WAFL FANS UNITE! - Say NO to Reserves Teams

[swannies]

Alright, I'm a die hard WAFL supporter and I'm angry and can't sleep, so thought, hey, let's run a pole.

What are your thoughts on the Fremantle and Eagles Football Clubs having their reserves team in the WAFL, but not allowed to play in finals? That part seems rather pointless, not allowing them to play in finals.

If you're a supporter of either club that doesn't currently attend the WAFL, would this prompt you to at least come and look at the comp.

For a die hard, like myself, I can see it ending the existence of a couple of clubs, or even the WAFL itself, which is the end aim of the AFL, but I'll explain that in another rant, later.

 

[Tundrawolf]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Is there a "HELL NO!!!" option?

There is now.

 

[FootyFullOn]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Can only be good for the competition

 

[andana]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Those reserves teams should play in the VFL ie the AFL reserves.

 

[swannies]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Is there a "HELL NO!!!" option?

I'm surprised I didn't make one Tundra, I was angry.

 

[pablo668]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

No no a thousand times NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

This would do nothing for the comp other than *******e it completely.

The comp is already ringbarked by the AFL draft every year, we don't need it also taking the talent that is left (playing for the Eagles and Dockers) and putting them into two dedicated teams.
This would further weaken the comp and deprive the clubs of experienced top level players.

It's just bad bad bad bad bad.

 

[masai]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

I've made my feelings on this issue known on both the Dockers & Eagles Boards. If it aint broke ........

The WAFL is in an upward swing, I feel the WAFL starting to find their niche after the entry of the 2 AFL teams. In fact I think the WAFL is gaining ground with people in that it is accessable to families at a reasonable cost.

Really is the present system with AFL listed players in the WAFL that bad ?.

 

[pablo668]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Can only be good for the competition

Stop trolling.

 

[swannies]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

No no a thousand times NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

This would do nothing for the comp other than *******e it completely.

The comp is already ringbarked by the AFL draft every year, we don't need it also taking the talent that is left (playing for the Eagles and Dockers) and putting them into two dedicated teams.
This would further weaken the comp and deprive the clubs of experienced top level players.

It's just bad bad bad bad bad.

Are you convinced that the Presidents' won't allow it through though? I have this horrible feeling that some clubs, that might need the finances, can be bought?

 

[pablo668]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Are you convinced that the Presidents' won't allow it through though? I have this horrible feeling that some clubs, that might need the finances, can be bought?

Unfortunately no I'm not convinced.
You can never discount the action of the lowest common denominator, or the fatally short-sighted.

 

[Cro_Pavo]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Hell No, leave it as is!

 

[gytre]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

No no a thousand times NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

This would do nothing for the comp other than *******e it completely.

The comp is already ringbarked by the AFL draft every year, we don't need it also taking the talent that is left (playing for the Eagles and Dockers) and putting them into two dedicated teams.
This would further weaken the comp and deprive the clubs of experienced top level players.

It's just bad bad bad bad bad.

Perfectly summised. Ideally, the WAFL would resort to eight teams (minus Peel) because there simply isn't the talent pool available for nine let alone eleven.

 

[Sico 17]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

The thing I enjoy about this discussion every year when it comes up is the amount of people who have not been to a WAFL game in years (if ever) yet they are an expert on what is wrong with the competition and how to fix it.

While don't like this idea I do think the WAFL should do more to get AFL fans to WAFL games. 40,000 fans of either WA AFL team go to a game every 2nd week. The WAFL should do more to get them to WAFL games when their AFL team is playing away. Not to mention the chunk of WA football fans that don't support WCE or the Dockers.

Unfortunately most WAFL fans and administrators are stuck with the attitude that everything AFL is evil and should be avoided at all costs when the WAFL should have the attitude that the AFL is the biggest beast in the jungle and we should be piggy-backing it all the way for more success.

 

[pablo668]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

The thing I enjoy about this discussion every year when it comes up is the amount of people who have not been to a WAFL game in years (if ever) yet they are an expert on what is wrong with the competition and how to fix it.

While don't like this idea I do think the WAFL should do more to get AFL fans to WAFL games. 40,000 fans of either WA AFL team go to a game every 2nd week. The WAFL should do more to get them to WAFL games when their AFL team is playing away. Not to mention the chunk of WA football fans that don't support WCE or the Dockers.

Unfortunately most WAFL fans and administrators are stuck with the attitude that everything AFL is evil and should be avoided at all costs when the WAFL should have the attitude that the AFL is the biggest beast in the jungle and we should be piggy-backing it all the way for more success.

This is a complete load of cobblers.

I go to WAFL games quite frequently thank you very much, mostly home games and away games from time to time.

Once the WAFL lost it's supporter base to the VFL/AFL (this started back in the early 80's) it was really behind the game and was never going to be able to catch up.
One of the biggest problems was channel 7 not telecasting WAFL anymore but not letting anyone else have the rights either. The local newspapers also stopped reporting on local games to any reasonable level.
No support from the media, people stop going to the games and start to forget the comp even exists, especially when there is a new sporting franchise in town with big bucks to spend on promotion.

While not saying the AFL is 'Evil' I would certainly say they are not very nice and they certainly don't have the WAFL's best interests at heart.

Let's look at this closely, a big swag of young promising players is heading away from the WAFL comp every year, draining the talent pool. A small amount of these players are picked up by the Dockers and Eagles and stay on playing in WAFL teams.
To add to this already bad situation, the Eagles and Dockers want to take those remaining players, and any other player they can get a hold of and put them into two dedicated squads, leaving the WAFL comp with what?

F**king fantastic logic that is.

The WAFL clubs that survive get to play on with vastly reduced playing stocks, any player that does show good form will end up across the country or in the AFL club reserve teams the next year and the local footy fans get to watch a yearly procession of either one or the other AFL reserve team picking up a flag every year.

Yeah that's gonna be really good for the comp.

Sorry mate but no matter which way you cut it, the AFL will only ever do things that serve it's own ends, anyone else gets bent over the nearest park bench for a right royal rogering.

 

[Sico 17]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Did you read even read my post or were you too busy starting a rant? Ever think the crack at people who don't go to WAFL games may have been against people who don't go to WAFL games, not people who do? I said I didn't like this idea and I said the WAFL could do more in promotion amongst existing football fans. I did not say the WAFL should bow to all things AFL.

There is so much the WAFL can do if it associated themselves with the two AFL clubs and try and get the AFL fans to rekindle interest in the WAFL.

How about giving each member of the AFL clubs a family pass or two for any WAFL game?
Maybe incorporate a WAFL membership into the waiting list for members of the WCE or Dockers?
How about playing a WAFL colts game after an AFL day game (like a Fremantle derby after a Fremantle game) to remind people they once supported the WAFL (free entry to family or existing WAFL fans).

Simple things like this should be done and would be easy to do with all three parties, WCE, Fremantle and WAFL, being owned and run by the same organisation.

Instead the WAFL and its fans continue to live in the late 80's and refused to have anything to do with the AFL, WCE or the Dockers. Instead of riding the spectator success of the AFL in the state they would prefer the competition have nothing to do with the AFL and die. So many codes in this city would love to be associated with the AFL and have the massive leg up it would get.

 

[pablo668]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Did you read even read my post or were you too busy starting a rant? Ever think the crack at people who don't go to WAFL games may have been against people who don't go to WAFL games, not people who do? I said I didn't like this idea and I said the WAFL could do more in promotion amongst existing football fans. I did not say the WAFL should bow to all things AFL.

There is so much the WAFL can do if it associated themselves with the two AFL clubs and try and get the AFL fans to rekindle interest in the WAFL.

How about giving each member of the AFL clubs a family pass or two for any WAFL game?
Maybe incorporate a WAFL membership into the waiting list for members of the WCE or Dockers?
How about playing a WAFL colts game after an AFL day game (like a Fremantle derby after a Fremantle game) to remind people they once supported the WAFL (free entry to family or existing WAFL fans).

Simple things like this should be done and would be easy to do with all three parties, WCE, Fremantle and WAFL, being owned and run by the same organisation.

Instead the WAFL and its fans continue to live in the late 80's and refused to have anything to do with the AFL, WCE or the Dockers. Instead of riding the spectator success of the AFL in the state they would prefer the competition have nothing to do with the AFL and die. So many codes in this city would love to be associated with the AFL and have the massive leg up it would get.

Yes I did read it, as I previously stated, it was a load of old cobblers.

Your promotional ideas have some merit but I seriously doubt that the bulk of Eagles and Dockers fans could give a toss about what happens in the local league, in fact most of them stopped caring a long time ago.

Nice cheap shot at fans of the WAFL. Did you stop to think that maybe they like the comp as it is and don't want it subsumed into a practice ground for the AFL listed players?

Perhaps you can tell me how the WAFL is going to function with most of it's talent shuffled of interstate or concentrated into two teams?
You did read that part of my rant didn't you?

If this plan goes ahead there won't be any spectator success to be shared around, the WAFL will just lose what integrity it has left as a competition in it's own right.

 

[gytre]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Good debate here gentleman. I'll have my own say soon enough. The West Australian newspaper has covered the dilemma of AFL teams in the WAFL in today's edition. Which doesn't surprise me because it's bound to be a talking point for footy fans. But people can talk about it all they like; it isn't going to happen. The WAFC simply isn't that stupid.

 

[gytre]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

One of the biggest problems was channel 7 not telecasting WAFL anymore but not letting anyone else have the rights either.

Not having the WAFL covered by a commercial network has definitely been a major problem. I have long said that as long as WAFL TV coverage remains exclusively with the ABC, it will never go anywhere. People are simply more inclined to watch the commercial networks than the ABC. Plus the commercial networks market their programmes so much better than the ABC does.

However, this was never Channel Seven's fault. The WAFL has for many, many years always rated very well on a Saturday afternoon in Perth. The commercial networks have always been interested in getting the rights. But the WAFC has always awarded them to the ABC instead. Exactly why, I don't know. But I have long suspected it is due to pressure from the AFL not wanting the WAFL competing with their product on commercial TV.

The local newspapers also stopped reporting on local games to any reasonable level.

I have to disagree with this. I think The West Australian newspaper has been a good supporter of the WAFL and so have some community papers.

No support from the media, people stop going to the games and start to forget the comp even exists, especially when there is a new sporting franchise in town with big bucks to spend on promotion.

I think the big problem is that the TV news bulletins stopped covering the WAFL. Look at the weekend news broadcasts. The WAFL gets the weekend game scores mentioned and that's it! They don't even show the ladder any more, let alone any highlights package of weekend action. And they don't promote any games for the coming weekend. If a commercial station had the TV rights, I think they would be inclined to change this, especially if say it was Channel Nine with the WAFL rights and competing against the AFL on Seven-Ten.

While not saying the AFL is 'Evil' I would certainly say they are not very nice and they certainly don't have the WAFL's best interests at heart.

The AFL cares about the AFL. Full stop. One of the major problems is how football is structured in this country. The AFL is now the governing body nationally, although obviously we have the WAFC in WA. And of course the greedy AFL is after more power and control wanting to swallow up the Eagles and Dockers licences!

But back in the 1980s there was a body called the National Australia Football Council which was a body independent of the VFL and state league competitions. That's how it should be again. Having the AFL in charge is like having the fox in charge of the henhouse. They look after their own competition and don't give a rats about the state leagues or state-of-origin footy! One of the best things that could happen for the Aussie Rules code is for it to have an independent governing body.

Personally, I think Sico17 is right about one thing. There's a lot more the WAFL clubs could do to promote the game to AFL followers. I have never understood why they haven't been able to work out a way to play WAFL-AFL double-headers, so at least that way the AFL fans are exposed to more WAFL action.

 

[Sico 17]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Yes I did read it, as I previously stated, it was a load of old cobblers.

Your promotional ideas have some merit but I seriously doubt that the bulk of Eagles and Dockers fans could give a toss about what happens in the local league, in fact most of them stopped caring a long time ago.

Nice cheap shot at fans of the WAFL. Did you stop to think that maybe they like the comp as it is and don't want it subsumed into a practice ground for the AFL listed players?

Well they can take it as it is, don't generate any new fans for any of the teams or the comp, watch it slowly die as the only people who remember the late 80's die off and probably whinge and moan about it the whole way.

Or they can remind the fans of the two AFL clubs, primarily in the age bracket of 30-50, that the comp is still around. If you ask them if they support a WAFL club most would say "I supported X as a kid but I haven't been in a while". Get these people back to WAFL games, get them to bring their kids/grandkids and give the next generation of football fans interest in their parents teams.

If that next generation of football fans has no interest or no team they support in the WAFL it will be A Grade of the amateurs in 20 years.

Perhaps you can tell me how the WAFL is going to function with most of it's talent shuffled of interstate or concentrated into two teams?
You did read that part of my rant didn't you?

If this plan goes ahead there won't be any spectator success to be shared around, the WAFL will just lose what integrity it has left as a competition in it's own right.

Why should I when I have twice said I agree that this idea is not a good idea. I will repeat that because it seems you are struggling with it, I agree it is not a good idea. That doesn't stop me or others looking at other ideas to try and increase interest in the comp

 

[pablo668]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Well they can take it as it is, don't generate any new fans for any of the teams or the comp, watch it slowly die as the only people who remember the late 80's die off and probably whinge and moan about it the whole way.

Or they can remind the fans of the two AFL clubs, primarily in the age bracket of 30-50, that the comp is still around. If you ask them if they support a WAFL club most would say "I supported X as a kid but I haven't been in a while". Get these people back to WAFL games, get them to bring their kids/grandkids and give the next generation of football fans interest in their parents teams.

If that next generation of football fans has no interest or no team they support in the WAFL it will be A Grade of the amateurs in 20 years.





Why should I when I have twice said I agree that this idea is not a good idea. I will repeat that because it seems you are struggling with it, I agree it is not a good idea. That doesn't stop me or others looking at other ideas to try and increase interest in the comp

Well I agree with most of that actually, except your typefying WAFL fans as moaners and whingers.

If you stated that that it is not a good idea then I must have missed it, so mea culpa on that.

As a WAFL fan one of the things I have done is made sure that I got my kids along with me to watch the footy at my local club. They are both now big fans.

Just an aside, there were WAFL games used as curtain raisers at Eagles game back in the early to mid nineties, possibly some in the eighties too from memory.
Not sure what the reception was to be honest.

 

[pablo668]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Not having the WAFL covered by a commercial network has definitely been a major problem. I have long said that as long as WAFL TV coverage remains exclusively with the ABC, it will never go anywhere. People are simply more inclined to watch the commercial networks than the ABC. Plus the commercial networks market their programmes so much better than the ABC does.

However, this was never Channel Seven's fault. The WAFL has for many, many years always rated very well on a Saturday afternoon in Perth. The commercial networks have always been interested in getting the rights. But the WAFC has always awarded them to the ABC instead. Exactly why, I don't know. But I have long suspected it is due to pressure from the AFL not wanting the WAFL competing with their product on commercial TV.



I have to disagree with this. I think The West Australian newspaper has been a good supporter of the WAFL and so have some community papers.



I think the big problem is that the TV news bulletins stopped covering the WAFL. Look at the weekend news broadcasts. The WAFL gets the weekend game scores mentioned and that's it! They don't even show the ladder any more, let alone any highlights package of weekend action. And they don't promote any games for the coming weekend. If a commercial station had the TV rights, I think they would be inclined to change this, especially if say it was Channel Nine with the WAFL rights and competing against the AFL on Seven-Ten.



The AFL cares about the AFL. Full stop. One of the major problems is how football is structured in this country. The AFL is now the governing body nationally, although obviously we have the WAFC in WA. And of course the greedy AFL is after more power and control wanting to swallow up the Eagles and Dockers licences!

But back in the 1980s there was a body called the National Australia Football Council which was a body independent of the VFL and state league competitions. That's how it should be again. Having the AFL in charge is like having the fox in charge of the henhouse. They look after their own competition and don't give a rats about the state leagues or state-of-origin footy! One of the best things that could happen for the Aussie Rules code is for it to have an independent governing body.

Personally, I think Sico17 is right about one thing. There's a lot more the WAFL clubs could do to promote the game to AFL followers. I have never understood why they haven't been able to work out a way to play WAFL-AFL double-headers, so at least that way the AFL fans are exposed to more WAFL action.

Ok, how much is channel sevens fault I don't know in any accurate way.
What I do remember as a kid is that both ABC and Seven used to televise the WAFL, including World of Football on sunday mornings.
If you wanted VFL you had to wait until sunday night on the ABC for 'The Winners'.
Somewhere in the early eighties that all changed, whatever happened to the rights Seven stopped televising WAFL and all of a sudden most of the footy on that channel was VFL, especially after the inception of the Eagles.
The newspapers were much the same, the WAFL went from being In the first couple pages of the Sports section to right at the back if it was in there at all.
I agree with you on the news broadcasts.

I was hoping that the soon to be starting Foxtel cup would be a step in the right direction as far as increasing the profile of the WAFL.

 

[swannies]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

I know it's off topic, but I'll follow the direction of the thread, ie it's everyone else's fault. But rather than blame everyone else, I've been on the WAFL's case to promote itself better for years. You've got to start by doing what you can to help yourself.

For quite a few years the only promotion the WAFL got was what Bronte did via AHG. If he didn't take out the full page ads/promos in the paper at the beginning of the season, nothing was done. Gradually that has changed and now 94.5 are having a player from each WAFL team on Fri mornings each week, to discuss anything but football it appears, but it's promotion and it's obviously what the audience wants, because media outlets don't do it without getting a benefit. The WAFL finally seems to be learning how to play the game.

Anyhow, was interested to hear Hansen's views on the AFL teams having a reserves in the WAFL. He thought it would benefit the players mostly, because when an AFL player comes back to their WAFL team, they displace a WAFL player and it can be frustrating for those players, so it will give more a chance to shine. Interesting, or not?

 

[gytre]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

What I do remember as a kid is that both ABC and Seven used to televise the WAFL, including World of Football on sunday mornings. If you wanted VFL you had to wait until sunday night on the ABC for 'The Winners'.

I remember those days as well. The ABC televised full games into regional areas, but not metro areas because city folks were expected to attend games and contribute to crowds and gate takings. The ABC had a wonderful hour long show on Saturdays at 6pm called Today's Football which summised all four Saturday WAFL games and showed highlights from at least two. Dennis Cometti hosted that show for a couple of years before he started coaching West Perth.

Then yes, Seven had World Of Football on Sunday mornings that went for two hours and showed highlights from all four games and had interviews, competitions and all sorts of fun stuff. Seven would then screen Sydney Swans home games on Sundays at 12pm.

Somewhere in the early eighties that all changed, whatever happened to the rights Seven stopped televising WAFL and all of a sudden most of the footy on that channel was VFL, especially after the inception of the Eagles.

The first year of the Eagles joining the VFL was 1987 and that was the year the VFL completely botched their new TV rights deal. They gave the TV broadcasting rights to a company called Sportsplay which provided games to the ABC. So Seven was without live games for the 1987 season. The VFL quickly saw the error of their ways and Seven got the rights back in 1988.

But of course a big part of the problem is syndicating and the fact that the networks these days simply don't put the same funding into their local branches. So there was no more locally produced show. Only The Western Front on Ten.

The newspapers were much the same, the WAFL went from being In the first couple pages of the Sports section to right at the back if it was in there at all.

I still think you're being a little harsh here. Realistically the Eagles were always going to dominate the back pages post 1986, but The West Australian continued to give pretty good coverage to the WAFL. Certainly compared to the TV networks anyway.

I was hoping that the soon to be starting Foxtel cup would be a step in the right direction as far as increasing the profile of the WAFL.

That's what I'm hoping for too.

 

[masai]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Talking about promoting the WAFL, the ABC radio is regularly pushing the WAFL along with Russell Wulff, Peter Kennedy (last years) and the sports crew.

On the WAFL, it can gain by promoting it as family friendly. Kids can roll on the grass, actually touch their heroes and have a kick on the ground.

 

[swannies]

Re: AFL Clubs want own reserves team in WAFL

Talking about promoting the WAFL, the ABC radio is regularly pushing the WAFL along with Russell Wulff, Peter Kennedy (last years) and the sports crew.

On the WAFL, it can gain by promoting it as family friendly. Kids can roll on the grass, actually touch their heroes and have a kick on the ground.

Yep, that's what I've said for years. I wonder if the quarter and 3/4 time huddles would stay if the Eagles and Dockers got teams in the comp. Would they then want to protect their players by not having that close a physical presence with the spectators?