump but was willing to be influenced by the WC players bitching at him near constantly for frees, but Williamson was a hardarse who you couldn't b*tch to without him paying 50.

I consider myself a fairly big footy fan, likewise with my brother in law (non Carlton fan). We watch plenty of footy together and talk about it, including the umpires, fairly often.

I realise that you will never have proper consistent calls due to many factors including the pace of the game and where the umps are standing at the contest, but the fact that there's not even close to consistency within games, let alone across the round is insane. The frees against SPS are perfect examples of that. Then there's the non calls that are Stevie Wonder could see (wtf happened to the incorrect diaposal rule?) that don't make any sense.


I've never been one to knock the umpires, I'm sure it's a very tough gig but Cornes is right with this one, the standard of umpiring has never been worse. I probably sound like a sook but it's honestly taking my enjoyment away from the game and makes me want to avoid watching it.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SOSforPM]

View attachment 931747

Not going to achieve much but it’d be a laugh if someone could make a video of these in chronological order!

 

[SurreyBlue]

Cheating?

Here is a thought, sue them in court, damages due to emotional stress and instability having to find someone else to blame

Don't try and put words in my mouth - 'I never directly blamed the umpires for us losing'.
We have an issue were we go to water or lose concentration in games and let he opposition kick easy multiple successive goals - that is the issue that needs immediate addressing, but I do however expect unbiased, impartial, balanced decision making and none of these 3 are evident in most of our games this year.
Again, there are so many decisions I can raise after this game but can anyone explain to me what the 50 meters was for against SpS?

 

[Gethelred]

I consider myself a fairly big footy fan, likewise with my brother in law (non Carlton fan). We watch plenty of footy together and talk about it, including the umpires, fairly often.

I realise that you will never have proper consistent calls due to many factors including the pace of the game and where the umps are standing at the contest, but the fact that there's not even close to consistency within games, let alone across the round is insane. The frees against SPS are perfect examples of that. Then there's the non calls that are Stevie Wonder could see (wtf happened to the incorrect diaposal rule?) that don't make any sense.


I've never been one to knock the umpires, I'm sure it's a very tough gig but Cornes is right with this one, the standard of umpiring has never been worse. I probably sound like a sook but it's honestly taking my enjoyment away from the game and makes me want to avoid watching it.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

If Cornes is right, we need to look at what questions we're asking, and 100% consistency is impossible without robots.

Where we need to be paying attention is at things like subconscious/unconscious bias; the effect large crowds and consistent pressure can have on an individual's judgement. We need to actually do wide-ranging, long term studies in an AFL context - as useful as other sport research can be, whether it actually applies within AFL contexts is a bit spurious - and we need to have credible, publicly available copies of it that can be scrutinised by anyone.

The idea that umpires are determining games is growing, even as there has always been subtle undercurrents of discontent under the surface of our code. All fans think they're hardly done by; what we need to do is to ensure that we're not falling to confirmation bias, due to a) being a fan of a club that is adversely affected, or b) as someone/someones who dislike umpires due to the general Australian dislike of power.

Only by knowing what is actually going on can we actually state what the issue is, and how to deal with it.

 

[Stamos]

Again, there are so many decisions I can raise after this game but can anyone explain to me what the 50 meters was for against SpS?

I'm pretty sure that it was because the umpire is a ****wit

 

[Aphrodite]

Caption this ...

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[jj1978]

I mentioned this before and I replayed the ball up to see if I was seeing things. I’m glad someone else has seen it, because I was doubting myself.

Whats strange is that, I didn’t see or hear any Carlton player saying anything to all of the umps, not one commentator mentioned it at all, even on replay.

All I could think was, if none of the players said anything and not one commentator said anything, do the umps even know the rule still?

Our players obviously at that point thought "what's the point"... Teague mentioning in his presser over player confusion... didn't really see SPS remonstrate much compared to what I've seen others do in games and he gets 50. Our captains are being targeted and abused off the ball, nothing. All our good work is spat on by inconsistent calls that tend to favour our opponent for equivalent actions.

The public in general is pretty p'd by the state of umpiring at present, I can understand there are far greater pressures to worry about this season.. but if the AFL doesn't look to remediate, rectify and clarify the umpiring from next season COVID aint going to be the root cause of financial losses.

 

[skadoosh]

Caption this ...

"This is much cash the Eagles slipped into my bedroom last night."

 

[jj1978]

Caption this ...

The rule book is this big mate! There are only so many rules I can learn and I'm just relying on these Eagles players to fill in the blanks.

 

[Sector 7G]

I suspect that we are in a situation where the AFL can't drop umpires on poor performances and aren't able to review/coach and work on the umpiring as would normally occur due to the lock downs/hubs.

We will just have to accept it as part of the abnormal season.

 

[Arr0w]

Don't try and put words in my mouth - 'I never directly blamed the umpires for us losing'.
We have an issue were we go to water or lose concentration in games and let he opposition kick easy multiple successive goals - that is the issue that needs immediate addressing, but I do however expect unbiased, impartial, balanced decision making and none of these 3 are evident in most of our games this year.
Again, there are so many decisions I can raise after this game but can anyone explain to me what the 50 meters was for against SpS?

You lost me as soon as you mentioned the word cheat

Just think about that accusation for one minute, then reply

As for the 50, maybe SPS called him a campaigner, white maggot

Clearly it was an undisciplined act which cost us a goal

 

[Aphrodite]

12 umpiring decisions from West Coast’s win over Carlton ...

The 12 umpiring decisions that left the AFL world completely confused

The 12 umpiring decisions that left the AFL world completely confused

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Cripptonite]

Hopefully they have a podcast on that... would love to hear Whatley actually on side with Carlton for once.

That guy hates Carlton so much. He is probably only on our side because he hated seeing WCE keep his Cats out of the top four.

12 umpiring decisions from West Coast’s win over Carlton ...

The 12 umpiring decisions that left the AFL world completely confused

The 12 umpiring decisions that left the AFL world completely confused

www.foxsports.com.au

Among others no mention of Nic Nat’s HTB in our goalsquare or Liam Ryan dropping the ball twice in the lead up to a goal or Ed Curnow being tripped by an outstretched Shuey leg.

 

[ajb72]

tis what happens when umpires get promoted based upon age and time trial results, rather than actual performance.

 

[ESKIE]

What about the constant blocking of Levi

 

[Foxy1302]

If I could fix one thing about holding the ball rule it would be if the ball is jarred free or dropped in the tackle its always incorrect disposal and a free kick to the tackler.

3 outcomes besides play on from a correct disposal.
Incorrect disposal free kick to tackler (drop, jarred loose or thrown)
Ball held in tackle free kick with prior opportunity (eg sufficient time to dispose or ducked head)
Ball held in tackle without prior opportunity - Ball up

Goes against the AFL’s stated aim to try and keep the game flowing at almost any cost

 

[HARKER]

Mid season rule 'amendments' don't help anyone.

Reckon half these umpires are more nervous entering a game than an 18 year old debutant on the MCG in front of a crowd of 90K

 

[FRUMPY]

Not normally one to bag the umpires but yesterday was a another level of terrible umpiring. Did have a pretty big impact in the 3rd qtr.

Holding the ball is just a joke now. You can drop it and its 'tried to dispose' and play on and then get tackled instantly and can't move and it's holding the ball.

Didn't cost us the game (Cripps dropped mark and basically certain goal was another moment where we had the chance to out the foot on the throat and didn't and it cost us)

Sent from my CPH1879 using Tapatalk

 

[ajb72]

Mid season rule 'amendments' don't help anyone.

Reckon half these umpires are more nervous entering a game than an 18 year old debutant on the MCG in front of a crowd of 90K

the SPS decision shows the umpire doesnt know what constitutes what is holding the ball.

There is no excuse for the umpire in this case as it is in in the clear, has had time to move position and couldn't have possibly missed it.
What it does show is the directive to the umpires is unclear and they are as confused as everyone else.

 

[Foxy1302]

Umpire #22 has umpired Carlton in the last four games we've played (against PA, NM, HAW and WC). That's an absolute joke.

Seems to confirm what I have been wondering for a couple of weeks. The pool of umpires that are available would have been reduced due to the pandemic and the associated isolation requirements. Not all of the umpires that would be available in a normal year, particularly those based in Melbourne, would be willing to give up their full time jobs and move to Queensland or WA to umpire games For 4-6 months. Particularly when they know the AFL will dump them at the end of the season with with a “Thanks for that, see you next year”.