Uncertain Future

[Todnb]

I'm not so certain the Bombers are in such good shape for the future.

At the start of next season there will be seven (7) players 30 or older, plus no James Hird. In those seven are the topliners, Fletcher (33), Camporeale (32), Johnsons (30) LLoyd, Lucas, Michael (30). With so many young developing players, I cannot see a Premiership for some time, for when many of the young ones are ready to step up, the cream of the currect side will be gone.

And of the young ones, there are some duds. Bradley, Dyson, Johns, Stanton and Cole don't impress. The other young ones on the list are good or it's too early to comment.

The club desperately needs re-invigorating with a young coach with new and different ideas. Freshen the whole place up. Sheedy, like John Howard has been in the job too long and it's time for a change...surely.

I feel the club has recently gone down the "Carlton" path of the late 90's early 2000's, in recruiting older players (Michael, Camporeale) or chumps (Cole, Zantuck) to top up and pinch a flag whilst we have Hird & Fletcher. It has failed. The club will have a steady stream of retirements in the next 2/3 seasons. All topliners. Where is the club going to be in 2010.

 

[Jono B]

I'm not so certain the Bombers are in such good shape for the future.

At the start of next season there will be seven (7) players 30 or older, plus no James Hird. In those seven are the topliners, Fletcher (33), Camporeale (32), Johnsons (30) LLoyd, Lucas, Michael (30). With so many young developing players, I cannot see a Premiership for some time, for when many of the young ones are ready to step up, the cream of the currect side will be gone.

And of the young ones, there are some duds. Bradley, Dyson, Johns, Stanton and Cole don't impress. The other young ones on the list are good or it's too early to comment.

The club desperately needs re-invigorating with a young coach with new and different ideas. Freshen the whole place up. Sheedy, like John Howard has been in the job too long and it's time for a change...surely.

I feel the club has recently gone down the "Carlton" path of the late 90's early 2000's, in recruiting older players (Michael, Camporeale) or chumps (Cole, Zantuck) to top up and pinch a flag whilst we have Hird & Fletcher. It has failed. The club will have a steady stream of retirements in the next 2/3 seasons. All topliners. Where is the club going to be in 2010.

These players have had little impact so I think we won't miss them as much. Stanton is not a dud. There is little reason why we can't challenge in 2 years.

 

[Daytripper]

Where is the club going to be in 2010.

Still above Carlton I'd guess.

Once you mentioned that Stanton was a dud, I lost interest in your post.

I know he's not as good as the 'young guns' at Carlton like Jordan Russell, Andrew Walker and Josh Kennedy but we can only hope that he'll come on eventually to reach that sort of quality.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

I'm not so certain the Bombers are in such good shape for the future.

At the start of next season there will be seven (7) players 30 or older, plus no James Hird. In those seven are the topliners, Fletcher (33), Camporeale (32), Johnsons (30) LLoyd, Lucas, Michael (30). With so many young developing players, I cannot see a Premiership for some time, for when many of the young ones are ready to step up, the cream of the currect side will be gone.

And of the young ones, there are some duds. Bradley, Dyson, Johns, Stanton and Cole don't impress. The other young ones on the list are good or it's too early to comment.

The club desperately needs re-invigorating with a young coach with new and different ideas. Freshen the whole place up. Sheedy, like John Howard has been in the job too long and it's time for a change...surely.

I feel the club has recently gone down the "Carlton" path of the late 90's early 2000's, in recruiting older players (Michael, Camporeale) or chumps (Cole, Zantuck) to top up and pinch a flag whilst we have Hird & Fletcher. It has failed. The club will have a steady stream of retirements in the next 2/3 seasons. All topliners. Where is the club going to be in 2010.

Worry about your club mate, you are in a far worse state. And the high draft picks you guys get are just wasted by that joke of a recruiting manager.

 

[Longy413]

I'd be interested to know how many clubs have drafted more kids since 2002 than Essendon...

Look it up, you might be suprised.

 

[johnmason]

Fair comment but i dont know if you guys are serious about stanton?? he is up there with the best 5 players at our club. Dominates possesions, has a penetrating kick and runs more than half our team put together.
When you say he is not as good as
'young guns' at Carlton like Jordan Russell, Andrew Walker and Josh Kennedy i laugh because i would like to see them do anywhere near as much in their second year as stants did.
Good luck to them gettin the highest brownlow votes for their club and comin 3rd in the B & F
but whateva i guess he is crap....

 

[B-Bomber]

I think we need to give the OP some credit -- I've heard far, far stupider stuff come out of Carlton supporters mouths. And aside from underselling Stanton and over selling the johnsons recent contributions I think that he does have a point.

For me, I can see us going either way in the next year -- I would certainly not be surprised if we are less successful next year then this year. However, if we get some good luck with injuries, and trading/drafting we have some great potential in our list that has the ability to be a strong side in the future.

 

[boms]

Oh geez, The 2 Johnsons we can easily replace they arent that good anymore. Camporeale, his been crap. Fletcher - Ryder Lucas - Gumbleton that leaves FF - Lloyd and FB - Michael we have about 3-4 years to replace Lloyd we can easily do that and we have about 2 years to replace Michael (Dick, Chartes, Lee??) Stop bloody worrying.

Our future midfield will be class along with our future half backs - half forwards - Watson Monfries Hislop Stanton Winderlich Lovett Lovett-Murray Welsh Dempsey Houli Jetta Slattery Nash etc

 

[thebigboy]

Just another Ill-informed poster from another team.

I was hopeing all this would have finished now that school hols were done.

 

[Jono B]

Oh geez, The 2 Johnsons we can easily replace they arent that good anymore. Camporeale, his been crap. Fletcher - Ryder Lucas - Gumbleton that leaves FF - Lloyd and FB - Michael we have about 3-4 years to replace Lloyd we can easily do that and we have about 2 years to replace Michael (Dick, Chartes, Lee??) Stop bloody worrying.

Our future midfield will be class along with our future half backs - half forwards - Watson Monfries Hislop Stanton Winderlich Lovett Lovett-Murray Welsh Dempsey Houli Jetta Slattery Nash etc

From what I have heard from King James and Ant in the bomber spotting board Neagle sounds like a natural replacement for Lloyd upon retirement.

 

[boms]

From what I have heard from King James and Ant in the bomber spotting board Neagle sounds like a natural replacement for Lloyd upon retirement.

Sorry forgot about Neagle, Hope this kid turns out to be a classy full forward, Also hope we draft Dainher, he would be another kpp backman we can develop


Neagle - Watson - Dainher
gotta love it lol

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Fair comment but i dont know if you guys are serious about stanton?? he is up there with the best 5 players at our club. Dominates possesions, has a penetrating kick and runs more than half our team put together.
When you say he is not as good as
'young guns' at Carlton like Jordan Russell, Andrew Walker and Josh Kennedy i laugh because i would like to see them do anywhere near as much in their second year as stants did.
Good luck to them gettin the highest brownlow votes for their club and comin 3rd in the B & F
but whateva i guess he is crap....

When someone puts this face next to a sentence

It means they are being sarcastic.

Of course Stanton is heaps better than Kennedy, Walker and Russell

 

[Margim]

I'm not so certain the Bombers are in such good shape for the future.

At the start of next season there will be seven (7) players 30 or older, plus no James Hird. In those seven are the topliners, Fletcher (33), Camporeale (32), Johnsons (30) LLoyd, Lucas, Michael (30). With so many young developing players, I cannot see a Premiership for some time, for when many of the young ones are ready to step up, the cream of the currect side will be gone.

And of the young ones, there are some duds. Bradley, Dyson, Johns, Stanton and Cole don't impress. The other young ones on the list are good or it's too early to comment.

The club desperately needs re-invigorating with a young coach with new and different ideas. Freshen the whole place up. Sheedy, like John Howard has been in the job too long and it's time for a change...surely.

I feel the club has recently gone down the "Carlton" path of the late 90's early 2000's, in recruiting older players (Michael, Camporeale) or chumps (Cole, Zantuck) to top up and pinch a flag whilst we have Hird & Fletcher. It has failed. The club will have a steady stream of retirements in the next 2/3 seasons. All topliners. Where is the club going to be in 2010.

Completely wrong on Stanton, wait and see on Bradley and Dyson, Fletcher and Lloyd will still be valuable 3 years from now (Fletch is an evergreen freak, Lloyd will jsut go back and sit at full forward), fair calls on some of the rest, although Lucas we'll have to see. His effort and value cannot be discounted, although I'm not 100% sure he'll be able to keep up with the pace of the game.

 

[4#Didak#4]

You probably hate me saying this but I see a lot of the 2006 Pies in the 2007 bombers. Which is why I tipped the Bombers (& Brissy & Port) for the 8 at the start of the year.

In this I mean last year the Pies surprised most & were written off as garbage at the start of the 2006 year, but we got a lot of guys back from injury & had blooded a lot of younger guys the year before thru necessity so come 2006 we had a great start although faded towards the end especially the young fellas, plus injuries tested our depth. But we made the finals & got more young guys in the side (like Pendles & Thomas).

Come 2007 we were written off again mainly as too slow in the middle (based on the Dogs blitz in the final), most tipped us bottom 4. Sadly even I was not expecting a top 8 finish. But as its turned out the last 2 years have set this year up well even with a lot of players out.

My point being that the bomber are on a similar path (just a year behind), so do not think that you will drop away again next year, ryder,stanton,davey, lovett, gumbleton,monfries will all be better for the recent few years & step up, then throw in the experienced players & bingo its all good.

 

[DaSawx]

Just another Ill-informed poster from another team.

I was hopeing all this would have finished now that school hols were done.

Well, not every adult is the full quid either

 

[ant555]

I'd be interested to know how many clubs have drafted more kids since 2002 than Essendon...

Look it up, you might be suprised.

Exactly , serious i am very tired of chumps coming in and always saying we top up with too many old players rather than use kids.

 

[D Mitchell]

Todnb's proposition is supported by the middle paragraphs of Stephen Rielly's article in this morning's Age, from the 6th on but particularly the 8th. Whether Essendon has been drafting youth or trading older players is a bit of a side issue. The thrust of Rielly's article is to challange Sheedy's claim that Essendon will be thereabouts in 2010, which is really what Todnb is saying.

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/e...g-sheedy/2007/07/18/1184559866682.html?page=2

 

[stander]

I'd be interested to know how many clubs have drafted more kids since 2002 than Essendon...

Look it up, you might be suprised.

Maybe thats because the Dons had to replace the duds thay kept picking up.

I don't think they genuinely tried to build a list with a youth only policy.

 

[Longy413]

I don't think they genuinely tried to build a list with a youth only policy.

No club ever has.

 

[stander]

No club ever has.

Clarkson in recent years ?

 

[Longy413]

Clarkson in recent years ?

Has he built a list yet, or is he building one?

And didn't they add Gilham (although he was only 20) and Guerra from other clubs.

And are Hawthorn the benchmark?
Or are Brisbane, Port Adelaide, Sydney and West Coast?

 

[Daytripper]

Has he built a list yet, or is he building one?

And didn't they add Gilham (although he was only 20) and Guerra from other clubs.

And are Hawthorn the benchmark?
Or are Brisbane, Port Adelaide, Sydney and West Coast?

I agree.

Who is more important to Hawthorn at the moment ?

Mitchell, Hodge, Ladson, Boyle, Sewell, Croad, Campbell or
Franklin, Roughead, Birchill, Lewis and Ellis.

Hawthorn have done exceptionally well with their late picks (Mitchell/Boyle) as well as with their rookies (Sewell, McGlynn).
Have also traded well to get guys like Smith, Jacobs, Croad, Guerra and Gilham

The drafting back in 2001/2002, their astute rookie picks and good trading have more to do with their rise this season than any top 20 draft picks from the last few seasons.

Its a misconception that hawthorn have purely embarked on a youth policy.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Todnb's proposition is supported by the middle paragraphs of Stephen Rielly's article in this morning's Age, from the 6th on but particularly the 8th. Whether Essendon has been drafting youth or trading older players is a bit of a side issue. The thrust of Rielly's article is to challange Sheedy's claim that Essendon will be thereabouts in 2010, which is really what Todnb is saying.

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/e...g-sheedy/2007/07/18/1184559866682.html?page=2

So basically Todnb..... and I gather your summation is all the kids we have drafted are going to turn out as duds?

The article states that our improvement apart from Ryder and Davey has come from the old timers. What about Stanton and Winderlich? Nash? Jetta in the first few games? Laycock? Watson? Slattery? Lovett?

These are guys at the start of their careers and what does it matter if some were at the club 4 years ago. They were only babies. All are in their early 20's.

By 2010 they should all be in their prime.

We then have the likes of Jetta, Hislop, Houli, Dempsey, Reimers who are going to provide us with the pace and run.

Our KPP stocks to replace the champions also looks good with Ryder, Gumbleton, Neagle, Lee, Bradley, Johns, Laycock.

Poorly researched article along with the poorly researched trolls.

 

[ant555]

Todnb's proposition is supported by the middle paragraphs of Stephen Rielly's article in this morning's Age, from the 6th on but particularly the 8th. Whether Essendon has been drafting youth or trading older players is a bit of a side issue. The thrust of Rielly's article is to challange Sheedy's claim that Essendon will be thereabouts in 2010, which is really what Todnb is saying.

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/e...g-sheedy/2007/07/18/1184559866682.html?page=2

No it wasnt only what Tobnb is saying.He also had the following..

I feel the club has recently gone down the "Carlton" path of the late 90's early 2000's, in recruiting older players (Michael, Camporeale) or chumps (Cole, Zantuck) to top up and pinch a flag whilst we have Hird & Fletcher. It has failed. The club will have a steady stream of retirements in the next 2/3 seasons. All topliners. Where is the club going to be in 2010

Or in other words like Carlton we have tried to get too many older players like the Blues did and lost focus on developing the kids.
How we are in 2010 is a crystal ball question anyway. How can anyone acurately predict what we will get out of the start of this draft , what may happen in the trade room (probably not much if trends continue but who knows) and even if we dont have some sort of free agency by then.
I know you dont think we will do any good because of past discussions. At the end of last season (after the draft) when a few of us suggested we could improve you questioned if we had really bottomed out and it was likely that we would continue to perform poorly. After two round this year you said that our improvement was on the back of the young kids and when they dropped off we would fall back. In the end it wasnt until we got a few injuries and suspensions did our form fall away. Are we a good side, well no we are not.Have we improved on last year, IMO i think we have. Will it hurt when Hird, Lloyd,Fletcher and Lucas are gone , yes of course it will. What could we have done differently ? well this year not much unless someone is suggesting that we should have offered Lloyd and Lucas for trade.
A number of us could see what was going to happen in 2005/2006 a couple of years before it happened but im not really sure how much could have been done about it given the poor results of our drafting in the 1999 to 2001 drafts and the fact that several long term projects where taken in the 2002 draft. At the end of 2002 Blumfield,Caracella and Heffernan all went but in return only McPhee shone out of those who came in. over the next couple of seasons there where sevral players who came to the club that also didnt help fill the gaps. Guys like Cupido, Alvey,Zantuck etc who where reasonably young but where not up to it. It pretty much left us in the hole we have found ourselves in. Short of trading both Johnsons, and maybe Lucas or Fletcher in 2003 there wasnt much more we could do. Sheedy and the recruiters made some very poor choices for 3 or 4 years and we where stuck with what we had. On recruiting alone Kev should have been given the boot at the end of his last contract for dropping the ball so badly.
Now we get to where will we be in 2010. Well i will get called a bit biased becasue i support Essendon but i dont think we are as bad as some people think. Yes we have some work to do with our list and no i dont think we are currently in a position where we are going to be a genuine top four side just yet but things can turn around quickly.
To start with before last season ended we ramped up spending in our recruiting department and it will continue to grow. The results should see us get our best evaluation of the draftee's that we have ever had since drafting started. The club has realised it has sat on hit hands for a few seasons and the result of that was increased spending in the recruting department, fitness department and in the area of player development in the caoching department.I think we will see the results in the player development come to hand next year as a number of our younger midfielders have performed at very good levels consistantly with Bendigo this year.
As for the list.
Well out of the 2002 draft things are starting to turn around. Watson has been good. Winderlich has been very good this year and with Laycock finally injury free he has been improving every week.
From 2003 we are not too badly off. Stanton has continued on to be a very good midfielder for us. He isnt a super star but he is good. We are starting to see what Nash is able to do. Dyson is still battling away and hasnt really stamed himself but he was pick number 44 so it isnt like he is a wasted early pick which leads us to Bradley. He has not come on at all as a defender and to nearly everyone he is shot and looks like being a wasted pick. It does look likely that he will turn out a dud pick for us at no 6 but if we didnt take him we would have taken Tenace and then a tall at pick 13 and not ended up with Stanton which would still have been a loss IMO. Bradley is showing signs of life as a CHF for Bendigo over the last 8 weeks or so so there is still a minute chance he can still come good for us.
The 2004 draft brought us Monfries and Slattery who are both playing seniors currently and are improving but have a way to go yet. It also gave us Lee who becasue of several different injuries has been a disapointment to date.
In 2005 Ryder , Dempsey,Lonergan and Cole came on board. Lovett and NLM also came off the rookie list. So far out of the draftess only Ryder has really come good. Dempsey has had no chance this year due to consistant hammy problems. Lonergan hasnt been able to show the levels of improvement needed yet. Cole has been a waste.
Then we get to last year where Gumbleton,Jetta,Hislop,Davey,Houli and Reimers where drafted. I have to say im very happy with this lot. Davey has been great. Jetta ,Houli and Hislop have all had senior games. Remiers has been very strong at Bendigo and Gumbleton has had a few good games before his hammy injury put him out for 6 weeks.
At the end of the day i think we have some good talent to work with. yes we need some more to fill some gaps but i dont see it as being all doom and gloom like some predict.

 

[Jono B]

The impact our youth has had on the wins has been significant yet largely unnoticed by the media. A lot of focus fell on Hird for the comeback against Richmond when really Watson's dominance in the centre clearances was just as significant. In the West Coast game Lucas and Hird was focused on meanwhile Slattery held Kerr to 3 kicks and Winderlich was fantastic in providing a link man all day. Also Laycock was a match winner against Melbourne. There are many other examples but other than that our youth has put in good week in week out performances.
The fact is few teams can claim they don't rely on senior players. Even Collingwood who hae been touted as one of the great young teams has relied on a midfield core which is mainly over 26.
The logic shown by Reilly in his article is some of the worst I have seen. "that 14 of the team when it last resembled something like Essendon's best 22 — the combination that met Geelong in round 14 — were on an Essendon list in 2003.". For comparison Hawthorn had 12.