List Mgmt. Vickery to first ruck

[Goldust]

I almost hit the report button by accident...but that may have been appropriate.

Vickery SHOULD be able to play first ruck, but quite frankly he can't. He doesn't have the size (height/bulk), reach or leap. If he does tap the ball - he is actually pretty good .... just a shame he can't get to as many taps as a first ruck needs to. Maric is actually not that different - HOWEVER - he takes out players in a radius of about a kilometer after each ruck or marking contest and is great around the ground..... Vickery doesn't do this and would be beaten around the ground. Not as badly as Hampson...but because he is not a link player, just a finisher, he can't be the No1 ruck IMHO.

As a forward, he is a superb finisher but just cant get enough of the ball in the forward line as he is not quite aggressive enough nor a good enough contested mark.

So unless we get an incredible trade deal for him - a Forward he must stay and be an adequate backup ruck.

Nail on head!! The end!!
As the late, great Allan Jeans once said: "Footballers are like sausages, you can fry them, grill them, bake them, they’re still footballers.”
You can put Vickery in the ruck, at CHF, or throw him on awing, his limitations (not being aggressive enough, a good contested mark, or getting enough of the pill) will always be there.

 

[Goldust]

Few good overhead marks there...Plus that second clip were he is dancing around essendon defenders shows his mobility. In my eyes he is the perfect modern day ruckman, smart footballer, quick to think in close and agile enough around the ground. I see why he was made a second key forward with no one else there but Jack, but we need him in the ruck.
Ty is the least of our problems, I could make a case for 10 players that need to be gone before him. Focus on getting rid of B.Ellis (lost the plot can't kick), Grigg (too soft), Astbury (too slow), Bachelor (shit), Houli (too soft), Maric (too slow), Chaplin (too slow, too soft), Lloyd (too slow), Hunt (shit), Morris (shit) and get quality around him and he will be perfectly fine.

Here's a few things, none of Bachelor, Lloyd, Hunt, Morris or Astbury have ever had as regular a gig as Ty and don't command the serious coin that a first round pick gets is on.
Houli especially, Maric and Grigg have produced three/four very consistent seasons, Ty is a yo-yo that does 'walk the dog' - more going down then up.
And seriously you've just labelled three or four guys soft, none who have the height and bulk of the supposed big man Ty.
FFS ... Ty falls far short of Jonathan Brown, Dermott Brereton, Wayne Carey, Terry Daniher, Buddy Franklin and Jarryd Roughhead when it comes to presence. Man, he falls short of Sam Lloyd and Ben Lennon when it comes to being a presence.

 

[Goldust]

Few good overhead marks there...Plus that second clip were he is dancing around essendon defenders shows his mobility. In my eyes he is the perfect modern day ruckman, smart footballer, quick to think in close and agile enough around the ground. I see why he was made a second key forward with no one else there but Jack, but we need him in the ruck.
Ty is the least of our problems, I could make a case for 10 players that need to be gone before him. Focus on getting rid of B.Ellis (lost the plot can't kick), Grigg (too soft), Astbury (too slow), Bachelor (shit), Houli (too soft), Maric (too slow), Chaplin (too slow, too soft), Lloyd (too slow), Hunt (shit), Morris (shit) and get quality around him and he will be perfectly fine.

The best of Ty Vickery goes a full two minutes, 18 seconds
A pop song and a cup of tea last longer!

 

[rado]

Here's a few things, none of Bachelor, Lloyd, Hunt, Morris or Astbury have ever had as regular a gig as Ty and don't command the serious coin that a first round pick gets is on.
Houli especially, Maric and Grigg have produced three/four very consistent seasons, Ty is a yo-yo that does 'walk the dog' - more going down then up.
And seriously you've just labelled three or four guys soft, none who have the height and bulk of the supposed big man Ty.
FFS ... Ty falls far short of Jonathan Brown, Dermott Brereton, Wayne Carey, Terry Daniher, Buddy Franklin and Jarryd Roughhead when it comes to presence. Man, he falls short of Sam Lloyd and Ben Lennon when it comes to being a presence.

Pointless arguing with you. No one is calling him a Jonathan brown or Wayne Carey. Doesn't matter what you or I think at the end of the day anyway, the proof will be in the pudding when all those players mentioned are delisted or moved on before ty is, and for good reason.
17 other clubs would have vickery on their list in an instant, can't say the same for the others.

 

[juss]

I think we should give it a go. He might lose at centre bounces but he would win around the ground. Hes very mobile for a big man.

 

[Wallaby]

And we'd lose his defensive pressure up forward.

Ok, you win.

Seriously - I wrote this back in 2009. It's from the thread 'Player Ratings for the next 5 years' - in other words who are our most important going forward.

"Vickery - clearly No 1.

A dominant ruckman is a huge weapon - Simmo and Staff both had some good days, but were never dominant.

I can't count the number of games in the last 10 years were the opposition ruckman has been the difference.

And Vickery is our only one on the horizon - I'm still willing to trade for one for the next few years until Vickery grows up (he just seems a touch small).

2 Riewoldt
3 Deledio
4 Cotchin
5 McGuane"

I reckon I got it pretty right. We did trade for Maric, and he worked fine for a few years. Now - Vickery should be taking over. I agree - chuck him in there. What have we got to lose? A slow, lumbering half-forward flanker?

(OK - maybe it should have been Rance instead of McGuane, but he didn't look too promising back then).

 

[TigerImposter]

Best analogy for moving TV into the ruck

 

[Colonel Matrix]

It's all mental, he's got all the other attributes. I don't understand how guys that big can be squibbs but Ty certainly is

 

[Goldust]

Pointless arguing with you. No one is calling him a Jonathan brown or Wayne Carey. Doesn't matter what you or I think at the end of the day anyway, the proof will be in the pudding when all those players mentioned are delisted or moved on before ty is, and for good reason.
17 other clubs would have vickery on their list in an instant, can't say the same for the others.

Got that right ... it's pointless arguing.
I never said Ty needs to be Jonathon Brown or wayne Carey, but HE DOES need to crash a pack every now and then or compete in a centre bounce or marking contest ... and he's not!
I feel it hypocritical to call Houli, Chaplin etc. soft when Ty as as soft as anyone out there, but has the body and stature to be so much more.

 

[Goldust]

Got that right ... it's pointless arguing.
I never said Ty needs to be Jonathon Brown or wayne Carey, but HE DOES need to crash a pack every now and then or compete in a centre bounce or marking contest ... and he's not!
I feel it hypocritical to call Houli, Chaplin etc. soft when Ty as as soft as anyone out there, but has the body and stature to be so much more.

Yes 17 other clubs would have him on the list; but he'd like Minson at the Bulldogs ... on the outer and playing Twos. If he served up what he has this year under Clarko he'd be at Box Hill. Butr Dimma thinks it somehow acceptable that his second biggest footballer each week can shirk contests.
Again, I invite you to watch the Eaglkes replay and watch Ty offer no contest on several occasions at the centre bounce and tell me that's acceptable.

 

[CoggaRules]

Best analogy for moving TV into the ruck

View attachment 243657

 

[Neen]

I've been a fan of Vickery since he came to the club, and I've patiently been waiting for a break out season. I'm afraid that is not going to happen. He is too soft in the forward like and when in the ruck he is undisciplined. He shows glimpses of great mobility in the ruck (Essendon 3 years ago) but does not do it enough. Would be a good duo with Griffiths in the women's team. Trade at the end of the year.

 

[RobsJourney]

I almost hit the report button by accident...but that may have been appropriate.

Vickery SHOULD be able to play first ruck, but quite frankly he can't. He doesn't have the size (height/bulk), reach or leap. If he does tap the ball - he is actually pretty good .... just a shame he can't get to as many taps as a first ruck needs to. Maric is actually not that different - HOWEVER - he takes out players in a radius of about a kilometer after each ruck or marking contest and is great around the ground..... Vickery doesn't do this and would be beaten around the ground. Not as badly as Hampson...but because he is not a link player, just a finisher, he can't be the No1 ruck IMHO.

As a forward, he is a superb finisher but just cant get enough of the ball in the forward line as he is not quite aggressive enough nor a good enough contested mark.

So unless we get an incredible trade deal for him - a Forward he must stay and be an adequate backup ruck.

I guess I'm going on 1. Potential and 2. Because the cupboard is bare.

Potential because, I do remember a few games where he rucked more, did some good baulks around the ground, had like 18 or so disposals and still kicked 1 or 2.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

Given last night's performance I would almost say that Griffiths should be given a go instead. Almost all taps were to advantage, given that he didn't ruck consistently throughout the match obvious this has to be taken with a grain of salt. At least he can swing back and forward and provide "adequate" cover for a resting ruck or provide a contest in the forward line.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Cybil Shepherd looked amazing in that film