Unrealistic Expectations

[WaynesWorld19]

Have been thinking for a while about the Meesen situation (still not my favourite discussion topic) about the expectations of players picked up in the draft.

These players, normally first rounders, are so heralded and built up pre-draft....do they have unrealistic expectations:

1. To play AFL footy immediately

2. To not have to do apprenticeships ......"I do not have anything to learn, I'm a champion under age player"

3. Demand the big money early in their careers in line with the above thinking

4. Become disenchanted if challenged or forced to play in VFL/SANFL

Do players like Meesen who see their draft counterparts play AFL in year one with lowly and less professional Victorian clubs become disenchanted when they are forced to do up to 2 year apprenticeships in the SANFL.

Reilly in an interview I read said he harboured some thoughts along those lines until he got on the AFL field and realised how much he had to learn....but some would still "demand" AFL games due to their U18/draft status???

This article simply reinforced some thoughts:

Dons sound out Franklin

Stephen Rielly
July 12, 2006

Lance Franklin of Western Australia in action during l AFL draft camp at the Australian Institute of Sport in 2004.
Photo: Ryan Pierse

THE recruiting drive Essendon coach Kevin Sheedy recently vowed to launch on the competition has led the Dons to the door of Hawthorn teenager Lance Franklin.

Franklin, 19, falls out of contract at the end of the season and has been unable to negotiate a new deal with the Hawks, who are believed to have pitched a two-year offer worth about $200,000 a season.

Franklin's manager, Wayne Loxley, yesterday confirmed interest from the Dons but denied that a formal three-year offer worth almost $800,000 had been put.

"It's not true to say that there is a formal offer on the table," Loxley said. "The nature of the discussion with them has been informal. They (Essendon) have spoken to us, yes, but I'd add that they aren't the only ones. Until the negotiations with Hawthorn reach a conclusion, there is nothing to consider."

Loxley said he met Hawthorn officials late last month and expected to meet the club again within the next fortnight.

Hawthorn's head of list management, Chris Pelchen, described Franklin as a "key member" of the 2004-05 intake of draftees who form the centrepiece of the club's rebuilding program.

"Lance is a required player and we're working to recontract him," Pelchen said.

The Hawks and Franklin have not been without problems. In 18 months, Franklin repeatedly has been brought before the leadership group for breaches of discipline and has been assigned an after-hours chaperone.

He played 20 games last season, his first after being claimed with the fifth pick overall of the 2004 national draft, but did not appear until the ninth round this year. His pre-season was curtailed by injury but equally, he was made to earn a place in the Hawthorn side with more than a month in the VFL with Box Hill.

Sheedy recently promised to be an aggressive player in the uncontracted player market via the pre-season draft.

Should the club remain on the bottom of the ladder — something likely to be determined when Essendon and second-bottom Carlton meet in 10 days — the Dons would have the leverage either to force through a trade or claim the best uncontracted player in the competition with the first pick in the pre-season draft.

Again these issues seem more aligned with highly rated top 10 draft picks or am I wrong in my thinking???

 

[macca23]

Franklin would be a good fit for Essendon.

I see he has had disciplinary problems, and IMO Essendon is the most undisciplined team in the competition.

Their number of players reported is a good reflection of that.

 

[- PC -]

No you are not wrong with your thinking.

The media and clubs to some extent build the draft up as saviours of clubs and we are heading down the American way of promoting youth as the god send of a club

The issue I see is where a club is at any given moment and how that impacts on draft picks.

It seems to me that the Melbourne based clubs use draft picks as membership magnets this then creates pressure on the clubs to pick them but also pressure on the draft choice. It does seem to be a Melbourne club based phenomena that draft choices enter those teams quicker than ''interstate'' based teams drafts do. Some could say that is good management by the IC or the local competition is seen as a good standard to blood the new draft.

The Melbourne based clubs also , recently, have tended to be those in the lower reaches of the ladder and therefore the implication of playing raw kids is lessened ie who cares if they drop a few games in the development of a kid. It doesnt hurt the coach who is ''seen to be doing something'' and it gives the crowd a new face to find hope in, and it doesnt impact on established players as the coach is moving deckchairs anyway

This all impacts on the rest of the draft and creates ripples , so if Buddy Franklin at ? 5 plays 35 games in his first 2 years then a number 12 pick would have some expectation of playing at least half that amount...but number 12 pick may be at a top 3 club who already have an established group and established '' positional'' players

 

[NikkiNoo]

so true Macca

You make some interesting points WW - to me it is the 'ego' of these players that they demand that because they are top 10 draft picks makes them somehow get a magic ticket to play for an AFL side. But if you look at those that do play a large number of games in their first season, how many actually develop fully as a player? How often are players maligned because they have this lofty status put upon them and then do not seem to magically be champions?

From a coaching perspective, each person will develop at different rates so a player may appear to have all the skills and physical abilities but it's what between the ears that really counts. You only have to listen to our club talk about our draftees and the same words will continue to be said - "quality young man, intelligence".

In my experience you should never throw an athlete into the deep end without a solid base and belief that they will survive / learn from the experience, to me the most important thing is developing their skills, not stunting their growth as a person and an athlete. I think that many of the top draft picks have had this occur as the clubs have to chase the sponsors and supporters dollars and the whole 'this is the future pay us money' line is actually detrimental to the players development.

 

[Muunky Tuunk Man]

The media and clubs to some extent build the draft up as saviours of clubs and we are heading down the American way of promoting youth as the god send of a club

A great example of this is Bryce Gibbs. He may have an immediate impact when he starts playing but it may take him a couple of years to find his feet and start playing good footy. I think supporters place too much pressure on players picked with high draft picks and when they start playing and the team loses they seem to be singled out more often than not if they are not playing to their supposed potential.

 

[RoosterLad]

I dont think our players are disenchanted at playing SANFL, i cant think of one who just strolls around while playing for his local club.

Meesen has improved a lot (judging by reports, and the reaction from Drumstick) so it shows he hasnt dropped his head when he watches other high draft picks play AFL with crappy pathetic Victorian clubs.

Agree about Gibbs, a lot of pressure being placed on him by everyone. Even on bigfooty (some may be joking) but clubs are bagging us because they have a chance of getting Gibbs and we dont.. as if Bryce is going to turn them from a scummy team with no skills to a champion team like the Adelaide Crows.

 

[beartoo]

Hopefully Bryce will go to a club with a good coaching staff, spend a couple of years developing in the VFL, and then rerturn to the Crows when he falls out of his initial contract. It's happened to us a bit, so why not?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Well, after reading what Reilly said, it wouldnt take a player long to snap out of that way of thinking if they were thrown in the deep end. Perhaps the best option is to give these players a game or two early so they know what needs be done, before letting letting the development process take place.

 

[Crow-mo]

The media and clubs to some extent build the draft up as saviours of clubs and we are heading down the American way of promoting youth as the god send of a club

nah, not even close. there are very few similarities; A guy doesn't graduated college until he's 23/24. compared with 17 and still in school

If he enters his draft before finishing college it's because 1. he's an outstanding talent and has already been encouraged to leave 2. he's still a lot, lot older than we get these guys.

The american way of promoting youth as the saviour is a lot more reasonable because essentially they are much older, and they are that good. they're more of a finished product than anything we get.

In the NBA - a practice since prohibited, was to draft the occasional kid out of high school (usually a superstar waiting to happen i.e. Lebron James); we draft ALL our guys out of high school.

The american system makes a lot more sense when you weigh up the age spread.

 

[just maybe]

Franklin's disciplinary problems were already well known before the draft. Hawthorn took the punt and may lose out as we did with 'the thieving one'.

 

[RoosterLad]

Shawn Kemp was a dropout as well i think.

 

[Mong]

Agree about Gibbs, a lot of pressure being placed on him by everyone. Even on bigfooty (some may be joking) but clubs are bagging us because they have a chance of getting Gibbs and we dont.. as if Bryce is going to turn them from a scummy team with no skills to a champion team like the Adelaide Crows.

Exactly. One player, let alone an 18 year old, is not going to make that much difference to a whole team which depends on 22 players during a game, or as many as 35 players over a season.

The NBA analogy, while dealing with different ages as Crow-mo pointed out, also differs because 1 player can have more influence on a team, being 1 of only 5 on court or 12 players on a roster. An AFL player can never have the same influence.

But, low teams do need something to hang their hat on. We'd probably be the same if we had a top 3 pick. Now that the priority picks situation has changed it really isn't as attractive as it was either.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Shawn Kemp was a dropout as well i think.

There have been a lot of players that have gone straight out of High school into the NBA. In recent times that number started increasing and teams started selecting high-schoolers at a more rapid rate than previously in hope of unearthing a gem. However, NBA were pretty quick to stop it by increasing the draft age limit and now, no high-schoolers can be drafted no matter how good they are. Under the current system LeBron James would have had to go to college for at least 1 year before becoming a pro.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

to me it is the 'ego' of these players that they demand that because they are top 10 draft picks makes them somehow get a magic ticket to play for an AFL side.

As well as the ego of the player, you also have all their support staff - friends, family and especially managers - telling them how good they are, that they should be playing higher and that they are being held back by their club.

Fergus Watts was a perfect example.

 

[Crow-mo]

The NBA analogy, while dealing with different ages as Crow-mo pointed out, also differs because 1 player can have more influence on a team, being 1 of only 5 on court or 12 players on a roster. An AFL player can never have the same influence.

the NFL is perhaps closer. Where they ahev even more players than us, but again the player tend to be much older than in AFL.

What is interesting in Baseball - where their drafts are 7 rounds deep, involve a lot of highschool age kids, is the low expectations placed on a draft pick. these guys might be expected to spend 3,4,5 years in the farm system. They also recognise the high risk associated with picking up kids of that age.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

No you are not wrong with your thinking.

The media and clubs to some extent build the draft up as saviours of clubs and we are heading down the American way of promoting youth as the god send of a club

The issue I see is where a club is at any given moment and how that impacts on draft picks.

It seems to me that the Melbourne based clubs use draft picks as membership magnets this then creates pressure on the clubs to pick them but also pressure on the draft choice. It does seem to be a Melbourne club based phenomena that draft choices enter those teams quicker than ''interstate'' based teams drafts do. Some could say that is good management by the IC or the local competition is seen as a good standard to blood the new draft.

The Melbourne based clubs also , recently, have tended to be those in the lower reaches of the ladder and therefore the implication of playing raw kids is lessened ie who cares if they drop a few games in the development of a kid. It doesnt hurt the coach who is ''seen to be doing something'' and it gives the crowd a new face to find hope in, and it doesnt impact on established players as the coach is moving deckchairs anyway

This all impacts on the rest of the draft and creates ripples , so if Buddy Franklin at ? 5 plays 35 games in his first 2 years then a number 12 pick would have some expectation of playing at least half that amount...but number 12 pick may be at a top 3 club who already have an established group and established '' positional'' players

There are some good thoughts there.....also interesting that I'm sure Hawthorn after the Angwin episode would have completed a thorough due diligence on Franklin??? particularly with such a high draft pick.....although one suspects that the personality that has made him such a hot prospect may also have other side effects.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

so true Macca

You make some interesting points WW - to me it is the 'ego' of these players that they demand that because they are top 10 draft picks makes them somehow get a magic ticket to play for an AFL side. But if you look at those that do play a large number of games in their first season, how many actually develop fully as a player? How often are players maligned because they have this lofty status put upon them and then do not seem to magically be champions?

From a coaching perspective, each person will develop at different rates so a player may appear to have all the skills and physical abilities but it's what between the ears that really counts. You only have to listen to our club talk about our draftees and the same words will continue to be said - "quality young man, intelligence".

In my experience you should never throw an athlete into the deep end without a solid base and belief that they will survive / learn from the experience, to me the most important thing is developing their skills, not stunting their growth as a person and an athlete. I think that many of the top draft picks have had this occur as the clubs have to chase the sponsors and supporters dollars and the whole 'this is the future pay us money' line is actually detrimental to the players development.

Spot on observation and as has been said this expectation apperas more prevalent with Melbourne based clubs than Interstate clubs, maybe because of the media hype in Victoria surrounding the draft.

 

[JohnK]

As well as the ego of the player, you also have all their support staff - friends, family and especially managers - telling them how good they are, that they should be playing higher and that they are being held back by their club.

Fergus Watts was a perfect example.

Brett Ebert may be a better example.

 

[The Crows Truth]

Exactly. One player, let alone an 18 year old, is not going to make that much difference to a whole team which depends on 22 players during a game, or as many as 35 players over a season.

QUOTE]

**** has a Roo or Mc Leod made much difference to the Crows over the yrs?

 

[Mong]

Exactly. One player, let alone an 18 year old, is not going to make that much difference to a whole team which depends on 22 players during a game, or as many as 35 players over a season.

**** has a Roo or Mc Leod made much difference to the Crows over the yrs?

Yes they have but it's hard to quantify that in wins. Ricciuto was awesome for us in 2004, but we had a very poor year. The point is one player alone can't have that much influence, no matter who they are.

Roo and McLeod are a bit better than your average 18 year old number 1 draft pick though. Many of which will never reach their level.