Undisputed Premiers

[Blackas87]

Melbourne’s premiership this year is the first since Hawthorn 2013 to come from the minor premier. Both Hawthorn and Melbourne won all their finals on the way to becoming premiers.

I’ve gone through the record books to see how many times the minor premier won the premiership and how many did it winning all finals where their premiership can’t be disputed.

Premierships after being Minor Premier

• Carlton: 11
• Essendon: 11
• Collingwood: 9
• Melbourne: 9
• Geelong: 7
• Hawthorn: 6
• Richmond: 5
• Fitzroy: 3
• South Melbourne/Sydney: 2
• West Coast: 2
• Port Adelaide: 1
• Adelaide: 0
• Brisbane: 0
• Fremantle: 0
• Gold Coast: 0
• Greater Western Sydney: 0
• North Melbourne: 0
• St Kilda: 0
• Western Bulldogs: 0
• University: 0

Premierships winning all finals after being Minor Premiers

• Carlton: 9 (1906, 1907, 1908, 1938, 1947, 1979, 1981, 1987, 1995)
• Melbourne: 7 (1939, 1955, 1956, 1959, 1960, 1964, 2021)
• Geelong: 6 (1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2022)
• Essendon: 5 (1911, 1950, 1962, 1985, 2000)
• Hawthorn: 5 (1961, 1971, 1988, 1989, 2013)
• Richmond: 3 (1934, 1967, 1974)
• Collingwood 2 (1903, 1927)
• Fitzroy: 2 ( 1899, 1904)
• South Melbourne/Sydney: 1 (1918)
• West Coast: 1 (1994)
• Port Adelaide: 1 (2004)
• Adelaide: 0
• Brisbane: 0
• Fremantle: 0
• Gold Coast: 0
• Greater Western Sydney: 0
• North Melbourne: 0
• St Kilda: 0
• Western Bulldogs: 0
• University: 0

3 premiers won the minor premiership with draws and no one defeating them during the finals series. Could also be counted as no one can claim superiority.

• 1928 Collingwood drew with Melbourne in the semi final replayed the following week.
• 1946 Essendon drew Collingwood in the semi final which was replayed the following week.
• 2010 Collingwood drew with St Kilda in the Grand Final replayed the following week.

 

[Del165198]

Is Melbourne the best premiership team ever? Some are saying yes.

 

[Brick Loosener]

Is Melbourne the best premiership team ever? Some are saying yes.

Some people should lay off the meth.

 

[Rotayjay]

I've never heard anyone disputing a premiership because they weren't minor premiers or lost one of their finals matches.

 

[Del165198]

I've never heard anyone disputing a premiership because they weren't minor premiers or lost one of their finals matches.

Every team that wins the flag is "undisputed". There's no competing league of a similar standard where you could claim there was a better team. I don't see anyone saying Glenelg would beat melbourne

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Every team that wins the flag is "undisputed". There's no competing league of a similar standard where you could claim there was a better team. I don't see anyone saying Glenelg would beat melbourne

On bigfooty every team has an astrix on their premiership one reason or another. I guess not being minor premiers is another one for most.

 

[HairyO]

Every team that wins the flag is "undisputed". There's no competing league of a similar standard where you could claim there was a better team. I don't see anyone saying Glenelg would beat melbourne

Collingwood in the 1920s and 1930 would lose Grand Finals, or not even qualify for Grand Finals but then due to the ridiculous rules they had the VFL set up were allowed to challenge the Grand Final winner in a 2nd chance game. So I would say you can very much dispute some flags.

Also, who even knows what rules were in place pre WW1. There is limited archival information. Especially if you go back even before the 1900s rolled around.

But in the more modern era you have the Carlton win over Collingwood with the ball being out of bounds.

 

[BF Tiger]

Surely this is proof that it was a weak year this year.




Melbourne fans - I don’t believe that, but get used to your premiership being devalued by nuffies.

 

[juss]

Every premier is undisputed.

The nature of our competition is that ladder position once finals hit doesn't really get celebrated at all. It's sort if meaningless.

It's not like the Premier league where they would celebrate qualifying for the Champions League finishing 3rd, or NFL celebrating be division champs or conference champs.

 

[Hojuman]

Golden Premiership Cups;

North Melbourne 1

Adelaide 0
Brisbane 0
Carlton 0
Collingwood 0
Essendon 0
Fremantle 0
Geelong 0
Gold Coast 0
GWS 0
Hawthorn 0
Melbourne 0
Port Adelaide 0
Richmond 0
St. Kilda 0
Sydney 0
Western Bulldogs 0
West Coast 0

 

[Shane Heard]

Surely this is proof that it was a weak year this year.




Melbourne fans - I don’t believe that, but get used to your premiership being devalued by nuffies.

No season was as weak as 2000

That’s just fact and doesn’t need back up evidence from any Essendon hater.

 

[Blackas87]

Is Melbourne the best premiership team ever? Some are saying yes.

They’re pretty good, not 119 points good though.

 

[Del165198]

They’re pretty good, not 119 points good though.

100-7 in a quarter and a half is worse than 119

 

[Johnny Karate]

Surely this is proof that it was a weak year this year.




Melbourne fans - I don’t believe that, but get used to your premiership being devalued by nuffies.

I’ve always found this phenomenon interesting and am bloody pleased to be part of it. Some imbeciles are already posting about tanking.

 

[Shooter#17]

Every team that wins the flag is "undisputed". There's no competing league of a similar standard where you could claim there was a better team. I don't see anyone saying Glenelg would beat melbourne

Now they are but not always the case, the early years of the VFL had the right of reply rule for minor premiers that were knocked out. Duee to this many of the VFL flags pre 1930 are very much disputed.

 

[Waspy79]

Winning a grand final on neutral or away territory will always hold more weight than a grand final won on your home ground when you did not earn the right to host.

This makes the 1997, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2012, 2018, 2020 and 2021 premiers rather special, but does not necessarily discount the merits of 2000, 2007 and 2019, for example.

The most disputed recent premiers would be 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017. None of these were earned in a legitimately fair and reasonable manner.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Another more arbitrary way of deciding the greatest premier of all is to look at those which won their last 12 games.

Total Margin	Year	Club
471	2019	Rich
463	1950	Ess
453	2001	Bris
418	1995	Carl
365	1937	Geel
300	1961	Haw
223	1918	Syd
220	1903	Coll

 

[Engimal v3]

Golden Premiership Cups;

North Melbourne 1

Adelaide 0
Brisbane 0
Carlton 0
Collingwood 0
Essendon 0
Fremantle 0
Geelong 0
Gold Coast 0
GWS 0
Hawthorn 0
Melbourne 0
Port Adelaide 0
Richmond 0
St. Kilda 0
Sydney 0
Western Bulldogs 0
West Coast 0

This was my go-to argument in high school with my mates lol

 

[HairyO]

They’re pretty good, not 119 points good though.

We flogged Melbourne by 96 points in 1988. That was pretty good.

 

[Kwality]

I've never heard anyone disputing a premiership because they weren't minor premiers or lost one of their finals matches.

The Crows b2b wasnt an easy run. Setbacks add to the achievement, not that it any way understates the effort of Melbourne or the Tigers in the 'Covid era'.

 

[Fat Tony!]

In terms of overall finals dominance, the 2021 Melbourne premiership stacks up with the greats. The 2021 Melbourne Premiership was delivered with a finals percentage of 213%, which was below 1960 Melbourne - 304%, 1927 Collingwood - 228%, 2007 Geelong - 227% and 1988 Hawthorn - 215%. It was ahead of the 2000 Essendon - 201%, 2019 Richmond - 199%, 1964 Melbourne - 189%, 1965 Essendon - 187% and 2017 Richmond - 181%.

In terms of avoiding knockout, the narrowest finals margin for the 2021 Melbourne premiership was 33 points, which was below 2000 Essendon @ 45 points, 1960 Melbourne @ 40 points, 2017 Richmond @ 36 points and 1965 Essendon @ 35 points.

On a dual measure (overall finals dominance and avoiding knockout), the 2021 Melbourne finals performance was below only 1960 Melbourne and on par with 2000 Essendon and 1988 Hawthorn. Coincidently, all of those teams also finished Minor Premiers.

 

[Blackas87]

We flogged Melbourne by 96 points in 1988. That was pretty good.

Yeah very good team. Minor premier, won all finals. Undisputed

 

[Xtreme]

Is Melbourne the best premiership team ever? Some are saying yes.

Settle down

They were the best team of 2021 by far, but the best premiership team ever ? Only time will tell! Can they keep the core group together and keep improving to the point where they give themselves a shot at footy history (back to back, threepeat etc).

 

[adammania9]

Collingwood in the 1920s and 1930 would lose Grand Finals, or not even qualify for Grand Finals but then due to the ridiculous rules they had the VFL set up were allowed to challenge the Grand Final winner in a 2nd chance game. So I would say you can very much dispute some flags.

Also, who even knows what rules were in place pre WW1. There is limited archival information. Especially if you go back even before the 1900s rolled around.

But in the more modern era you have the Carlton win over Collingwood with the ball being out of bounds.

The old challenge system is simply a product of a bygone era. It shouldn’t generate the discussion that it does. It was just another finals system that rewarded the minor premier more than any system that’s come since.

 

[GeelongFTW]

100-7 in a quarter and a half is worse than 119

its really not. The game was lost at 3 quarter time so Melbourne just piled on the goals when WB gave up. Port got spanked from the very start and Geelong let the foot of the accelerator towards the end.