WAFL Reborn

[DAT8]

The WAFL is really struggling at the moment with keeping up with the AFL. The crowds were low last season and most people at the games i go to every week are old. What do you think the WAFL should add in to be more fan friendly?

 

[MortlockWatcher]

The WAFL is really struggling at the moment with keeping up with the AFL. The crowds were low last season and most people at the games i go to every week are old. What do you think the WAFL should add in to be more fan friendly?

AFL doesn't want the WAFL to be a competitor which takes away crowds from them.

The WAFL should have no AFL Reserves sides and have an eight team competition playing 21 rounds with a final Four (like it was for many years).
The side to go or the sides to merge to make up the eight is open to debate.
There should be more engagement with country regions (more matches - pre-season or home and away). From memory, there was only one game (in Mount Barker) last year and I remember seasons with 4-5 games in places like Kununurra, Kalannie, Wongan Hills, Geraldton, Kalgoorlie and Esperance.

Eagles and Dockers should have Reserves sides in an AFL Reserves League.

 

[DAT8]

AFL doesn't want the WAFL to be a competitor which takes away crowds from them.

The WAFL should have no AFL Reserves sides and have an eight team competition playing 21 rounds with a final Four (like it was for many years).
The side to go or the sides to merge to make up the eight is open to debate.
There should be more engagement with country regions (more matches - pre-season or home and away). From memory, there was only one game (in Mount Barker) last year and I remember seasons with 4-5 games in places like Kununurra, Kalannie, Wongan Hills, Geraldton, Kalgoorlie and Esperance.

Eagles and Dockers should have Reserves sides in an AFL Reserves League.

I agree , an AFL reserves would help the WAFL as well as SANFL. Do you think there should be a couple of mergers?

 

[masai]

Here's a bit of radical thinking :-

Swan's to gobble up ( sorry merge with ) the Demons.

Subi and Claremont to share their Volvo's & Saab's, and merge.

New team from the South West, eg. Bunbury Bogans.

Ignore what ever East Perth say.

There's your 8 team competition, played over 3 rotations ( 3 x 7 teams = 21 games ).

 

[Underdog]

Work with the WAAFL to schedule byes into the season, offer free tickets to the amateur clubs and offer a few footies to make attendance a compulsory team activity (money will be recouped at the bar).

The WAFL need to expose them to the great family friendly environment so that when those blokes give away footy, they take the kids to the WAFL or go down for some cheap cans with their mates. As it stands, these guys have largely no exposure to WAFL footy due to fixture clashes. They're the future because they are young and already invested in grassroots footy.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Why should the WAAFL and its 60+ clubs screech to a complete halt for a weekend just so players could go to a WAFL game, a highly unlikely prospect. There is no comparison between the AFL and the WAFL for these guys (remembering that $15 per adult for admission is a lot more than anyone pays to go to a metro or country footy, so getting repeat attendees after a one-off freebie is unlikely).

A better idea would be to have Friday night or Saturday night WAFL games.

 

[Underdog]

How dare I propose an idea out of the box. I'm not suggesting all clubs have a bye on the same weekend. Plus I think it would foster a better relationship between the WAFL clubs and their local clubs.

You may disagree but your idea has been tried countless times and nobody goes. There has to be a significant change.

 

[Shaneh71]

Why not a Team out of the South West.It would help grow the WAFL in the Country Areas

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Why not a Team out of the South West.It would help grow the WAFL in the Country Areas

I know that Kalgoorlie were encouraged and went as far as naming their side the Kalgoorlie Miners and lodging a formal submission but apparently it went severely south after that and never came about. I am not sure about a second effort for such a move, especially if it meant going to 10, 11 or 12 sides.

I know that SW was encouraged to apply at the same time but I am not sure how the story unfolded.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

How dare I propose an idea out of the box. I'm not suggesting all clubs have a bye on the same weekend. Plus I think it would foster a better relationship between the WAFL clubs and their local clubs.

You may disagree but your idea has been tried countless times and nobody goes. There has to be a significant change.

I am not totally shit-canning the idea, but can see it would be hard for it to be a resounding success.

My experience of grassroots footy in city and country areas is that they wouldn't want to forego a round of matches for such a proposal.

The Amateurs do have a bye the week before the WA Day weekend (for rep footy?) so that would be the ideal weekend. It would depend on what AFL matches (and WAFL matches) are on that weekend as to how successful the proposal would be.

On the country side of things, anyone 3+ hours from Perth would more than likely be ambivalent towards it as they have issues with work, travel, accommodation and the like ($100-150 for petrol, $150 for accommodation and then the general costs associated with going to a game) could be problematic for a family for one weekend. In addition, they have enough byes for Colts Carnivals, Landmark Carnivals and Easter during the season. One country league that I know of is scheduled to have one club round in 20 days in the middle of the 2016 season, so there would be issues with synchronising such a day between the WAFL and the other 29 leagues from around the state.

The hype associated with the AFL and the volume of news stories it develops just overwhelms even the most positive WAFL stories. Even the country and night games tried so far have not worked as a result (one country game in 2015 after being as many as 4-5 a couple of seasons ago). The AFL are more worried about more Eagles and Dockers members than having 20,000 at a Port Derby or 45,000 at a WAFL Grand Final because such successes mean that these people could be going to AFL games instead and spending more money on club memberships, reserved seats, memorabilia and merchandise.

 

[Underdog]

I didn't mention anything about country leagues, just the WAAFL. Perhaps some temporary sponsorship signage can be offered to the WAAFL clubs so they can offer a more premium sponsorship deal.

I'd say it's more about utilising the current byes and/or stretching the season a week or two. Not all clubs need to be involved the same week.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The WAFL is falling away for many reasons in my view.
First and foremost is the WAFC would rather keep AFL house happy than their own WAFL clubs, the WAFC is run by AFL puppets who wants what is best only for the AFL clubs and not what is best for the WAFL clubs.
Their lack of advertising of their product, their poor TV deal with the AFL partner network, their complete and utter distain for the history of the WAFL and the lack of promotion of their finals series are just some of many examples of a very poorly managed product.
The nine WAFL clubs should run the WAFL, the WAFC can still be the parent but the WAFL clubs run their own comp, get away from channel 7 and get a TV channel that want to promote their product. Nine would be a good start as they wanted to do it but could not get a meeting with the WAFC which is mind boggling to say the least.
They should make Sunday night their footy domain, the AFL clearly don't like this timeslot so it makes sense to jump on it. Have a night WAFL grand final next year with a huge celebration of WA footy history, get a huge band like Cold chisel etc to perform, fireworks and heavily promoted by a decent TV partner. Huge pre game with all the trimmings.
Lets face it the Eagles and Dockers don't seem to be in any hurry to celebrate WA footy history, been waiting 30 years and still nothing as yet so when are we going to let people know about our rich history?
Play the preliminary final and Grand final after the AFL grand final.
No alignment sides or AFL reserves side to play finals. Play for points all year but as those clubs don't care about finals there is no point in them participating.

And if really serious about saving the WAFL and or the SANFL for that matter then the two leagues should join forces and play some type of knock out comp during the year on Monday nights with a huge prize attached to it and no AFL involvement what so ever.

All that being said the AFL have buried the WAFL, the Eagles and Dockers have jumped in and helped them do it and I think to be honest the WAFL is pretty much doomed now, unless someone with a huge amount of money and clout stand up for them I don't see the them surviving as any type of comp in the future.

 

[Silent Alarm]

I think $15 is waaay too much for a regular entry. I reckon 8 bucks or so.

Basically the competition is losing its relevance as people watch the AFL on TV, and then play during the weekend. That's all they have and much more footy tends to swallow up far too much time. I loved a lazy afternoon at the WAFL but the reality is, it's only something most casual footy fans do 2-5 times a year. Not sure how to change that.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

The WAFL is falling away for many reasons in my view.
First and foremost is the WAFC would rather keep AFL house happy than their own WAFL clubs, the WAFC is run by AFL puppets who wants what is best only for the AFL clubs and not what is best for the WAFL clubs.
Their lack of advertising of their product, their poor TV deal with the AFL partner network, their complete and utter distain for the history of the WAFL and the lack of promotion of their finals series are just some of many examples of a very poorly managed product.
The nine WAFL clubs should run the WAFL, the WAFC can still be the parent but the WAFL clubs run their own comp, get away from channel 7 and get a TV channel that want to promote their product. Nine would be a good start as they wanted to do it but could not get a meeting with the WAFC which is mind boggling to say the least.
They should make Sunday night their footy domain, the AFL clearly don't like this timeslot so it makes sense to jump on it. Have a night WAFL grand final next year with a huge celebration of WA footy history, get a huge band like Cold chisel etc to perform, fireworks and heavily promoted by a decent TV partner. Huge pre game with all the trimmings.
Lets face it the Eagles and Dockers don't seem to be in any hurry to celebrate WA footy history, been waiting 30 years and still nothing as yet so when are we going to let people know about our rich history?
Play the preliminary final and Grand final after the AFL grand final.
No alignment sides or AFL reserves side to play finals. Play for points all year but as those clubs don't care about finals there is no point in them participating.

And if really serious about saving the WAFL and or the SANFL for that matter then the two leagues should join forces and play some type of knock out comp during the year on Monday nights with a huge prize attached to it and no AFL involvement what so ever.

All that being said the AFL have buried the WAFL, the Eagles and Dockers have jumped in and helped them do it and I think to be honest the WAFL is pretty much doomed now, unless someone with a huge amount of money and clout stand up for them I don't see the them surviving as any type of comp in the future.

Clap clap clap ... I agree with pretty much all of this. I do like the SWFL having the last Grand Final in the country each year and they get a number of people travel down from Perth, but the WAFL need to look into their GF date - the free Sunday after the AFL Preliminary Finals should work but isn't.

The WAFL/SANFL comp would need a large sponsorship(s) to make it viable in terms of airfare costs as well as some attractive prizemoney so it doesn't become Mickey Mouse quickly.

 

[Krazy Kris]

Demise of the Foxtel Cup has sealed the deal with WAFL.

Gone are the days where winning a flag was prestige, but rather now is being the best of a mediocre bunch - that is, if you don't have AFL players saturating your team like EP/Peel do now.

Its sad, that when we do win our first flag, it's going to come because of that, and not home grown talent.

There's nothing in it. It's become a reserves league, just like the VFL, devoid of passion from any but the most hardened of supporters.

Ever since the AFL alignment it's gone to bollocks.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

I know that Kalgoorlie were encouraged and went as far as naming their side the Kalgoorlie Miners and lodging a formal submission but apparently it went severely south after that and never came about. I am not sure about a second effort for such a move, especially if it meant going to 10, 11 or 12 sides.

I know that SW was encouraged to apply at the same time but I am not sure how the story unfolded.

From what I can recall, the SWNFL, Kalgoorlie City FC and Geraldton all submitted applications in 1991. Kalgoorlie City did it without the approval of the GFL but the SW was apparently done by the league. I am not sure about Gero.

GFL said they would not clear KC as it would destroy their local comp.

The country expansion ship has sailed long ago now for good or for bad - clubs would never vote in such a way to put their existence under threat for the sake of a WAFL side which realistically bring more harm than good to football in these regions.

Anyone know anything more detailed about what happened in 1991?

 

[MortlockWatcher]

from 'Gravel Rash' by Les Everett

Goldfields (Kalgoorlie City) WAFL bid in 1991
* In July 1991, Kalgoorlie City FC submitted a proposal to the WAFC for entering a side in the WAFL from season 1993. The bid used the nickname of the ‘Miners’.

* The intention was to run a composite side in the WAFL, whilst still fielding teams in the GFL. The WAFL side was expected to draw players from the Goldfields, Esperance and Merredin region which would hopefully be zoned to the Miners.

* A meeting in October endorsed the proposal, though two of the GFL five clubs were against the proposal, with two in favour and one abstainer. Railways were of the belief that the first priority was to get the running of the GFL in order first, whilst Boulder saw the WAFL side as being for the good of football.

* 1992 saw Goldfields win the A Section title at the Wesfarmers Championships to demonstrate the playing quality of the league, but delegations from only three of the eight WAFL clubs took up an invitation from the bid committee to look at the proposal and facilities at first hand in June 1992.

* September 1992, WAFC chairman Peter Tannock indicated a willingness for a one-year licence for the 1994 season, but later in the year said that the WAFC clubs needed to support the move for the admission of the Miners and a South-West side based in Bunbury.

* An independent review in April 1993 found that there would be no significant detrimental effect on the eight WAFL clubs or country leagues or burden the WAFC if the two teams were admitted.

* Despite offering $2m of financial inducements to the eight WAFL clubs in May 1993, the following month saw the clubs vote 7-1 to reject the two licence bids – only Perth voted in favour.

 

[Phlanispo]

A lot of it comes down to the complete lack of any media coverage. A lot of this can be attributed to the fact that all WAFL games are on at the same time. It's hard to get a grasp for the whole league when both people and outlets can only go the one game a weekend. I've been trying to listen to some WAFL podcasts, but it just doesn't work since half the hosts haven't seen the same games. If you didn't go to a game, it's very hard to get a grasp of what actually happened. Looking at stats certainly helps, but there needs to be more. Unfortunately, having WAFL games at different times over the weekend would be a scheduling nightmare, as they have to avoid conflicting with AFL games.

This probably won't happen because of Channel 7's hold on the game, but since all WAFL matches are filmed anyway, they should be cut into brief highlights and embedded within the WAFL match centres. There doesn't need to be commentary.

Although Channel 7's involvement this year has been negative in certain aspects, it's helped the sport as a whole. The WAFL is simply not part of the public consciousness, but having a major television network tied to the brand has certainly helped. I didn't know the WAFL even existed as a kid. I had seen the logos for the clubs on top of Subiaco Oval's gates, but there wasn't much else exposure to me. A lot of kids simply don't know that the WAFL exists. And even when they know about the WAFL, tearing them apart from their beloved Eagles or Dockers is hard. Unless their parents take them to games, of course.

And therein lies the problem; only the diehard WAFL fans are taking their kids. Only the people who were going to WAFL games to begin with. So how do we attract these new fans? I don't quite know the answer.

Shifting off topic, I hold a contrary opinion to everyone else; the AFL alignment is good for the game. It's gets people to channel their love for their AFL team into East Perth or Peel. It's similar to the argument for the women's competition that will begin in 2017. The AFL could create brand spanking new teams like the Brisbane Barbies or the Perth Sexistnames, but they get more eyes on the product if they are directly affiliated with the AFL team they already love. This leads to more people going to WAFL games, which is what we are after, right? I met a guy with a Peel hat at the WAFL Grand Final, and he said he got into the WAFL so he could see how the Fremantle young'uns were doing.

~~~

I shall shift off topic once more to explain how I gained an interest in the WAFL. I have anxiety, and going to AFL matches is quite scary for me. At the beginning of 2015, I decided the best way to get over my fear was to go to WAFL games, and tackle the fear of large crowds on a smaller scale. This helped and gave me the confidence to go West Coast vs Gold Coast in May. Now that I had largely gotten over my fear, I didn't have any need to go to WAFL games. But I went anyway. I got myself to 5 WAFL games, including the Grand Final. I intended to go to as many games as possible so I could choose a team, but scheduling conflicts with Gold Coast matches, combined with not having anyone to go with or talk to, meant I went to far fewer than I intended. It's hard to have that drive when the people around you don't know what the WAFL actually is. I don't have a team yet, I guess I'm narrowing it down to Swan Districts or Perth.

Sorry for this extremely rambly post, I just had to get all my thoughts about the WAFL in off me in one go.

tl;dr The WAFL is not part of the public consciousness, and that needs to change before anything can be done. The AFL alignments are good.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

A lot of it comes down to the complete lack of any media coverage. A lot of this can be attributed to the fact that all WAFL games are on at the same time. It's hard to get a grasp for the whole league when both people and outlets can only go the one game a weekend. I've been trying to listen to some WAFL podcasts, but it just doesn't work since half the hosts haven't seen the same games. If you didn't go to a game, it's very hard to get a grasp of what actually happened. Looking at stats certainly helps, but there needs to be more. Unfortunately, having WAFL games at different times over the weekend would be a scheduling nightmare, as they have to avoid conflicting with AFL games.

This probably won't happen because of Channel 7's hold on the game, but since all WAFL matches are filmed anyway, they should be cut into brief highlights and embedded within the WAFL match centres. There doesn't need to be commentary.

Although Channel 7's involvement this year has been negative in certain aspects, it's helped the sport as a whole. The WAFL is simply not part of the public consciousness, but having a major television network tied to the brand has certainly helped. I didn't know the WAFL even existed as a kid. I had seen the logos for the clubs on top of Subiaco Oval's gates, but there wasn't much else exposure to me. A lot of kids simply don't know that the WAFL exists. And even when they know about the WAFL, tearing them apart from their beloved Eagles or Dockers is hard. Unless their parents take them to games, of course.

And therein lies the problem; only the diehard WAFL fans are taking their kids. Only the people who were going to WAFL games to begin with. So how do we attract these new fans? I don't quite know the answer.

Shifting off topic, I hold a contrary opinion to everyone else; the AFL alignment is good for the game. It's gets people to channel their love for their AFL team into East Perth or Peel. It's similar to the argument for the women's competition that will begin in 2017. The AFL could create brand spanking new teams like the Brisbane Barbies or the Perth Sexistnames, but they get more eyes on the product if they are directly affiliated with the AFL team they already love. This leads to more people going to WAFL games, which is what we are after, right? I met a guy with a Peel hat at the WAFL Grand Final, and he said he got into the WAFL so he could see how the Fremantle young'uns were doing.

~~~

I shall shift off topic once more to explain how I gained an interest in the WAFL. I have anxiety, and going to AFL matches is quite scary for me. At the beginning of 2015, I decided the best way to get over my fear was to go to WAFL games, and tackle the fear of large crowds on a smaller scale. This helped and gave me the confidence to go West Coast vs Gold Coast in May. Now that I had largely gotten over my fear, I didn't have any need to go to WAFL games. But I went anyway. I got myself to 5 WAFL games, including the Grand Final. I intended to go to as many games as possible so I could choose a team, but scheduling conflicts with Gold Coast matches, combined with not having anyone to go with or talk to, meant I went to far fewer than I intended. It's hard to have that drive when the people around you don't know what the WAFL actually is. I don't have a team yet, I guess I'm narrowing it down to Swan Districts or Perth.

Sorry for this extremely rambly post, I just had to get all my thoughts about the WAFL in off me in one go.

tl;dr The WAFL is not part of the public consciousness, and that needs to change before anything can be done. The AFL alignments are good.

The WAFL will never regain its former status but it certainly could do much better. The reason young people know nothing about is mainly because of exposure as you said. Channel 7 has not helped that at all as they are the AFL partner and no way in hell will they promote another comp fully. This is why 7 got the gig. They did not put a cent into it and the WAFL has to pay 7's cost for broadcasting their games. Channel 9 and 10 could not even get a meeting and both were prepared to cover their own costs so that shows you how much influence the AFL have over the WAFL.
Young people also like only being seen at elite things, it's not cool to go to the WAFL it is cool to go to the AFL.
As for your thoughts re alignment that may be correct for new supporters. I myself have no issue with the alignment except how it is operated.
An aligned club should get only 1/4 of the salary cap yet they still get to spend over 3/4 of the cap and get 24 AFL listed players on their list.
In my view if you align then you now have thrown your eggs into the AFL clubs basket, your clubs success must rely on the AFL club. That's the drawback from the alignment.
East Perth exist purely in name now, the Eagles run them. Eagles are happy but not sure how happy East Perth supporters really are.
My opinion is Eagles enter their own side, The dockers take over Peel Thunder officially and be called the Peel dockers.
10 team comp with both the Eagles and Dockers not playing finals. They have no interest in winning the WAFL so their games during the year will be exactly what they see them as, scratch matches.

 

[Silent Alarm]

lol people not knowing what the WAFL is. I grew up in the 1990s and although I had a dad right into footy and who grew up with Souths as a staple, I still would've known about the WAFL if I didn't have that. Kids grow up in WA with Auskick, but there's still a fair bit of affiliation with your zone. I had heaps of Claremont stickers and footys (even though I hate them) and had an awareness.

The issue is that people have busy lives and also only a small part of their lives willing to dedicate to sport. People can't just constantly pay money to watch football. People can't even constantly pay money to go to events – especially if they have concerts, shows, holidays et al. Between playing and following your AFL side, how much of your weekend can really fairly go to the WAFL?

 

[masai]

Although Channel 7's involvement this year has been negative in certain aspects, it's helped the sport as a whole. The WAFL is simply not part of the public consciousness, but having a major television network tied to the brand has certainly helped. I didn't know the WAFL even existed as a kid. I had seen the logos for the clubs on top of Subiaco Oval's gates, but there wasn't much else exposure to me. A lot of kids simply don't know that the WAFL exists. And even when they know about the WAFL, tearing them apart from their beloved Eagles or Dockers is hard. Unless their parents take them to games, of course.

Ever heard of a major television network, called the ABC ?.

Broadcast every Saturday at 2.20 pm.

 

[Freofalcon]

I don't understand why more people don't take their kids to the WAFL.

I'm a Cardie but I live around the corner from Bassendean Oval. I'm also a Freo member but until the new stadium is built, I can't take my kids. If there is a game on at Swans, I will go down with my boys and spend the afternoon there and they love it.

They get to watch footy, kick to kick on the oval, ice cream and junk food and it costs me next to nothing.

It's a hidden gem more people should take advantage of.

 

[Kram]

I think $15 is waaay too much for a regular entry. I reckon 8 bucks or so.

waaay too much? What can you get for $15 these days? Maybe could be a bit cheaper, especially the concession at $12 for which many are probably young people with no kids coming in with them for free.

 

[shrekswamp15]

The WAFL will never regain its former status but it certainly could do much better. The reason young people know nothing about is mainly because of exposure as you said. Channel 7 has not helped that at all as they are the AFL partner and no way in hell will they promote another comp fully. This is why 7 got the gig. They did not put a cent into it and the WAFL has to pay 7's cost for broadcasting their games. Channel 9 and 10 could not even get a meeting and both were prepared to cover their own costs so that shows you how much influence the AFL have over the WAFL.
Young people also like only being seen at elite things, it's not cool to go to the WAFL it is cool to go to the AFL.
As for your thoughts re alignment that may be correct for new supporters. I myself have no issue with the alignment except how it is operated.
An aligned club should get only 1/4 of the salary cap yet they still get to spend over 3/4 of the cap and get 24 AFL listed players on their list.
In my view if you align then you now have thrown your eggs into the AFL clubs basket, your clubs success must rely on the AFL club. That's the drawback from the alignment.
East Perth exist purely in name now, the Eagles run them. Eagles are happy but not sure how happy East Perth supporters really are.
My opinion is Eagles enter their own side, The dockers take over Peel Thunder officially and be called the Peel dockers.
10 team comp with both the Eagles and Dockers not playing finals. They have no interest in winning the WAFL so their games during the year will be exactly what they see them as, scratch matches.

East Perth exists purely in name? Yes the club is supported by west coast but the core of the club is blue and black not blue and gold, I believe east Perth and peel enjoyed some of the higher crowd numbers in the WAFL last season because people want to come and watch the AFL listed players, yes some of the hardened supporters aee turning away but the league is luring younger supporters. The prime example would be when Jack Darling played that game for the royals against swans at bassendean, there was nearly 4,000 people there purely to see Darling play, swans then capitalised and turned it into a family day and probably made more money from that game than any other last season, yes there are some negatives from the alignements but the positives are clearly there, Peel has never been stronger and Mandurah footy has never been at the height it is either, you have to look at both sides of the coin.

 

[Spearhead]

East Perth exists purely in name? Yes the club is supported by west coast but the core of the club is blue and black not blue and gold, I believe east Perth and peel enjoyed some of the higher crowd numbers in the WAFL last season because people want to come and watch the AFL listed players, yes some of the hardened supporters aee turning away but the league is luring younger supporters. The prime example would be when Jack Darling played that game for the royals against swans at bassendean, there was nearly 4,000 people there purely to see Darling play, swans then capitalised and turned it into a family day and probably made more money from that game than any other last season, yes there are some negatives from the alignements but the positives are clearly there, Peel has never been stronger and Mandurah footy has never been at the height it is either, you have to look at both sides of the coin.

Absolute horse sh!t buddy
-Peel were near the bottom in crowd numbers yet again
-The 4k at the SD vs WCE Reserves game was in fact largely due to in large to it being our junior council day as you will find all clubs get a big spike in attendances on their respective junior council day game