Wasn't there an APL thread?

[Royal Flush]

Sorry couldn't find it.

Anyway it has been three years since I played APL. Yesterday I thought I'd give it a go for the hell of it.

First had I limp with QJ.
Flop J, A, 7
I check then call the rasie.
Turn is a Q.
I raise about 600 when the blinds are 25/50, total starting stack is about 2800.

Insta call.
river is a 3.
I just make a mini 200 raise expecting to be re-raised because I made a p$ss weak raise, worried about K10 maybe.
He calls and shows A3, two pairs.

Then I hear this talk at the table about how Q8 is a good hand, A anything is good.
I'm think geez.

Old mate next to me bets at a flop that hits an A. Im about to fold and i say to him did you hit your ace. He says pay if you want top know. I just fold knowing he has Ace 6.

Show down he has A7 and was hoping for more callers. I look and think gee I get worried when I hit an ace with a Jack kicker.


Anyway I get bullets and triple up.

After the break everybody gets their 1500 chip up plus 2k for spending $10 at the venue.

After the break I'm chip leader with about 6-7k in chips.
Not a game you can bluff at because very hand turns out to be a show down.
I fold a few orbits, before you know it blinds are 500-1000. Avearge stack is about 3-4 k. My "big stack" of 6 k is basically fold or move all in at least after the the flop. I do with A 9 suited, LOL get called by J3, who pairs with the 3.

LOL I cant believe I ever enjoyed this game. Theres not much room for good play.
It's about playing marginal hands and hoping you hit all the way to the end. Blinds go way to fast, starting stacks are low.
But I guess thats why its free poker.


Or maybe Ring/cash games are the only way for me to play?

 

[paxmaniac]

"The Pub Poker thread"

 

[ashley12]

I understand the frustrations that sometimes come with playing poker with beginners, not good players. The problems are twofold.

1) Tournaments are run generally over a 3 hour period. When the fact that most dealing and decisions made are pretty slow and tedious, plus the "il act in a second, Im just getting my pint" means that the tournaments have very few hands played. This of course increases the luck factor, plus the requirement of getting this things done by a certain time means that the blind structure is pretty crap, which happened at our last State Finals, where because we only had a 6 hour licence, the tournament quite quickly turned into a crapshoot (the big stack at the final table started with 6 BB's). Trying to get a 539 player tournament over in 6hrs including breaks isnt easy.

2) Its fun and social, and is advertised where beginners can come and play. Obviously they arent going to be able to know exactly when the have fold equity in their shoves and what ranges a nitty TAG opens with UTG+1 compared to the CO or button. Its supposed to be fun, laugh whether you win or lose etc... and enjoy the conversation and a few drinks while playing some cards.

Basically, like I hear from a lot of players who suffer a few bad beats, etc.... is that "you cant play poker against these fish, fish you cant bluff etc..." and that they could be higher skilled players is a crock of shit. They are better players for a reason. Maybe over the first few hands but after that. Including the guy who said he would destory Gus Hansen heads up because he would call down every bet because he never has it... Then after 15 minutes when Gus realises you are a station and then makes uber thin value bets and bluffs less....

Basically if you want to play at a higher level the casino is that way and Stars/Full Tilt over there...

 

[The Filth Wizard]

I guess a lot of it comes down to the venue.

I play weekly at my local here in Sydney, probably no more than 60 runners a night. The good thing is, there is rarely a new face, you can sit at any table and walk into at least one bloke that says "Oh no, not you" and lasting table respect is easy to gain as a result.

Sure, you get the odd monkey, but the final table is usually made up of familiar faces.

 

[Stubbyholder]

I guess a lot of it comes down to the venue.

I play weekly at my local here in Sydney, probably no more than 60 runners a night. The good thing is, there is rarely a new face, you can sit at any table and walk into at least one bloke that says "Oh no, not you" and lasting table respect is easy to gain as a result.

Sure, you get the odd monkey, but the final table is usually made up of familiar faces.

This is exactly how I find my local venue as well.

Plus I love

- the chipping up for buying beer

- Gets me away from the missus and kids for 3 hours

- Is a fun social night

 

[Royal Flush]

ohh look I take your point about it being fun. When I started playing three years ago it was. Most of the frienships I have are ex-APL and we all have our own cash/ring games, which is good.

I suppose the point was I wanted to get a feel for tournament poker again. I play ring and cash games online, privately and at the casinos. (from time to time)

But being a Sunday night I didn't want to stay up late. When I do play I play for 8 hours at a time at least.

My point about APL was I questioned the blind structures and stating stacks. The blinds seemed un proportionatly high for the size of starting stacks.

Therefore by default becoming a shoot out on everyhand you play.
Its been years so i forgot about that element.
I take your point about skill, a friend of mine won 16 tournaments in the APL. That is a sh#t load (when it first started), so I do take the skill/luck factor into consideration.

Maybe I have just developed into a better player since then.The last time I played I was chasing first spot in qld for state finals. I knew top 10 would qualify but i wanted to be number 1. I got of to a good start at the start of the week with a tourny win. I played as many games as I could that week with a strategy. I think I finished the week, second pipped by an Asian dude on the Gold Coast. ANyway the point is there is a certain way you need to play to win consistently. But I cant help but think that the blind/stack ratio prehibits that quite a bit.

 

[ashley12]

It varies from state to state with the initial starting stacks but all freeleague tournaments in WA the starting bank is 2000, plus 1000 for making the break in WA plus 1000 for using the spend card by supporting the venue buying food, drinks etc... Blinds start at 25/50 with 15 minute levels, about 8-10 hands a level depending on the table. While this may seem a bit harsh, it isnt that outrageous compared to a standard turbo event online. The main issue is that later in the night the blinds are still usually doubling at a time rather then slow increments. This is because we need the nights finishing around the same time each night, usually about 10-10:30 each night. Overall it has flaws, but the game is purely about the poker, I would put it more about 30% poker and 70% the fun of a night out with a few drinks and friendly competition with mates. For those more serious about it, there are bigger events with deeper buy-ins and as well as that events such as the Wild Turkey Grandslam (500k prizepool) as well as Aus Poker Hero (see the other thread) where tickets are won through playing APL.

Basically I think the issue is that you are looking purely for a poker experience rather then just a night out. A similar example would be going to a nightclub and complaining about some of the music. If you wanted just your own type of music, sit at home or go to a concert... but the nightclub offers music as well as a night out.... APL is similar, while the standard isnt as great as online or at the cas, its a viable alternative to just sitting in front of a computer all day or blowing a paycheck at the casino...

 

[red+black]

Wasn't there an APL thread?

Sorry couldn't find it.

1. Go to Poker Forum F.A.Q. - please read and refer back to
2. Scroll down to Live Poker, Australian Poker League (APL)

But perhaps the old and new pub poker threads need a little clean-up

 

[ashley12]

Your the mod, you do it...

 

[Royal Flush]

It Overall it has flaws, but the game is purely about the poker, I would put it more about 30% poker and 70% the fun of a night out with a few drinks and friendly competition with mates. For those more serious about it, there are bigger events with deeper buy-ins and as well as that events such as the Wild Turkey Grandslam (500k prizepool) as well as Aus Poker Hero (see the other thread) where tickets are won through playing APL.

quote]
I get your point again. But the irony is that by playing APL "for fun" you can win tickets to wild turkey and Aus poker hero.
So I guess these people playing 30% for the poker experience and 70% for the socializing and drinking don't really care if they happen to win consistently and qualify through APL for these major tournaments? They're really out to have a few drinks and socialize- pool table=Poker table?

I dont really buy that line, but I suspect the APL has this approach when selling their product to potential venues. I understand that.

At the end of the day I discovered poker through APL.

 

[ashley12]

Different people will get something different out of APL. Some for the catching up with friends who like a drink and cards, some for the ego of beating people in free poker (these kind of people do exist) and some for the challenge etc... Basically its about catering for a number of different people...

The prizes for the bigger events and the events themselves are basically giving an incentive to those a bit more serious about their poker to stay playing APL, compared to NPL, online etc...

The analogy of poker table = pool table has a lot of merit, some will get competitive, some will hit in giggle, somtimes serious comps etc... Whatever floats your boat really...

 

[Royal Flush]

Different people will get something different out of APL. Some for the catching up with friends who like a drink and cards, some for the ego of beating people in free poker (these kind of people do exist) and some for the challenge etc... Basically its about catering for a number of different people...

The prizes for the bigger events and the events themselves are basically giving an incentive to those a bit more serious about their poker to stay playing APL, compared to NPL, online etc...

The analogy of poker table = pool table has a lot of merit, some will get competitive, some will hit in giggle, somtimes serious comps etc... Whatever floats your boat really...

But it's not really a format suited for "serious" players is it?

 

[ashley12]

I wouldnt say its not a format for serious players, but it certainly isnt a postflop game. There are a lot of people who can take it seriously, competitive etc... it just has a turbo, shortstack structure where strategy is more preflop then postflop... when effective stacks get <10BB's its definately a preflop game. This isnt a bad thing, as lots of players take hyperturbo's online pretty seriously and make decent profits from maximising small edges...

 

[Cartman121]

I wouldnt say its not a format for serious players, but it certainly isnt a postflop game. There are a lot of people who can take it seriously, competitive etc... it just has a turbo, shortstack structure where strategy is more preflop then postflop... when effective stacks get <10BB's its definately a preflop game. This isnt a bad thing, as lots of players take hyperturbo's online pretty seriously and make decent profits from maximising small edges...

Mad-tilt tournaments on the OnGame network.

Starting stack 100, insta 100 add-on. Blinds 10/20, increase every 3 minutes. Sounds like a complete crapshoot but I assure you they're not, love playing them and usually do very well. Gotta know your shove range/timing pre-flop inside and out, it's amazing how many people will fold on the BB for 90% of their stack, or limp-fold to a shove, just limping is bad enough, folding pre getting huge odds etc etc. these small edges/mistakes from opponents make it a really profitable game - and alot of fun. My mates still don't believe me that there's any skill involved though.

 

[dUkezz]

i used to play pub poker 1-2 nights a week, now i havnt played for about 5 months and counting and the main reason was that the idea of chipping up for spending money just turned me off... dont get me wrong its good that the venues are holding the tournys and that but it got ridiculous, some tournys i played towards the end of my time were people going all in, bust, buy a beer, rebuy, all in, bust rebuy etc... was not poker to me anymore... anyways some people have differnet oppinions on this but thats just my point of view

 

[ashley12]

Not sure of the format in other pub leagues, but within APL in WA the spendcard rebuy is only for the first 4 levels and gets used once for an extra 1000 chips. Its basically just a guarantee that the venue gets some money back to cover costs. Its effectively a tournament with 1R or add-on... Also if you have travelled a fair distance for a tournament and get busted first hand its a second chance...

 

[Cartman121]

At the pub in Doncaster you can add-on $11k extra worth of chips from buying food/drinks. Meal wil get you $2k, most beers $1k but some $2k so the starting stacks for most are usually at about $10k - so basically unless you run like god you're going to have to purchase some food/drinks to do well.

 

[DockersMad]

I'm a live play virgin so I thought an APL tourney would be a nice soft entry. In Sydney for a few days and tonight is cherry popping time at The Bowlers Club.

Extra chips for buying beer sounds awesome.

 

[Drummer_19]

i used to play pub poker 1-2 nights a week, now i havnt played for about 5 months and counting and the main reason was that the idea of chipping up for spending money just turned me off... dont get me wrong its good that the venues are holding the tournys and that but it got ridiculous, some tournys i played towards the end of my time were people going all in, bust, buy a beer, rebuy, all in, bust rebuy etc... was not poker to me anymore... anyways some people have differnet oppinions on this but thats just my point of view

So it was exactly like the $3 rebuy on stars with 15 minutes left untill the first break?