Viduka

[JD-Roo]

Never said there was no violence at Football. Football is like life - an emotional rollercoaster with wonderful highs, depressing lows, joy and violence.

Yet you have spent DAYS upon DAYS pointing out how you think soccer fans are better, more intelligent, more sophisticated, more worldy, less boorish, less neanderthal compared to Aussie Rules followers, even listing examples of that behaviour.

Footy, football, soccer, sport in general... all of them are emotional, all of them are frustrating, but I'd much rather go to the sport I love without the worry of my family or I not making it back alive.

While the actual play on the ground might be the 'beautiful game', your continued argument about how soccer's supporters are just such a better class of people is not only wrong, it is downright offensive.

 

[mustapha]

Footy, football, soccer, sport in general... all of them are emotional, all of them are frustrating, but I'd much rather go to the sport I love without the worry of my family or I not making it back alive.

QUOTE]

Imagine that the AFL was played in every country on the planet. You don't think that there would be crowd violence somewhere? Compare the number of worldwide Aussie Rules games that are played in any one week to the amount of soccer games that are played in that same week. Of course there are going to be more records of crowd violence at soccer games. There are also going to more crowd incident free soccer games than Aussie Rules games.

It's like the perception the Collingwood has more feral fans than other team. They do have a bigger absolute value because they have a bigger number of fans but a small percentage of all clubs fans are ferals.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Mike Pyke, Karmicael Hunt, Ed Barlow and Presti all cant kick, just to name a few.

Heck, even Judd not a very good kick. If kicking was so important in AFL, they wouldn't be recruiting players from other codes to play AFL. Just my take on technical skills of a AFL player.

Also, Soccer players dont have to kick 40 metres. U tell them to kick 15 metres,either foot with most players, they do it. But that also have to control the ball first with a good first touch, and that is a skill you arent judging in your discussion. A good passer with no first touch is absolutely useless, as then he cant retain the ball.

 

[Barkly St End]

Also, Soccer players dont have to kick 40 metres. U tell them to kick 15 metres,either foot with most players, they do it. But that also have to control the ball first with a good first touch, and that is a skill you arent judging in your discussion. A good passer with no first touch is absolutely useless, as then he cant retain the ball.

Brett Holman anyone?

Yes, of course, all that is true, but I can only repeat, as demonstrated in your post, the views of overwhemling technical superiority come from the soccer side, they don't come from the aussie rules side, and under close scrutiny, the skills set of Australian football stacks up pretty well.

So you get a soccer fan, so convinced of his personalised fantasy, that he dreams up this test of hitting the glass off a stool on the other side of the tree.

Sounds wonderful, until it's pointed out that the aussie rules player can do it via two different methods (by foot), on either foot and round either side of the tree, and most probably do it more accurately.

These are the sorts of exaggerated perceptions that are worthwhile quashing from an Australian Football perspective.

Furthermore, soccer fans appear to forget that at least one position, perhaps as many as three positions, are filled with players who bring a unique range of attributes to the game, and who aren't necessarily blessed with the full range of technical abilities.

That's three of 11 players, or 27.272727%.

In short, invariably these sorts of claims are wildly exaggerated.

 

[Barkly St End]

Brett Holman anyone?

Yes, of course, all that is true, but I can only repeat, as demonstrated in your post, the views of overwhemling technical superiority come from the soccer side, they don't come from the aussie rules side, and under close scrutiny, the skills set of Australian football stacks up pretty well.

So you get a soccer fan, so convinced of his personalised fantasy, that he dreams up this test of hitting the glass off a stool on the other side of the tree.

Sounds wonderful, until it's pointed out that the aussie rules player can do it via two different methods (by foot), on either foot and round either side of the tree, and most probably do it more accurately.

These are the sorts of exaggerated perceptions that are worthwhile quashing from an Australian Football perspective.

Furthermore, soccer fans appear to forget that at least one position, perhaps as many as three positions, are filled with players who bring a unique range of attributes to the game, and who aren't necessarily blessed with the full range of technical abilities.

That's three of 11 players, or 27.272727%.

In short, invariably these sorts of claims are wildly exaggerated.

Actually, when I think about it, not only has Brett Holman got a poor first touch (just about the absolute worst I've ever seen in my life), but his range of passing is questionable.

Apart from running around like a puppy dog, I'm not really sure why Holman is in the NT.

I've often suspected that Pim likes the AFL idea of a "defensive forward".

 

[Bouvet_Island]

Actually, when I think about it, not only has Brett Holman got a poor first touch (just about the absolute worst I've ever seen in my life), but his range of passing is questionable.

Apart from running around like a puppy dog, I'm not really sure why Holman is in the NT.

Trust me - bagging Holman to soccer people is preaching to the choir!

 

[Barkly St End]

Trust me - bagging Holman to soccer people is preaching to the choir!

heh, heh - I know!! one reason why I felt I was on solid ground!

In fairness, I can actually understand it one level.

Holman is with a decent club in the Eredivisie.

That puts him in the top ten Australian players (from that perspective).

So he (Pim) really does have to keep him in the picture, and put him above of players like: Brosque, Burns, Thompson, etc, who some fans were seriously considering for inclusion in the list of 27.

 

[mighty tiges]

You are probably too young and never experienced the disgusting and sometimes violent behaviour at VFL matches during the 70s, when people could bring unlimited beer (men drank out of bottles - there were no stubbies or cans in those days), particular trouble spots were:

a) under the windsock at Windy Hill

b) in front of the broadcasting area at Princes Park (in fact one man wsa murdered as he tried to protect his son during a Carl v Richmond match in the late 70s)

c) men urinating against the wall at the scoreboard end at Princes Park

d) the urine thrown at umpires and opposition players at Victoria Park and Moorabbin - St Kilda supporters were so reknowned for their feral behaviour that they named a part of the ground "the animal enclosure"

I could go on?

Having said that, in my opinion, the game had more "atmosphere" and genuine support during the 70s & 80s and the players, too, had more personality than today's robots.

I was there as I grew up around footy clubs and my dad worked for VFL clubs and there were VB and MB stubbies and cans of full strength beer btw. Yes in those days it was rough as guts although as a little kid the only issue I had was being able to see above crowd of adults and chasing a free footy that had been kicked out of a little suburban ground. Standing room was the norm unless you were a member with a reserved spot on a bench seat in the old grandstands. 30k people squeezed into a ground that would now only hold half that amount of people fully seated. Aussie Rules was semi-pro at best back then but amateurish by today's standards both on and off the field. Those days are gone. Footy grew up and became professional. Back then was also the height of Soccer hooliganism especially in England with riots in the streets. In Australia the hatred between clubs of different ethnicity was full on. I remember a game at local level in the Western suburbs between Greek and Turk clubs where some players tried to wear spikes instead of studs or would sharpen their studs to a point . Even in recent years in the VPL Preston Makedonia and South Melbourne Hellas supporters were barred from attending away games when they played each other. In 2004 the Preston ground was vandalised with pro-Greek slogans. In Europe those fans without a ticket are barred from travelling to cities for away games and the police need to keep track of the movements of known hooligans. The A-league is all about getting away from that crap and should be about developing and embracing our own Australian culture rather than mimicking the worse aspects of European Soccer off-field. Hopefully the Victory-Heart derby will have supporters of both clubs sitting side by side (apart from the feral cheer squads behind the goals which are beyond help in any football code )

As far as an "old atmosphere" - that's just the rosy nostalgia of youthful days (although I don't have too many pleasant memories of Waverley ). I remember when I was working and holidaying in Europe and you'd have old timers say the atmosphere at Soccer games was better in the old days when there were the old terraces and old-school long-ball Soccer. You're just showing your age Figjam . The modern change had a lot to do with the Bradford and Hillsborough tragedies in the 80s changing the minds of sport administrators around the world. Gone were the old deathtrap terraces and standing room areas to now full seated stadiums. You can't have masses of people dying at a football game. Likewise the modern public demands top facilities especially with more women and families attending games. The problem is older people only remember the best games of the past with the best atmosphere whatever sport they follow. They forget being at Arctic Park in mid-July freezing to death while watching your side get flogged by 10 goals or even more recently the Victory being 0-3 down inside 15 minutes to Sydney and watching a flat-as-a-tack Melbourne side. There are good games and crap games. No sport is perfect but then again it's probably the imperfections that makes us connect with sport as human beings. You accept the lows because it makes the highs feel so good.

 

[Barkly St End]

agree - the big thing as a kid was seeing above the adults - never a problem at the MCG and Waverley - in the 200 to 300 games I've seen in my life - I can't recall ever seeing anything that even approached a problem.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

When we reduce the games to these sorts of tests, actually designed by a soccer person! we realise that aussie rules stacks up quite well in manipulating the flight of a ball.

Come on, you can't seriously compare anything in the AFL to this.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Actually, when I think about it, not only has Brett Holman got a poor first touch (just about the absolute worst I've ever seen in my life), but his range of passing is questionable.

Apart from running around like a puppy dog, I'm not really sure why Holman is in the NT.

I've often suspected that Pim likes the AFL idea of a "defensive forward".

I did say "soccer player" in my post. Im not yet convinced he is one.

 

[Barkly St End]

I did say "soccer player" in my post. Im not yet convinced he is one.

There was a bit of write up on Holman in the age today - how he cops a fair bit from socceroos fans, etc.

I actually feel a bit sorry for him - you can't do too much more in your career than win a championship in the Eredivisie (not a hell of a lot of Australian players have done better)

 

[vesra]

Figjam Idon't know why you'd bring up the ethnic traditions. Thats part of the reason the sport is so small in this country. The immigrants wanted to watch their game but there was no traditional presence in place so they created their own. If the football association in Australia truely wanted to ingrain the game into australians lives before it was profitable they would have. Instead they made a long overdue decision and destroyed the community they already had

Look what they did to the team of the century. They've left them for dead after all they did for the game, how do they expect anyone to get on board when political agenda and profit take priority to the traditional fanbase they threw under the bus.

 

[Zidane98]

As a football fan in Australia I appreciate the contribution that the immigrant population has made to the development of the game. I do also feel that the changes that were made to the game were necessary to cement the sport in the minds of all Australians, not just the immigrant population.

Perhaps allowing some of the ex NSL clubs to compete in an Australian FA cup with the A League clubs would go some way to recognising the contribution that the immigrant based clubs have made for Australian football (and also effectively setting up the A League).

 

[wedgetail]

As a football fan in Australia I appreciate the contribution that the immigrant population has made to the development of the game. I do also feel that the changes that were made to the game were necessary to cement the sport in the minds of all Australians, not just the immigrant population.

Perhaps allowing some of the ex NSL clubs to compete in an Australian FA cup with the A League clubs would go some way to recognising the contribution that the immigrant based clubs have made for Australian football (and also effectively setting up the A League).

Dude, every single Australian (*) emigrated here less than 200 years ago, lots much much more recently... mostly from the UK, but with decent numbers from the rest of the globe. We dont dislike soccer or prefer aussie rules because of a lack of cultural connection to the heartland of soccer, we dislike it because its a shit boring nill-all snorefest played by primadonna actors with entirely over-inflated opinions of themselves considering they cant run a straight line without falling over thier laces and pretending to break a leg.

(*) except for the aboriginals who came 10,000ish years ago. And were actually playing thier own version of football when the europeans arrived, helping inspire the Australian game.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

Dude, every single Australian (*) emigrated here less than 200 years ago, lots much much more recently... mostly from the UK, but with decent numbers from the rest of the globe. We dont dislike soccer or prefer aussie rules because of a lack of cultural connection to the heartland of soccer, we dislike it because its a shit boring nill-all snorefest played by primadonna actors with entirely over-inflated opinions of themselves considering they cant run a straight line without falling over thier laces and pretending to break a leg.

Oh, so you're not patriotic stupid, you're just regular stupid.

 

[Guus_Hiddink]

A thread about Mark Viduka has morphed into another my dad is tougher than your dad thread

FFS

 

[.Shotties.]

Never said there was no violence at Football. Football is like life - an emotional rollercoaster with wonderful highs, depressing lows, joy and violence.

I'm still curious to know why:

Rugby Union & Rugby League players have better kicking skills than Aussie Rules players:

a) aiming at essentially the same target

b) from similar distances.
Perhaps, they are just more professional and practise more?

Funnily enough I took part in a study on this for both left and right feet, Sherrin off a tee, Steden off a tee and both dropped and kicked over a barrier.

Strangely enough the scores for everyone dropped with both balls when they had to drop the ball and kick it over a barrier instead of off a tee at a clear target. Ponder that, if you will.

Sidenote: Figgers, are you seriously passing comment on Australian Football Skills despite the fact you've never played it?

 

[wikipediaAFLproject]

FIGJAM,

Get off your high horse.

I played soccer as a junior, watched much of the last WC on TV, play online soccer and have lived in a non-english speaking country etc.

Regardless of any of the above, because I don't think the WC should be held in Australia ( mostly because i don't think the costs are worth the benefits ) and support AFL, according to most soccer fans on this forum I'm an insular bogan who couldn't have a valid opinion if I said the sun will rise tomorrow.

The same soccer fans who seem to think that because their sport is bigger internationally, it makes them open minded.

Quite ironic isnt it. Those who follow the rest of the world are open-minded, while those of us who choose to follow an 'insignificant sport in a backwater country' are insular, close minded bogans.

 

[Barkly St End]

A thread about Mark Viduka has morphed into another my dad is tougher than your dad thread

FFS

IN case you missed it, here is the very first line on the very first post on this thread (from moi):

"Well done Dukes - we're going to miss you in SA - massive hole, impossible to fill."

 

[Barkly St End]

Sidenote: Figgers, are you seriously passing comment on Australian Football Skills despite the fact you've never played it?

This is what I've learned over the last few years of sports blogging - the vehemence with which someone attacks the skills required of Australian Football rises in inverse proportion to their capacity to kick a leather footy.

As soon as people starting making out it's easier to manipulate a rubber ball than a leather one, then you pretty much know where they are coming from, that the problem is really them.

There's also the couldn't-get-a-kick-in-the-schoolyard syndrome.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

As soon as people starting making out it's easier to manipulate a rubber ball than a leather one, then you pretty much know where they are coming from, that the problem is really them.

Anybody with half a brain can see that it's much more difficult to learn to use a soccer ball effectively.

 

[Barkly St End]

Anybody with half a brain can see that it's much more difficult to learn to use a soccer ball effectively.

I disagree - it's a skill easily learned.

Youtube is full of 10 year olds who can do keepings up for days on end - anyone can do it.

But to hit a target at 50m either foot with a leather footy, running full pace, under extreme physical pressure - that's not for mere mortals.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

I disagree - it's a skill easily learned.

Alright, let's see you do it. I expect you to be in the Premier League by next week.

Youtube is full of 10 year olds who can do keepings up for days on end - anyone can do it.

Whoa, keepings up. You mean some kid's game which has no bearing on actual soccer skills?

But to hit a target at 50m either foot with a leather footy, running full pace, under extreme physical pressure - that's not for mere mortals.

What's your obsession with leather? It's inferior, that's why they stopped using it in soccer.

 

[Aucklander]

What's your obsession with leather? It's inferior, that's why they stopped using it in soccer.

He could be on to something with the either foot part.