War has started

gbear · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by dreamkillers
I don't think you'll find many of us 'anti-war' crowd saying Saddam is a good guy..........but the Iraqi people are a long way off of being truly free and independant once he's gone..........there are plenty of other extreme groups waiting in the wings to show their power and might on it's citizens............

I agree, however at present we are in a situation that we are damned if we do and we are damned if we don't. If the world waits any longer to act, it could be looking at an even larger humantarian disaster than we are facing now. Biological weapons are frightening enough, give him more time and he may well get his hands on nuclear weapons.

dreamkillers · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by gbear
I agree, however at present we are in a situation that we are damned if we do and we are damned if we don't. If the world waits any longer to act, it could be looking at an even larger humantarian disaster than we are facing now. Biological weapons are frightening enough, give him more time and he may well get his hands on nuclear weapons.

A bit like those shells the US pepper Iraq with and the radiation problems they cause to innocent people........

I just don't think war was the only available option left to the world when the attack was launched..........

War never really solves anything and in some ways just creates more problems and hatred...........

gbear · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by dreamkillers
A bit like those shells the US pepper Iraq with and the radiation problems they cause to innocent people........

I just don't think war was the only available option left to the world when the attack was launched..........

War never really solves anything and in some ways just creates more problems and hatred...........

Perhaps not, but when do you say enough is enough?
It is highly unlikely that Saddam would ever comply. We are talking about a leader who expelled weapons inspectors in 1998 and only allowed them to reenter late last year, due to the pressure applied by the US.

dreamkillers · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by gbear
Perhaps not, but when do you say enough is enough?
It is highly unlikely that Saddam would ever comply. We are talking about a leader who expelled weapons inspectors in 1998 and only allowed them to reenter late last year, due to the pressure applied by the US.

Not sure we were about to here from Blix as to what remained and the European nations on the Security Council were drafting up a resolution to give them a certain number of months to comply.

My biggest fear is that the US will break their promises and leave Iraq like they did Afghanistan where the tribal leaders are againing taking control of the government that was put in place and look at the mess they left in Israel...........

The US don't have a good reputation of finishing the jobs they set out to do........

And will they then carry on their terrorist clean up campaign in other countries that harbour terrorists.........including some of their allies in this conflict

PAfolwr · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by myee8
Tell me this then DD17 if you think Bush is the number one terrorist:

Is Bush (or even Blair or Howard) going to hijack a plane with innocent people and fly it into an Iraqi tower? Is Bush, Blair or Howard going to place a bomb outside a nightclub full of people enjoying themselves and detonate it? Is Bush, Blair or Howard going to tell their soldiers to strap themselves with bombs and explosives, wear some civilian clothes over it, and blow themselves up in a crowded marketplace? Is Bush, Blair, or Howard going to pay the families of these suicide bombers $25, 000 for the efforts of their son or daughter? Is Bush, Blair, or Howard going to attack their own people with chemical weapons? I think not.

There are plenty of people that have come to Australia from Chile in the early seventies.
Why don't you ask one of them what people like Bush are capable of.
You are being a bit too simplistic there.

tashibatts · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by gbear
If you all think Howard is such a bad leader, why don't we just invite Saddam to come to Australia and be our leader, seeing he is such a good guy! At least the Iraqi people would be free from this tyrant.

I don't neccesarily think Howard is a bad leader, I just think he is weak and pathetic. He is so far up Bush's ar$e it isnt funny and he is happily sendin thousands of people to Iraq to risk their lives while he sits around in Australia surrounded by security guards & what not.. and he is happy to go to war- others aren't happy about war- but u know why? Because Howard has all those security guards, if he had a tomato thrown at him, he wouldnt care because his security guards would just deal with hte person who threw it or stand in front of him so he didnt get hit.

The people going to Iraq dont have such protection - they are there own protection..

Theres almost no chance that John Howard will be killed in this war, in fact- he probably wont be touched by the war, he will just go further up Bush's arse- while others do the hard work.

As I said- he is weak.

Go Roos

Sydneyfan · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by goaldrush

It means that the people who are against the war means that they are against everything that the australian government has done.

If you are against the war we will be attacked by terrorists. That's why there is a war against it. We want to prevent terrorism. So give them a taste of their own medicine and bomb them and kill the terrorists and the governments that condone it.

I've finally worked out just who you are Suzi ....

you're George W Bush, aren't you?

tashibatts · Mar 20, 2003

It means that the people who are against the war means that they are against everything that the australian government has done.

Wrong Wrong Wrong- I am against Howard acting like he is some bigshot- when throughout this war he is going to contribute a few words which are meant to make us all feel ok about the war and make us a happy little family- and that is it, oh and he will tell a coupla thousand people
"Pack ya bags. Your going to Iraq. Might want to say goodbye to your family- you may die."

That is what he will contribute to this war. He isn't stopping anything- and he is managing to act like he is a bigshot, just because he is crawling up Bush's arse.. and giving out a few orders because he can.

I hate terrorists as much as the next person- but I also hate Howard for acting like he is doing something good for Australia and protecting the country- when really he is just giving out a few orders because he can.. and because he is scared of Bush.

The people who are really protecting Australia are the ones who are in Iraq- they are hte people that people on here should stand up for {I mean Australian Soldiers- Not Sadaam or anyone who likes Sadaam} Not John Howard- John Howard is doing shi* all for this country..

And spare me:
"Not like you are going to Iraq"
Because I don't f'n care for that, I am not the one who said we should have a war, I am not someone who wants a war, and nor do I see the point in having a war when it would be just as easy to find Sadaam when he is having a press conference or interview or somtehing and shoot him..

Go Roos

myee8 · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by Goo
Something akin to THIS I would imagine....

Gee, thas pretty full on. Just be thankful everyone that we live in a country that allows you to protest at all unlike Iraq.

Originally posted by Bluey
They don't need to have people run around with bombs strapped to them, or fly planes into building. They have the technology to do that remotely. And far more inaccurately.

Shouldn't be more accurately? I mean we are talking about things like flying planes into buildings, which deliberately target innocents where the US and its allies are trying to prevent civilian casualties.

daddy_4_eyes · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by tashibatts
I don't neccesarily think Howard is a bad leader, I just think he is weak and pathetic. He is so far up Bush's ar$e it isnt funny and he is happily sendin thousands of people to Iraq to risk their lives while he sits around in Australia surrounded by security guards & what not.. and he is happy to go to war- others aren't happy about war- but u know why? Because Howard has all those security guards, if he had a tomato thrown at him, he wouldnt care because his security guards would just deal with hte person who threw it or stand in front of him so he didnt get hit.

..................

As I said- he is weak.

Go Roos

Pretty stupid argument. You think Howard is winning any votes with this war? You think he(or his party) stands much chance of being re-elected? He is doing what he believes is best for his country, and that is establishing strong relations with two world powers in the US and UK. He is securing Australia military protection from the US and UK (and indirectly that of the UN) as well as opening new economic relations with the US who are renowned for their unfair trade (yet constantly preach freedom of trade).

Despite what the media and tree-hugging hippies say, Howard is doing a damn good job of being a Prime Minister.

Having said that, I don't agree with the war on Iraq. Why start war where peace exists?

myee8 · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
... Having said that, I don't agree with the war on Iraq. Why start war where peace exists?

Who says there is peace in Iraq before the war? Without freedom there is no peace - and a lot of Iraqis do not have freedom.

Dry Rot · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by myee8
Who says there is peace in Iraq before the war? Without freedom there is no peace - and a lot of Iraqis do not have freedom.

Yes, good question to ask a Kurd in Northern Iraq.

daddy_4_eyes · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by myee8
Who says there is peace in Iraq before the war? Without freedom there is no peace - and a lot of Iraqis do not have freedom.

Lift the sanctions and half the humanitarian problems in Iraq would be solved. Its the isolation from the rest of the world imposed on them by the US thats imprisoning the Iraqi people. I'm sure Saddam can really feel the impact of the sanctions inside the luxury confines of his numerous palaces.

dreamkillers · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by myee8
Who says there is peace in Iraq before the war? Without freedom there is no peace - and a lot of Iraqis do not have freedom.

Do you really see that changing much in the future.......the war may not last long but the struggle for Iraqi people will go on for years and decades as varying extreme groups fight for power.......

Dry Rot · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by dreamkillers
Do you really see that changing much in the future.......

No, but I do expect cheaper petrol.

myee8 · Mar 20, 2003

Fair points there you three. Dry Rot, a lot of Iraqis are indeed being hard done by and oprossed(sp.?) due to Saddam, who is smoking his cigars in those palaces of his. D4E, i spose it is a very good idea the US should lift its sanctions after the war, and get the humatarian branch of the UN in to help sort things out. Dreamkillers, i spose you can say at least the Iraqis are free of Saddam and the process of a new government can start. I see Saddam leaving as a hope that the Iraqis can hold on to to pull thru what they have gone thru. I do hope those Iraqi dissidents and exiled Iraqis have some idea on what to do governemnt wise in the post Saddam era. Pretty complicated problem we have on our hands isn't it?

Rupert Holmes · Mar 20, 2003

Originally posted by goaldrush
Nope. The funny thing is that I like John Howard and George Bush. I am loyal to these two people. They have the guts and the determination to go ahead and handle the war on Iraq and terrorism with ease.

It means that the people who are against the war means that they are against everything that the australian government has done.

If you are against the war we will be attacked by terrorists. That's why there is a war against it. We want to prevent terrorism. So give them a taste of their own medicine and bomb them and kill the terrorists and the governments that condone it.

Yes, you just really have to admire the depth of political sophistication in that comment, don't you.........

myee8 · Mar 21, 2003

Originally posted by Rupert Holmes
Yes, you just really have to admire the depth of political sophistication in that comment, don't you.........

Ever wondered why people criticise me for having swipes at Suzi all the time??

dreamkillers · Mar 21, 2003

Originally posted by myee8
Dreamkillers, i spose you can say at least the Iraqis are free of Saddam and the process of a new government can start. I see Saddam leaving as a hope that the Iraqis can hold on to to pull thru what they have gone thru. I do hope those Iraqi dissidents and exiled Iraqis have some idea on what to do governemnt wise in the post Saddam era. Pretty complicated problem we have on our hands isn't it?

Whilst I agree getting rid of Saddam has it's good points the coalition of the willing will have to be in Iraq for the long term to ensure another Saddam type (or even worse) doesn't take hold. With so many extreme views and groups in the country there could be some worrying times ahead if the US stay consistent with their ways of the past when supposedly freeing other nations around the globe.......

PAfolwr · Mar 21, 2003

Originally posted by Dry Rot
Yes, good question to ask a Kurd in Northern Iraq.

Or a Kurd in other countries. Or other minorities found in many countries.
The question I have is why Iraq and why now?

When the first Iraq war happened there was much talk about a "New World Order".
Since then we have found that it is really a "Selective New World Order".
This selective process seems to be dictated by a few Countries, and the one we side with all the time is the United States of America.

The only information that we have been given that so far are fact are:
Saddam is a Despot.
Saddam is not linked with El Quaeda, not even bush has stated that with any conviction.
Saddam has been avoiding compliance with the various resolutions as much as possible.
Not one inspector, current or former, seems to think that war is the answer. They are the experts, and that includes at least one Australian.
If this war had the backing of the United Nations, there would not be much opposition to it neither here nor in the United Kingdom. It does not, and because of that, this war is probably illegal.
Howard is irrelevant in the scheme of things, he is just doing what he is told.
These are about the only certain facts that we have so far.

carn_the_nmfc · Mar 21, 2003

The worst thing about the war is that it was televised and broadcasted on every radio station and tv station. How depressing

jefffff34 · Mar 21, 2003

Originally posted by goaldrush
The worst thing about the war is that it was televised and broadcasted on every radio station and tv station. How depressing

Wouldn't the worst thing be the killing of innocent people?

Diego · Mar 21, 2003

Originally posted by goaldrush
The worst thing about the war is that it was televised and broadcasted on every radio station and tv station. How depressing

Simple really. Read a book...oh thats right your brain hasn't got that capacity.

myee8 · Mar 21, 2003

Originally posted by Frosties_Flank
Simple really. Read a book...oh thats right your brain hasn't got that capacity.

Or go on bigfooty!

carn_the_nmfc · Mar 21, 2003

FF I have got more of a brain than you do

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War has started

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