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- #26
Nobody with any idea would have that opinion.
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Useless motorsport facts
- Thread starter imadodgyumpire
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Wolfs
Norm Smith Medallist
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You'll be surprised.
A lot of people see Keke as the winner of the 82 championship with 1 win and people see JV as someone who was great in great cars but peaked too early. Championships are important but a lot of times they don't show who's better than whom.
Sure in the paddock but very rarely are they rated above Keke and JV when surveyed as drivers.
Keke won his championship in a field of turbos and was the last championship for the DFV while JV won it against the highly rated HHF (at the time) and in only his 2nd year, being one of those rare drivers to have made the successful transition from Indycar. Keke should have stayed at Williams and JV shouldn't have committed to BAR for so long.
Wolfs
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- Thread starter
- #30
Damn right I would!
You can pock holes in anyone's career or season. But under no circumstance can Keke Rosberg be considered inferior. His 82 title is of great merit. JV you could argue could've been more dominant in 97. But he still won the most races, and the only person I reckon Schu genuinely **** himself over. On top of that. JV overall was great in 98, despite not winning and only getting 2 podiums. I distinctly remember thinking he ****** up less and got closer to the car's optimum result in 98 than 97.
Webber and Berger on the other hand? Geesh! Webber drove a dominant or best car overall for four years (Which is more than what some of the all time greats have had the opportunity to do) and never did better than 3rd! At least finish 2nd so you can say the team management hating you was what made the difference. Nico Rosberg at least finishes 2nd and keeps Hamilton honest.
Berger. Well, he had a long career. I'll say he averages less than one win a year in all the years he had a car that you could say could win a race. That takes an extra special kind of ****. He wouldn't have won a Formula Holden title during his "peak".
Wolfs
Norm Smith Medallist
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I'm not saying I do. I read people saying those things.
- Keke was lucky
- JV lucked out of a good car and ruined by going to BAR
- Berger was Senna's teammate and pushed him.
- Webber had the team against him or pushed Seb while being past his prime.
Blah blah blah.
People say those things. It is what it is.
Yeesh. I didn't need reminding that existed.
That's bizzare reasoning. Webber was 2nd going into the last race of 2010 and leading with 3 races to go. Both he and Alonso got screwed over by that stupid early safety car period and a track that drivers couldn't overtake on. It was pretty obvious Webber was getting screwed over that year by his team, particularly when they placed the blame on him for Vettels stupid move in Turkey. Subsequent years they focused the car on Vettels preferences.
- Thread starter
- #33
Yeah. It's bizarre reasoning to expect a guy driving one of the two best cars on the grid to at least finish 2nd in the title.
Using Rosberg as an example whose car was far and away better relative to the rest of the grid than what Webber enjoyed and whose team was fully backing Vettel. Then you have guys like Hamilton who had the car to complete for the title in 2010 and 2012 (I reckon it was the best that year) and wasn't even close, yet conveniently get forgetten.
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- #35
The 4 years from 10-13 the RB was the best car. In particular in 10. That is common knowledge. It's just that Vettel & Webber didn't make the most of it. Vettel got away with it, then made great use of it in 11.
The Redbull in 2010 wasn't as good as the Ferrari of 2002/2004 or the turbo Mercedes of today relative to the rest of the grid. 2010 McLaren at least had a car that was just as good as the Ferrari that year but their drivers ****ed it up.
The 2012 Redball would be looked at as the fastest car if one ignored the facts.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/12/03/2012-f1-car-performance/
And Lewis and Jenson weren't even close to the title. Amazes me this gets swept under the carpet in the mainstream while Hill continously gets slagged for 1995, at least he finished 2nd!
If a team car locks out the front grid in Melbourne its ALWAYS the fastest car on the grid that year: 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010, 2012 , 2013, 2015, 2016. Another useless motorsport fact.
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- #37
What am I supposed to do with that shit? 
It's not the 70s. Where the rules are so open you can tank one year to build a beast for the following year. The rules are so tight that that there aren't such dramatic swings of form. Aero was the dominant factor, and RB was superior overall to all others for the years from 10-13.
It's not the 70s. Where the rules are so open you can tank one year to build a beast for the following year. The rules are so tight that that there aren't such dramatic swings of form. Aero was the dominant factor, and RB was superior overall to all others for the years from 10-13.
What am I supposed to do with that shit?
Educate yourself....
...but clearly you feel you are above such things.
- Thread starter
- #39
Yeah whatever. Go and start a thread about it.
- Thread starter
- #40
Anyway. Looking at the highlights on the f1 site. Knucklehead David Croft mentioned that Raikkonen equalled Alonso's record of most podiums without a win at a venue. For Alonso, it's 8 podiums for 0 wins in Brazil. Never picked up on that.
- Thread starter
- #41
Excluding Daniel Riccardo, because he's on the list provisionally. Of the 72 drivers who've won more than 1 GP. Eddie Irvine, Wolfgang Von Trips and Peter Revson had all their career wins in a single season. Irvine, 4 in 99. Trips and Revson, 2 in 61 and 73.
Excluding Bull Vukovich, whose Indy 500 wins in the 50s count as F1 wins. Of the 72 drivers who've won mote than 1 GP. Only Giancarlo Fisichella never won a race in Europe.
Excluding Bull Vukovich, whose Indy 500 wins in the 50s count as F1 wins. Of the 72 drivers who've won mote than 1 GP. Only Giancarlo Fisichella never won a race in Europe.
Wolfs
Norm Smith Medallist
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2012 to be fair on Mark (this is a stretch) had one of the best seasons by a single driver not to win a championship (Alonso). The guy drove that Ferrari so well. It's too bad he fell short.